[Grades] Grades v. Nets 3/9/2014

[Glenn]

The Big Three is a joke. The only unreplaceble player we have is Cuz. I really would not like to lose Rudy and I hope he would be content with a salary less or equal to what Cousins gets for a variety of reasons. I continue to wonder if IT is actually hurting us. I know darn near everybody at the least thinks he should be a 6th man but is a player who has trouble with the team concept, although improving, who plays little if any defense belong on a team coached by Malone?

I would love to see Malone handed some defensive players. He can only go so far in teaching defense to people who have thought of this idea, up until now I hope, as something foreign. Malone may have some skills in teaching offense but to this point hasn't had enough team stability to demonstrate much of anything. I will assume offense is not a strong point in his coaching. Let's get him some defenders. We are asking Malone to go to war with one hand tied behind his back.

There is something major missing from this team if the so called Big Three functioning at their best can only get us to a .500 record. Perhaps a bit of time together and stability in the lineup would be a huge start. I hope we then can move on up from .500.

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

This team has CANCER written all over it. It is stage 4 and metastasis has taken place. Can we survive? Maybe, with the right treatment and reducing our tumor size, we can cure ours ailment.

It all starts with the draft. If we get another star player from the draft, we have potential. If we can re-sign IT to a 6th man contract and give him 30+ minutes in games where he's not run off the court by an opposing 6'6 PG....yeah.
We do need to find a starting PG, though. How hard would it be to get Lowry once the season is over? I'd assume he wants 10+ million?

Carl Landry, JT, D-Will, Outlaw, Gray, Acy, and the rest of the chums need to go. Not a single of them are useful besides possibly Reggie Evans who at least is a hustle and bustle type of player that can get you defensive rebounds when Big Cuz is on the bench. However, Big Cuz and Evans should never be on the floor together. We need a rim protector which Evans clearly is not.

McCallum is an interesting player. I don't think he has a lot of upside; however, I do think that he can be a solid back-up PG who is a very complete player overall. Unfortunately, if we re-sign IT to 6th man and eventually sign a starting PG (Which we need to really bad) then he will most likely be traded away as he'd become a bench warmer.

It's a sad time for Kings fans. I think we should have just flopped the season (not intentionally) but by not signing Rudy Gay. I think we could have re-signed IT to a 6th man contract or at least traded him for a draft pick (mid 1st rounder) and signed Kyle Lowry in the off-season, drafted a top 3 pick such as Wiggins or Parker, and let Ben Mac develop with less pressure. This whole "win now" mentally is total nonsense. This is where this "win now" has gotten us--nowhere.

Solution: Tough to say. All I know is that next season there has to be a lot of moves made. We need to let go or trade all of the expirings and make sure we don't end up getting another Landry in return. 6 million?!?! Jesus man what a waste. We just got rid of Thornton (thankfully, despite his performance tonight) and got a couple expirings for next season which will be interesting considering it's a big free agent summer. We need to hope that Ben Mac shows at least some kind of improvement this summer and next season. If he stays the same player that he is now (clueless) then we need to package him and IT for a good D & 3 SG or a pass first PG assuming we have Gay still at a depreciated Value.

Anyhow, I for one cannot wait for the draft. Of all these years, I think this draft is one that will have the biggest influence. You get a guy like Vonleh who might turn into a potential Garnett or Webber and you have yourself 2 monster big men in Vonleh and Cousins. Get a pass first PG and the rest is really not essential. We just need one consistent outside shooter. Look at the Spurs, they live on the 3 point land. Shame we let Jimmer go because of that 1 reason.

 

[KingMilz]

If the plan is to build around Cousins we need to get one other long term talent in this upcoming draft whoever they may be and just bring in tough veteran players. IT/Gay/Cousins is only good as a really short term thing it can't work in the long run they all stop the ball and none of them work hard on defence and all have highly questionable basketball IQ's/work ethics.

