Grades v. Nets 11/26

New feature: Kings goat of the game?

  • BJax (foul on inbounds, beat by Harris x2 for gamewinners/ties, bricked 3 end OT)

    Votes: 11 16.7%
  • Hawes (choked 2 FTs in final two min, fouled 3pt shooter to lose 6pt lead)

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • Miller (techincal foul (in OT!) missed FT at end of OT)

    Votes: 36 54.5%
  • Salmons (2 missed FTs in final 30 of reg, TO on gamewinner reg, missed FT end of OT)

    Votes: 17 25.8%

  • Total voters
    66
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Wow...that was pretty sweet. And this was our WINNABLE game in this stretch.

On a happier note, this will be the first theme grades of the year.

The Thanksgiving Edition

Thompson ( D ) -- seems to be regressing these last couple of games, as is Reggie's use of him. Started off playing too fast again, and back into major early foul trouble (had 3 in the first 4 mintes). We were trying to take advnatage of his mismatch against Bobby Simmons down inside too, but Jason wasn't able to stay in control, and ultimately the quickness/saavy/skill of the more natural SF won out against the size and youthful exuberance of JT. Lost almost all his minutes to the decrepit BJax/Mikki combo, which is going to get on my nerves.

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Thanksgiving: A Primer For Our Foreign Friends -- Thanksgiving is a major holiday in the United States, perhaps second to only Christmas in popularity (observant members of various religious sets might beg to differ). It pretty much officially kicks off the "Holiday Season" in the United States, which stretches from Thanksgiving to New Years, and is typified by that great American staple: gross excess. On Thankgiving, that excess centers around pigging out on as much food as humanly possible, and specifically, on turkey. Which in this case is not a citizen of the country Turkey (normally, unless you have a big family to feed), but rather a large, mostly flightless bird native to the Americas that had the supreme misfortune of grabbing the attention of the earliest European settlers on this continent. The other great staple of Thanksgiving in the last 50 years is American Football, a sport which nobody outside of North America understands, but that is almost a religion here. More on that later.

Moore ( C ) -- oh boy let me tell you just how pleased I was to see Mikki back in the starting lineup. Let me first say that Mikki is a nice enough man, and nice enough player in a minor roleplayer sort of way. But he's nobody's (credible) starter, adn let's all hope -- fervently -- that this was just Reggie's response to the quickness and perimeter game of the Nets' "power" forwards. Otherwise Spencer, and especially Jason, are doomed once Cisco and Kevin come back. Did little out there to justify the compliment either. Nothing much in the first half against Yi, and then was getting lit up by Ryan Anderson of all people. Never got anything going offensively, mostly restricting himself to little missed jumpers. Lost most of his late minutes (an odd substitution in OT aside) to Spencer.

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Thanksgiving: A Brief History -- Traditionally the first Thanksgiving has been portrayed as occuring in Plymouth Massachusetts in 1621. There was indeed a celebration at that time, basically of not starving to death. But there were a whole host of various Thanksgiving celebrations in the New World throughout the early years. The Spanish held one in Florida in 1565, basically to celebrate actually making it across the ocean. Some conquistador ordered his expedition to party in celebration of finding the very exciting El Paso Texas in 1598. The Plymoth colony itself held a more organized Thanksgiving in 1623, when they again wanted to celebrate not starving (you have to understand that these were still basically Europeans, and therefore of course not possessed yet of our Amercian rugged independence and knack for killing things. They also wore funny hats.). And so on. Some were spontaneous, largely relgious celebrations, where the thanks being given centered around "Oh Lord, thank you that my *** is still here". Some were basically extensions of the various harvest festivals that dated back thousands of years. Things did not get really organized until 1863, when Lincoln declared a day of celebration that the Civil War was going well for the last Thursday of November, and it was celebrated every year subsequently by Presidential decree. Finally the modern variant of Thanksgiving celebrated on the 4th Thursday of November can pretty much be dated to 1941, when Congress settled a dispute between states adhering to Lincoln's last Thursday of November date for Thanksgiving, and F.D.R.'s second-to-last Thursday of November date, by splitting the difference and just saying it would be the 4th Thursday, regardless of whether that ended up being the last or second to last. Note: Canada also has a Thanksgiving Day. But they celebrate it at the wrong time of the year (2nd week of October) and like ice skat..er..hockey more than football, and so do not count.

