Didn't The_Jamal say much the same thing? I think he lasted thirty-six hours?
[Grades] Grades v. Nuggets 1/26/2014
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
I pointed out 1 absolutely asinine comment about IT being our worst pick the last 3 years. Sue me
Smart fish don't bite.
Chubbs
Starter
And how the **** do you know that may I ask? They kept him on the bench even when he was clearly outperforming the starter. Since no one has actually said anything about him on the record, I think that speaks loudly.
Denver announcers seemed pretty down on him I may add.
Malone would bench him if he could.
No he wouldn't. Why couldn't he bench him? I thought he was the head coach?
Chubbs
Starter
Well he let slip the only reason he's playing Jimmer is showcasing him. Wouldn't be shocked if the same is going on with our other "pg."
Not so sure he's calling all the shots here. Hands also tied since we have no one else ready to play at he position.
I don't buy that; he's the head coach. If he wanted to play someone else (read: McCallum), he could.
Same thinking we've had here the past 3+ years...scoring is sexy. Too bad it hardly results in wins, because the other team decides to play defense when it matters most.
They did praise our team on the ability to get people open for screens.
As far as IT goes, they were pretty blunt, but accurate. I don't know that they said anything new, but it was interesting to hear it from a source not attached to the team.
- He can score in bunches. Compared him to Nate Robinson in this regard, but noted that IT might be more polished offensively.
- Teams let him score, because he won't often get others involved. Several times they noted that he's not giving up the ball if he thinks he sees daylight. IT missed BMac cutting around a curl 6 ft from the rim to then himself drive into traffic.
Chubbs
Starter
I think coaches have less power than anyone in the nba.
It's not GMs and owners changing every season.
That can't be right: I have it on Good Authority™ that everyone loves Isaiah Thomas, except for the posters on this message board... and only us.
Could he, though? Do we know if McCallum is ready for minutes? I'd like to find out. It's curious that he brought out McCallum for defense, then subbed him out knowing that IT was just going to go coast to coast to try and score. Why not give him some minutes at the start of the 4th? How bad would it be if he paired him with Jimmer for a spell? I know about "inviting worse", but we just gave up 125 points.
In my gut of guts, I have to believe that IT is being showcased, for financial reasons. Teams likely want him for a scoring punch, but can't send anything of value in return. If IT does well enough, you'll likely get that return value that you're looking for.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Get a life. Two games doesn't show anything. Based on your logic, the last two games showed Cousins and Gay are injury prone.
No owner or general manager is going to tell the coach to not play someone, because they then wouldn't be able to find any coach who'd be willing to work for them. If a general manager didn't want a player to play, he'd just trade/waive them.
I don't really think that the question of whether or not McCallum is ready has much to do with the question of whether or not someone higher up is stopping Malone from playing him, which is the only actual explanation for why Malone couldn't play him.
Nice.
Two games of the IT show didn't show anything new. They just magnified what we've seen in the past few years.
Padrino
All-Star
i think these last two losses should be very illuminating for kings fans. the kings were without their two best players, which gives both the organization and the fans an opportunity to evaluate the talent level around the team's two best players, if the idea is to move forward with a core of cousins/gay. that said, what is it that we see? largely, this is a very young team full of jump shooters who damn near refuse to play defense with any measure of commitment or consistency. at some point, the offense-only approach just has to fall by the wayside if the kings ever want a shot at getting to the playoffs and, more importantly, competing in the playoffs...
demarcus cousins is proving to be a much sturdier man-defender than most could have foreseen. rudy gay is a fairly average defender, but i believe he could be pushed to greater heights on that side of the ball, given his length and athleticism. still, neither is a terribly convincing two-way player. if the assumption is that cousins and gay represent the core of this rebuild or retool or reboot or whatever you want to call it, then we have to take their defensive shortcomings into account, which means that the remainder of the starting unit and the bench must be filled out with much stronger defenders (preferably veteran talent) than the kings currently possess. there is no way of getting around that fact. some pieces have to go. some fans will be upset in the process...
questions abound of the talent surrounding cousins and gay: is isaiah thomas the greatest value for a 60th pick in the entire history of the nba? yeah, absolutely. but he's also undersized as a starting PG, and he remains a tremendous defensive liability. can the kings live with a "big three" that is this weak, defensively? is jason thompson shaping into an adequate defender? yeah, i think so. but adequate isn't really cutting it anymore, is it? is derrick williams becoming a worthy contributor and human highlight reel? yup, but as yet another non-shot blocker in the kings' big man rotation, does his offensive production really matter? is carl landry becoming irrelevant to the kings future plans? i don't know, but he's certainly just one more offensively-inclined player that's been thrown on the pile now that he's returned from injury...