We can't keep doing this crap we have done for the past 7 years, we got way to many soft players like Williams/Gay/JT who also have limited IQ's it just kill's us every game there is no ball movement (I can't remember when we had a good passing sequence that had more than 3 passes) and when that occurs players become disinterested and quit much like MT did and much like Williams is doing now.

Thomas unless he going to be a willing sixth man really has no place here I would not mind completely blowing this team if you have to queston a team's effort game in game out that means the "culture" has not changed it's still the same crap. I would rather have a team with limited talent with amazing chemistry and hustle (current Bulls) than a team supposedly full of talent that you know you can never rely on to give you a consistant effort.

 

[Tetsujin]

This team has CANCER written all over it. It is stage 4 and metastasis has taken place. Can we survive? Maybe, with the right treatment and reducing our tumor size, we can cure ours ailment.

It all starts with the draft. If we get another star player from the draft, we have potential. If we can re-sign IT to a 6th man contract and give him 30+ minutes in games where he's not run off the court by an opposing 6'6 PG....yeah.
We do need to find a starting PG, though. How hard would it be to get Lowry once the season is over? I'd assume he wants 10+ million?

Carl Landry, JT, D-Will, Outlaw, Gray, Acy, and the rest of the chums need to go. Not a single of them are useful besides possibly Reggie Evans who at least is a hustle and bustle type of player that can get you defensive rebounds when Big Cuz is on the bench. However, Big Cuz and Evans should never be on the floor together. We need a rim protector which Evans clearly is not.

McCallum is an interesting player. I don't think he has a lot of upside; however, I do think that he can be a solid back-up PG who is a very complete player overall. Unfortunately, if we re-sign IT to 6th man and eventually sign a starting PG (Which we need to really bad) then he will most likely be traded away as he'd become a bench warmer.

It's a sad time for Kings fans. I think we should have just flopped the season (not intentionally) but by not signing Rudy Gay. I think we could have re-signed IT to a 6th man contract or at least traded him for a draft pick (mid 1st rounder) and signed Kyle Lowry in the off-season, drafted a top 3 pick such as Wiggins or Parker, and let Ben Mac develop with less pressure. This whole "win now" mentally is total nonsense. This is where this "win now" has gotten us--nowhere.

Solution: Tough to say. All I know is that next season there has to be a lot of moves made. We need to let go or trade all of the expirings and make sure we don't end up getting another Landry in return. 6 million?!?! Jesus man what a waste. We just got rid of Thornton (thankfully, despite his performance tonight) and got a couple expirings for next season which will be interesting considering it's a big free agent summer. We need to hope that Ben Mac shows at least some kind of improvement this summer and next season. If he stays the same player that he is now (clueless) then we need to package him and IT for a good D & 3 SG or a pass first PG assuming we have Gay still at a depreciated Value.

Anyhow, I for one cannot wait for the draft. Of all these years, I think this draft is one that will have the biggest influence. You get a guy like Vonleh who might turn into a potential Garnett or Webber and you have yourself 2 monster big men in Vonleh and Cousins. Get a pass first PG and the rest is really not essential. We just need one consistent outside shooter. Look at the Spurs, they live on the 3 point land. Shame we let Jimmer go because of that 1 reason.

Uhhh maybe tone down the cancer talk just a tad there, buddy.

 

[Kingster]

Perfect symmetry for Thornton: he kills the Kings when he's on the team, and he kills the Kings when he's not on the team.

 

[ppine]

Congratulations to Marcus Thornton. He needed a change of scenery.
There was only one guy trying to stop the Nets on the break and it was IT.

The last couple of games the Kings' have been just going thru the motions. They aren't putting much effort into defense at all. Coach will not put up with it much longer and is probably lobbying for some defensive minded players.

The biggest losers around here are not the Kings' players. It is the snipping posters that can't see the talent that is here.
The Kings have gambled on Cousins and lost because he is not leadership material and you can't build a team around him.
The number two spot has turned into an embarrassment. Watching Thornton just confirmed it.
Fans giving players an F is inexcusable. People like Goldbrick should do something else in their spare time.
I will always follow the Kings but the forum has turned into a woe is me fest.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Fans giving players an F is inexcusable. People like Goldbrick should do something else in their spare time.