Miller ( B- ) -- And this is of course an interesting one. Didn't have to worry about Brad passing up shots in the early going oin this one...but maybe you wished he was as he was off, and having your center chunking up a series of soft little 18 foot bricks mixed with three pointers ain't much of an offense. Picked it up in the 3rd quarter, and was effective in limiting the Nets to one shot with his boardwork. At one point even looked poised to be something of a hero (you will notice his goat candidacy above) after he hit a three to go ahead in the final minutes. One of a pair of back to back threes with Hawes actually, which...maybe its better it didn't work out. they need no further encouragement (amazingly they managed to combine for 9 threes again). Of course this gets interesting for what happened in OT, as Brad committed an unforgiveable sin that had me tempted to jsut slap a petulant F up here. And hey? Why not? If Brad can be petulant and get paid millions of dollars, why can't I? So its OT, its a 1 point game, Brad thinks he gets fouled....what do you think happens? Do you thinnk he takes one for the team? Do you think he sucks it up? Or do you think he whines, cries and complains like an infant until the refs finally T him up and cost us a point. In OT. And for what? What a mental weakling. Anyway, briefly made a play for redemption by actually going down into the post and hitting a half hook over Lopez (an actual post move over an actual post player), but then came back in the final seconds to choke 1 of 2 FTs and put us in danger of imminent defeat. Given the point he had already given away on the technical, it was if he had choked both. So strong numbers, lots of three point chucks, and a pair of ugly goat horns. The technical was just offensive though, so big minus.

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So Why Do They Call It A Turkey? -- Well, basically because we are stupid. Or at least our ancestors were. The "Turks" were an ancient people that hung out with the Huns and Mongols in the giant Central Asian barbarian factory, and joined in their hobby of periodically traveling across the world to sack, pillage, burn, and generally be mean to anybody who had the audacity to be civilized. The Huns got the Romans, the Mongols got China, and the Turks (one branch) got the Byzantine Empire. The heart of the Byzantine Empire was Anatolia/Asia Minor, and so when the Turks got done being mean to the Byzantines that is where they settled down. Since the Turks now lived there, eventually it became "Turkey". So now how does that relate to our very North American bird? Well as mentioned, the first settlers were idiots. They arrived in America, thought they had reached Asia, saw a big bird, mistook the big bird for a guineafowl (a bird found in Turkey), and promptly named it a "turkey". Only missed it by about 12,000 miles. Bright huh?

Salmons ( A- ) -- tough on the "-" here -- this was John's career best night, at least statistically (might have been his career high minutes too, so somewhat exaggerated). But still had a big big night. Pretty much WAS our offense for the first quarter and half of this one. Not the best player in our offense. The offense. At one point had 16 points while the rest of the team had 12. Was battling back and forth with Carter from the beginning. Never did really get a hold of him defensively, but Carter can be like that. Gets his shots off, they just either go in or not. But John was matching and even getting the better of it before Carter went down with injury. And it wasn't just the drives that were effective, it was the jumper. Hit 4 of 5 threes tonight, and they were right in the defender's face. Normally John is a wide open, from the shorter corners three point shooter. Tonight at least 3 of the 4 came from the elbows with the defender right in his face. Very impressive. And so after 38pts 7rebs on 11-19 shooting (although notably zero assists) and a career high, how do we get the "minus"? Well, welcome to John Salmons, the goat edition, part...well, I've lost count of what part it is. But its a lot. This time our single best player may have been the single biggest reason we lost this one, as when needed he choked 2 of 4 FTs in the final seconds of regulation after the Nets intentionally fouled, opening the door for the Nets to tie. Then he gets stripped on our last second attempt to win it. Then he comes back in OT in the final seconds and AGAIN misses 1 of 2, combining with Brad to give the game to the Nets on a golden platter. Which is very generous and in the Thanksgiving spirit, but not healthy for one's grade. So minus it is. But still a big night.