is marcus thornton once again proving his value as a streak scorer and scrappy defender when pushed on the more important side of the ball? yeah, i think we can say that he's come back to the land of the living. but can he maintain this level of confidence in reduced minutes or in an eventual bench role? is ben mclemore showing signs of life after last night's game? perhaps. but can the kings afford to wait for him to develop into a more consistent offensive player and even a remotely consistent defensive player? and more questions still abound: do these pieces fit? can they fit? or is it just an exercise in attempting to shove square pegs into round holes?
i certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but i know this: if the kings want to get serious about competing for a playoff spot next season, then the acquisition of veteran defensive personnel remains an absolute must. and it's not as if a franchise can perpetually add to the equation. subtraction is part of the process. so who goes? thornton? landry? thompson? williams? mclemore? thomas? i suspect that trading one guy won't be enough. i also suspect that at least half of those names will no longer be with the sacramento kings by the time they're in a position to earn a playoff spot. defense matters, and the kings don't have it...
demarcus cousins is proving to be a much sturdier man-defender than most could have foreseen. rudy gay is a fairly average defender, but i believe he could be pushed to greater heights on that side of the ball, given his length and athleticism. still, neither is a terribly convincing two-way player. if the assumption is that cousins and gay represent the core of this rebuild or retool or reboot or whatever you want to call it, then we have to take their defensive shortcomings into account, which means that the remainder of the starting unit and the bench must be filled out with much stronger defenders (preferably veteran talent) than the kings currently possess. there is no way of getting around that fact. some pieces have to go. some fans will be upset in the process...
questions abound of the talent surrounding cousins and gay: is isaiah thomas the greatest value for a 60th pick in the entire history of the nba? yeah, absolutely. but he's also undersized as a starting PG, and he remains a tremendous defensive liability. can the kings live with a "big three" that is this weak, defensively? is jason thompson shaping into an adequate defender? yeah, i think so. but adequate isn't really cutting it anymore, is it? is derrick williams becoming a worthy contributor and human highlight reel? yup, but as yet another non-shot blocker in the kings' big man rotation, does his offensive production really matter? is carl landry becoming irrelevant to the kings future plans? i don't know, but he's certainly just one more offensively-inclined player that's been thrown on the pile now that he's returned from injury...
is marcus thornton once again proving his value as a streak scorer and scrappy defender when pushed on the more important side of the ball? yeah, i think we can say that he's come back to the land of the living. but can he maintain this level of confidence in reduced minutes or in an eventual bench role? is ben mclemore showing signs of life after last night's game? perhaps. but can the kings afford to wait for him to develop into a more consistent offensive player and even a remotely consistent defensive player? and more questions still abound: do these pieces fit? can they fit? or is it just an exercise in attempting to shove square pegs into round holes?
i certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but i know this: if the kings want to get serious about competing for a playoff spot next season, then the acquisition of veteran defensive personnel remains an absolute must. and it's not as if a franchise can perpetually add to the equation. subtraction is part of the process. so who goes? thornton? landry? thompson? williams? mclemore? thomas? i suspect that trading one guy won't be enough. i also suspect that at least half of those names will no longer be with the sacramento kings by the time they're in a position to earn a playoff spot. defense matters, and the kings don't have it...
randymoss1881
Starter
I think mclemore is gonna become an elite defender sooner rather than later. He has all the athletisicm you need and he goes all out in that end, he just needs to get better on his team defense he gives up a lot of 3s on tgat area
Late in the game Williams stopped Chandler's penetration rather easily, when he got into the low stance from the start of the possession. Defensive effort is still very inconsistent, or, I should rather say, is lacking more often than not. Team would really benefit from defensive captain like Doug or Ron were.