Welp, that's it! Close down the grades threads, the great ppine doesn't like them!

 

[pshn80]

The Nets started out swarming the ball handler and the ball and it worked. Shouldn't have quite so easily but lately it is our achillies heal. Get us in a deep hole early and sspphhtt, we're done leading for the whole game. We may have lost it before we became selfish. Anyway, we lost it. I don't even think Thornton had anything to do with it.

 

[Padrino]

The biggest losers around here are not the Kings' players. It is the snipping posters that can't see the talent that is here.
The Kings have gambled on Cousins and lost because he is not leadership material and you can't build a team around him.
The number two spot has turned into an embarrassment. Watching Thornton just confirmed it.
Fans giving players an F is inexcusable. People like Goldbrick should do something else in their spare time.
I will always follow the Kings but the forum has turned into a woe is me fest.

i like how these two sentiments appear within one line of each other...



and i'm assuming the "F" that's the most "inexcusable" to you belongs to one hustlin' husky, who certainly played at the level of an "F," but deserves special treatment because, as grant and jerry like to say, "it wasn't for lack of effort."

[/vomit]

 

[Padrino]

So, what you're trying to say is, it's Padrino's fault?

in my defense, i believe that i fully accomplished my duty to the Consortium; i fairly measured the performances of the players that i was assigned, while providing a pair of exceptional representatives for the night's theme. in this case, Brunettes of Popular HBO Series was my own mini-theme within the larger Pretty Girls framework. anything that may have been lost in translation is the responsibility of he who sits atop the Consortium as its chief moderator...

 

[Chubbs]

Congratulations to Marcus Thornton. He needed a change of scenery.
There was only one guy trying to stop the Nets on the break and it was IT.

The last couple of games the Kings' have been just going thru the motions. They aren't putting much effort into defense at all. Coach will not put up with it much longer and is probably lobbying for some defensive minded players.

The biggest losers around here are not the Kings' players. It is the snipping posters that can't see the talent that is here.
The Kings have gambled on Cousins and lost because he is not leadership material and you can't build a team around him.
The number two spot has turned into an embarrassment. Watching Thornton just confirmed it.
Fans giving players an F is inexcusable. People like Goldbrick should do something else in their spare time.
I will always follow the Kings but the forum has turned into a woe is me fest.

Oh Arturo, Prince of Irony.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

As much as Rudy Gay is a very nice player much of the time,...the fact that he "can" and probably will pull in 19 million next season, is just beyond comprehension

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Perfect symmetry for Thornton: he kills the Kings when he's on the team, and he kills the Kings when he's not on the team.

The explanation most likely, is that he just didn't like the team and the system. Once that feeling is there, it's pretty much over for most players. I wonder if that vibe is there for D-Will?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

BTW, if we're going to start a new point guard next season, please make it a proven veteran and not a rookie. Some reliable stability for a change

 

[kupman]

It is a long season for both the players and fans - not to mention the coaches. This season turned into a training camp season in December. Uber long training camps will grow tiresome on anyone.

But, do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. DMC, Gay and IT are 3 players that need to stay on this team. They all offer alot. Rudy really needs to stay with us. He is the best acquisition through a trade since Artest, or maybe even Webber. They need help - especially is the backcourt.

 

[Chubbs]

So, Isaiah has been beyond awful the last two games. Grades show it, results show it. A little pressure and he literally can't see to do anything. This is why I am on the record as saying we have zero chance in the playoffs with Isaiah as our starter. Makes it way too easy to stop us. Just put tall people on him. And it's game over. Can't beat the pressure, can't get into the offense.

Then he compounds it by being an indifferent defender. It's like the team has to swim up stream just to survive.

Over the last 10, Isaiah has 66 assists, and 42 turnovers. That's a 1.57 A/T. That, my friends, is terrible. In march, he's shooting .172 from 3.