BigTurkey.jpg

World's Largest Turkey? -- According to the Guiness Book, 86 pounds. Mess with that bird, you may be the one ending up on the table.
 
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Udrih ( B+ ) -- aggressive again to start this one, maybe too much so. Was repeatedly trying to split double teams and getting bailed out by whistles on what could easily have been turnovers. Still one of only a couple of players who actually showed up on offense in the first half. Scoiring dried up, but played well down the stretch, hitting Spencer for a dunk, Brad for the go ahead three, and then adding a driving layup of his own with about 30 seconds to go that put us up 6, and should have been the end of it. Twas not to be. On the other end Harris was just awful in the early going -- not Beno's doing, but still true. But it was BJax who got beat by Harris late, not Beno. We had him hidden off on Dooling, who actually had a good night against him. As an aside, again it took until overtime to acheive, but Salmons wasn't the only one to threaten a career high tonight. Beno's 10 assists ties his (not a great compliment to his game perhaps, but still a good night for him in that aspect). Stands out as the only King on the court in the final minutes/OT who did NOT choke. Didn't carry us or anything, but at least he did not screw up. On a night like this, that stands out.

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Well, maybe there might be ONE bigger turkey: -- this Big Bird's costume is made from 4000 died turkey feathers (notice how I slipped in the pic with the gratuitous babe)

Greene ( C+ ) -- first player off the bench as he was quickly in to get the minutes once Thompson got into foul trouble, but again did not do much. Not sure if he is just afraid to screw up or what right now, but you barely know the kid is out there even when he is out there. Did better in his second stint when he hit a couple of smooth open shots in the late third after being set up nicely by Brad and Brown.

Hawes ( B ) -- well...aggressive to say the least before half. Blocked 4 shots, took 12 shots in 16 minutes, but actually got 4 of those 12 blocked. Of course chucked up two bricked threes as well. Was mostly willing to chance going inside on Yi, may never dare to do so again against Lopez after having him block two shots on one possession against him. Only hit two shots after half, but they were memorable ones during the 4th quarter push. First got set up by Beno for a big baseline dunk, then a minute later got hit by Brad for the big corner three to tie things. But then the troubles started for him, as they did for the team as a whole, as ge came back down and chucked up another three for a brick, and then choked two FTs a minute later to reopen that door. And then made a terrible mistake fouling Simmons as a 3pt shooter in the final 30 seconds. Damn lucky Simmons missed one of the 3 or we could have lost in regulation. In any case 6 blocks is desperately needed in these parts, but joined in the teamwide shaky late play against those mighty New Jersey Nets.

Brown ( D ) -- short minutes tonight, and I think losing time due to mistakes now. Amazingly, for the 4th time in 5 games got involved with another quarter ending turnover (actually TWO). The first was probably not his fault as Salmons threw a bad outlet pass to him to close the first quarter, it got picked off, and bingo, Nets score (Dooling shooting over Brown). The second definitely was as he nearly threw the ball away to close the third, then got a 24 second violation, and then finished things off by fouling Devin Harris to give the Nets two points before the buzzer. Struggled against Keyon Dolling in his 2nd quarter minutes as well. Lot of activity for 6+ minutes of action. Some irony in him maybe losing his minutes for screwing up, only to go sit on the bench and watch the vets show him how screwing up is really done.

Jackson ( C+ ) -- Oh Bobby Bobby. Was setting himself up as a hero once again, and then the bottom fell out and he joined the pile of goats. Had already had soome earlier misadventures -- Missing an open corner three at the first half buzzer as well as the thrid quarter buzzer. But came up with a big one in the early 4th to give us our first lead since the first quarter, and was again playing inspired fountain of youth ball as we battled down the stretch. But then...well then it got ugly. First with 34 seconds to go and us up 6 he got called for holding Harris on an inbounds play that set up our late collapse (gave the Nets a FT and the ball). After Spencer made his contribution to the choke, and Salmosn started his, Bobby then came abck and made a defensive error on the Nets final play of regulation, as he backed up too far off of Harris and gave him the three that the Nets needed to tie it up and send it to OT (to be fair though Harris hads been awful to that point). But it wasn't over yet, and Bobby stil had time for more OT goatdom as he not only got beat again by Harris for the game winning shot, but then ended up taking our final desperation attempt, and clanked another three for the loss. One of 6 missed threes on the night (he was 1-7 from 3pt land). And that's just too much goating to maintain a healthy grade, no matyter how inspired his playu earlier in the game.