jcassio
Starter
Good points. I only maybe disagree in that I think we still have room for a couple of offensive contributors in addition to Gay/Cuz, but just not in the starting five. And right now, we've obviously got too much offensive talent and not enough d talent. If Ben can develop both sides of his game (offense and d), he may become the perfect addition. I think Ray also shows signs that he can develop on both sides as well, but he has so little experience thus far that only a fool would predict his future with any certainty. I think both of them should be getting minutes next year, but limited minutes while we make the push for a playoff spot. Better still, let's give Ray some regular minutes in the second half this year and see if he has a role going forward. IT should either be our 6th man next year or play for someone else. To go from starting PG to 6th man is usually seen as a step down (from the player's POV), but IT would be more valuable to a playoff bound team as the instant-offense-off-the-bench-pizza-guy that suits his natural playing style. If he wants to prove that he can be worthy of a starting PG spot on a playoff team, then he'd better use the second half of the season to start showing that be can be a more effective distributor and a more consistent defender. A gunner who averages 6 assists per game does not make a starting PG on a playoff team unless they are playing next to an MJ or a Kobe.
Padrino
All-Star
well there should certainly be other contributors on offense in addition to demarcus cousins and rudy gay. my point was simply that this team leans so ridiculously towards the offensive side of the ball that, at some point, exchanges need to be made that prioritize the defensive side of the ball, even if it comes at the expense of overall offensive production. right now, the kings need cousins, gay, and isaiah thomas to be as efficient as they've been, offensively, because the kings don't stop the opposition from scoring often enough to justify inefficiency from their so-called "big three."
however, a stronger defensive kings team could absorb the loss of, say, isaiah thomas via trade. with cousins and gay already in place, you don't need a player like IT who puts up 20 a night if you can hold opposing teams under 100 ppg. it's just going to require guts on the part of the kings' front office to say, "all right, enough is enough. i don't care how many points we can score per game. i want us to be able to stop somebody. let's make some calls and leverage our offensive talent to gain what we simply do not have on the defensive side of the ball."
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Get a life? Is that personal?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Nice.
Two games of the IT show didn't show anything new. They just magnified what we've seen in the past few years.
Didn't I say this before I was told that griping about IT is uninspired? The spotlight is on IT now with Gay and Cuz hurt. He doesn't look good under the spotlight. He can be stopped. People shoot over him at will. He frequently makes brain numbing plays. At least the issue of IT is easier to discuss as criticism can no longer be deflected. I shouldn't have said that as the best can deflect anything.
jcassio
Starter
That's why I said "maybe disagree." Turns out there is nothing to disagree on. We need to get better defensively if we are to become what everyone agrees we want to become. Too much offense and not enough d is for exhibition basketball.
Two things.
Backup PG, Fredette has had lots of minutes and I think we know what to expect from that. Two of the solutions discussed on here have been to acquire Miller and to play Ray M. Each implies trading or demoting Jimmer. I'd lean towards Ray. If that were the choice, how would you go?
The last two games. We were competitive in both. Could have won them. In three areas little tweaks could have done it: defense- just a couple good defensive plays, or turnovers- just avoiding a couple of the most ridiculous, or team management (IT)- just 2 to 4 minutes at critical times (like the end of the game) could have tilted the game in our favor. Maybe just one of those improvements could have done it. It seems like it was doable.
Backup PG, Fredette has had lots of minutes and I think we know what to expect from that. Two of the solutions discussed on here have been to acquire Miller and to play Ray M. Each implies trading or demoting Jimmer. I'd lean towards Ray. If that were the choice, how would you go?
The last two games. We were competitive in both. Could have won them. In three areas little tweaks could have done it: defense- just a couple good defensive plays, or turnovers- just avoiding a couple of the most ridiculous, or team management (IT)- just 2 to 4 minutes at critical times (like the end of the game) could have tilted the game in our favor. Maybe just one of those improvements could have done it. It seems like it was doable.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
getting harder and harder to defend Isaiah after every game i see
Glenn
Hall of Famer
It actually IS getting quieter and quieter. I enjoy debate to a certain extent, I love goofiness, and generally like to educate or challenge people to think. IT has killed all of that.
King Baller
All-Star
A contender would love to have a sixth man like IT if their bench is not currently strong.
I think Pete is shopping for an elite Defensive PF or a staring quality PG. I'm guessing IT and any combination of players not named Cousins or Gay would be included. I think D. Will and Ray are here for awhile unless they make or break the deal.
KB
I think Pete is shopping for an elite Defensive PF or a staring quality PG. I'm guessing IT and any combination of players not named Cousins or Gay would be included. I think D. Will and Ray are here for awhile unless they make or break the deal.
KB
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