Has the league adjusted? Is he wearing down? Either way, that cuts into his earning potential. If he wants to be a starter, it's an 82 game season. It's a grind. If he is physically unable due to his size, then the FO better be noticing.

 

[Kingster]

So, Isaiah has been beyond awful the last two games. Grades show it, results show it. A little pressure and he literally can't see to do anything. This is why I am on the record as saying we have zero chance in the playoffs with Isaiah as our starter. Makes it way too easy to stop us. Just put tall people on him. And it's game over. Can't beat the pressure, can't get into the offense.

Then he compounds it by being an indifferent defender. It's like the team has to swim up stream just to survive.

Over the last 10, Isaiah has 66 assists, and 42 turnovers. That's a 1.57 A/T. That, my friends, is terrible. In march, he's shooting .172 from 3.

Has the league adjusted? Is he wearing down? Either way, that cuts into his earning potential. If he wants to be a starter, it's an 82 game season. It's a grind. If he is physically unable due to his size, then the FO better be noticing.

I think the league has noticed that this is a "one pass" offense. Without side to side passing, they can load up on IT, or Gay for that matter. If they can pass from side to side for three or four times (Please see the Spurs!!) then it's so much easier for a guy like IT (or Gay) to make a play off the dribble because his man is then going to be one or two steps out of position and because it's virtually impossible to have an effective double team. Until they get side to side passing and movement without the ball, the offense will continue to underperform.

 

[CruzDude]

With rare credit to Jason Jones, his quote "Selfish play dooms Kings again" is becoming all too much the norm. Feeding it inside to Cuz then not moving to provide any outlets when he gets double and triple teamed is another issue. But trying to put a game on ones shoulders in a team style of play may look exciting for awhile, it attracts bystanders on the floor all too much. What else should they do? Several move like crazy around the court but rarely see the ball. Solution? Be patient (very difficult these days), experiment and wait for draft and summer league.

edit: Ahhh, just read SactownRoyalty (Kings are passing the ball less.....) and saw their table of assists and TO's as function of months Nov-Mar and WOW that chart says it all. Assists falling from 21.5 in Nov to 18.6 in Jan to 15.8 in March while in same period TO's go from 12.4 to 14.9 to 17.4 Ouch!!

 

[Glenn]

With rare credit to Jason Jones, his quote "Selfish play dooms Kings again" is becoming all too much the norm. Feeding it inside to Cuz then not moving to provide any outlets when he gets double and triple teamed is another issue. But trying to put a game on ones shoulders in a team style of play may look exciting for awhile, it attracts bystanders on the floor all too much. What else should they do? Several move like crazy around the court but rarely see the ball. Solution? Be patient (very difficult these days), experiment and wait for draft and summer league.

edit: Ahhh, just read SactownRoyalty (Kings are passing the ball less.....) and saw their table of assists and TO's as function of months Nov-Mar and WOW that chart says it all. Assists falling from 21.5 in Nov to 18.6 in Jan to 15.8 in March while in same period TO's go from 12.4 to 14.9 to 17.4 Ouch!!

Don't need advanced analytics here, do we? The "why" needs to be answered and addressed.

 

[Spike]

So, Isaiah has been beyond awful the last two games. Grades show it, results show it. A little pressure and he literally can't see to do anything. This is why I am on the record as saying we have zero chance in the playoffs with Isaiah as our starter. Makes it way too easy to stop us. Just put tall people on him. And it's game over. Can't beat the pressure, can't get into the offense.

Then he compounds it by being an indifferent defender. It's like the team has to swim up stream just to survive.

Over the last 10, Isaiah has 66 assists, and 42 turnovers. That's a 1.57 A/T. That, my friends, is terrible. In march, he's shooting .172 from 3.

Has the league adjusted? Is he wearing down? Either way, that cuts into his earning potential. If he wants to be a starter, it's an 82 game season. It's a grind. If he is physically unable due to his size, then the FO better be noticing.

He simply could be wearing down. He's played quite a few minutes for quite a few games.

My guess? The reason why he functions as a 6th man is because teams don't really have to plan much for him, so he can get by doing what he does best, which is scoring. Unfortunately, in a starter's role, teams are able to more effectively plan for him, and he doesn't really have a big enough bag of tricks to compensate for that. As teams see more and more of him in that starting PG lineup, it becomes harder for him to adjust.

Star players aren't really limited by another team's game plan. Role players are. It's another by-product of trying to turn our role player into a star.

It's probably a combination of the two issues.

 

[mac]

I think the league has noticed that this is a "one pass" offense. Without side to side passing, they can load up on IT, or Gay for that matter. If they can pass from side to side for three or four times (Please see the Spurs!!) then it's so much easier for a guy like IT (or Gay) to make a play off the dribble because his man is then going to be one or two steps out of position and because it's virtually impossible to have an effective double team. Until they get side to side passing and movement without the ball, the offense will continue to underperform.

So who do you think is to blame for that? Malone, players, or a mix of both?

 

[Gilles]

Don't need advanced analytics here, do we? The "why" needs to be answered and addressed.

Having 3 guys, who all use 25+ possessions per game, is just not sustainable, unless your team is full of veterans, who are willing to be invisible on offense, but still contribute a lot across the board. Kings maybe have a couple...

 

[Kingster]

So who do you think is to blame for that? Malone, players, or a mix of both?

1) High turnover; two trades and signing a 10-day guy has got to make it difficult to incorporate an offense more complex than iso when there is so little coaching time.

2) What does the coach ultimately want to see in the offense? Is he eventually aiming at a San Antonio Spurs type of motion offense, or does he ultimately want more of standstill iso offense like what we are seeing? I have no idea. I remember posting at the very beginning of the season that we were hearing a lot about the D, but I heard nothing about the O. If anyone has heard specifics on Malone's offense, please let us know. All I know is that you have a SA game on the DVR switch over to it in the middle of a Kings game. It's mind-boggling how different the ball movement is. And by the way, everybody is involved in the movement with SA.

3) IT had his worst game of the year last night. No excuses. That said, it sure was interesting that of all the people named by Malone in the postgame, it was Cousins and Gay that he named in reference to the lack of ball movement. I did see Cousins cut through the lane with nobody within seven feet of him and Gay ignored him with the pass. I also saw (as did Reynolds) Gay not hit IT wide open in the corner. In the Toronto game I noticed that IT shot the ball twice in the first quarter: it was pass, pass, pass from IT. Yet the offense was putrid. That's because there wasn't pass, pass pass after IT got rid of the ball. Right from the very beginning of the trade, we all saw Gay do his iso thing, and he did it quite well. He likes to pound the ball. I figured that he needed more time to incorporate himself into the offense and that we would see less iso as the year progressed. Well, he hasn't inorporated himself into the offense nearly as much as I would want; it's more like he has gotten even more iso inclined as the season has progressed.

 

[pshn80]

I think iOS is and has been the default MO of the team but Cuz, Gay and IT in particular. It is quite natural for gifted scorers lik the three and most NBA players. Passing and running plays is a separate deal which most are or learn to be good at. IT is the most important one to develop good natural passing and play making. He continues to try but if anything goes wrong he too quickly reverts to his natural ISO. It doesn't help that Cuz and Gay are quick to go ISO also. IT's heighth is an extra hazard for him in this quest - because of his shortness it's easier for defenders to upset his passes which again is all it takes to make IT lean to working for his ISO. Vicious circle. Can IT and the team lick it? I think 'yes' but not soon at the rate we're going and therefore maybe not soon enough.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

BTW, if we're going to start a new point guard next season, please make it a proven veteran and not a rookie. Some reliable stability for a change

But who is out there that we can actually obtain that is a legit starting PG? i really can't think of any

 

[Chupacabra]

The Big Three is a joke. The only unreplaceble player we have is Cuz. I really would not like to lose Rudy and I hope he would be content with a salary less or equal to what Cousins gets for a variety of reasons. I continue to wonder if IT is actually hurting us. I know darn near everybody at the least thinks he should be a 6th man but is a player who has trouble with the team concept, although improving, who plays little if any defense belong on a team coached by Malone?

I would love to see Malone handed some defensive players. He can only go so far in teaching defense to people who have thought of this idea, up until now I hope, as something foreign. Malone may have some skills in teaching offense but to this point hasn't had enough team stability to demonstrate much of anything. I will assume offense is not a strong point in his coaching. Let's get him some defenders. We are asking Malone to go to war with one hand tied behind his back.

There is something major missing from this team if the so called Big Three functioning at their best can only get us to a .500 record. Perhaps a bit of time together and stability in the lineup would be a huge start. I hope we then can move on up from .500.

It's not so much of a situation where IT is hurting us but more of a situation where the way that we are using IT is hurting us. We had probably the leading candidate for 6th man of the year and now we just have a cluttered starting lineup.

 

[gunks]

20-20-20 is lame. Too easy to stop.

Give me 20-18-14-14-10 any day. We dont need a "big three" we need more threats around Cousins, and a PG who will actually run an offense. More options the better, they dont need to be borderline allstar caliber players.

 

[Glenn]

It's not so much of a situation where IT is hurting us but more of a situation where the way that we are using IT is hurting us. We had probably the leading candidate for 6th man of the year and now we just have a cluttered starting lineup.

I do not think that a player who does not believe in sharing and is inept at defense should be a player on this team whether he is on the bench or is a starter. Also. if going forward we want IT to come off the bench, we probably won't be able to sign him at a price most suited for a bench player no matter how good he is. We are already paying for Landry who will come off the bench. There are people here who doubt if he would even accept the role of a bench player. I don't know about that but I have little sympathy for a player who rebels against what the team thinks is best.

IT messes up our offense whether it is his choice or not. Our FO thought it appropriate to start him and yes, that is a poor use of him. He hasn't been able to adjust to be a starter and that is on him.

 

[mac]

1) High turnover; two trades and signing a 10-day guy has got to make it difficult to incorporate an offense more complex than iso when there is so little coaching time.

2) What does the coach ultimately want to see in the offense? Is he eventually aiming at a San Antonio Spurs type of motion offense, or does he ultimately want more of standstill iso offense like what we are seeing? I have no idea. I remember posting at the very beginning of the season that we were hearing a lot about the D, but I heard nothing about the O. If anyone has heard specifics on Malone's offense, please let us know. All I know is that you have a SA game on the DVR switch over to it in the middle of a Kings game. It's mind-boggling how different the ball movement is. And by the way, everybody is involved in the movement with SA.

3) IT had his worst game of the year last night. No excuses. That said, it sure was interesting that of all the people named by Malone in the postgame, it was Cousins and Gay that he named in reference to the lack of ball movement. I did see Cousins cut through the lane with nobody within seven feet of him and Gay ignored him with the pass. I also saw (as did Reynolds) Gay not hit IT wide open in the corner. In the Toronto game I noticed that IT shot the ball twice in the first quarter: it was pass, pass, pass from IT. Yet the offense was putrid. That's because there wasn't pass, pass pass after IT got rid of the ball. Right from the very beginning of the trade, we all saw Gay do his iso thing, and he did it quite well. He likes to pound the ball. I figured that he needed more time to incorporate himself into the offense and that we would see less iso as the year progressed. Well, he hasn't inorporated himself into the offense nearly as much as I would want; it's more like he has gotten even more iso inclined as the season has progressed.

To answer question 2, I am inclined to point towards the Cavs when Malone was offensive coordinator (that's not a compliment).

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

But who is out there that we can actually obtain that is a legit starting PG? i really can't think of any

There's nobody around who can play some defense, pass the ball, and initiate an offense with commitment and consistency? I have hard time believing that, but maybe that is the case at the moment

Hold on....Ray McCallum can do that