Theus ( F ) -- Yikes. What to be said that hasn't already? Get the feeling Reggie is coaching for his coaching life, but if he is, then he is committing the worst of all possible sins -- losing, with vets. If he loses with kids, he can claim its all in the name of development and he's taking one for the team. If he wins wiht vets he can claim its all in the name of winning and our "playoff" push (ha!). But losing with vets...leaves you no excuse, no angle to play. Its the worst of all possible worlds, for us, for the team, and for Reggie. And in this one, in what was our best chance for a win in a long stretch against Western poweres, blowing it hurt double. Another thing that hurt was seeing Mikki Moore reappear as a starter. Grrr... And it a wasn't an aberration, as Jason's struggles gave Reggie all the excuse he needed to go old old old, all the time. Its amusing to see our great "youth movement" making suhc great strides...as cheerleaders. Hey, at least we'll have a whole new generation of well qualified Mateen's. Unacceptable 3rd quarter lineup through heart of the quarter featured every old guy he could muster. Surprised he did not break out KT. Brad, Mikki, Salmons, BJax, beautiful. JT got 14 minutes. Brown 6. Spencer still got his at least. The late game strategy...well, its late, its Thanksgiving, and its being discussed violently in a number of other threads. Suffice it to say it sucked. So in one game we have a lacksadaisical heartless start. Vets taking the kids time. Late game collapses, and really strange late game caoching decisions. And all of this against the weakest oppenent we are going to face for weeks. Woohoo.
 
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Miller for goat.
Salmons a runner up for continuing his stellar late game play.

This hurt.
 
Look, I know I've been very vocal on these boards about my dislike for Brad Miller, but I think this might be an all time low with him. I've made mention about his drives to the basket and then all the stupid stuff he does after he is rejected or misses a layup. Tonight he crossed the line. Getting a technical foul in a 1 point game in OT is totally unacceptable. You can say what you want about Salmons missing FT's, but that is not something that he can really control. Brad simply cannot make these mistakes. It's time for Reggie to put an end to the crap. He needs to get control of his players. I don't care if it's a veteran like Brad -- it can't be tolerated.

He needs to go, seriously. Sorry, but I'm just really frustrated right now.
 
I goat Theus. Completely incapable of drawing up an offensive play out of a time out, and allowing our team to have the worst 3pt defense in the league, even when a 3 is the only thing that needs defending!!

I also put some blame on Thompson for fouling out so early. Looked like Theus was planning on making him a featured part of the offense, and was left with nothing other than the "give the ball to Salmons" strategy for the rest of the first half.
 
I also put some blame on Thompson for fouling out so early. Looked like Theus was planning on making him a featured part of the offense, and was left with nothing other than the "give the ball to Salmons" strategy for the rest of the first half.

JT didn't foul out. He had 4.

If Salmons doesn't go 2/4 at the end the game is over. Just needed 1 of the 2 that were missed then OT never happens.
 
JT didn't foul out. He had 4.

If Salmons doesn't go 2/4 at the end the game is over. Just needed 1 of the 2 that were missed then OT never happens.

He had 3 in the first quarter. Technically you're right, he didn't foul out. But he took himself out of the game with careless play.
 
You need to add Theus for worst substitutions ever.

BJax 33min and 1-7 from three. If your going to swap Moore for Hawes on alternate possessions, why would you leave the worst 3 pt shooter on the team in and have him set up beyond the 3 pt line?

Then you get a lucky break and Carter goes out of the game, and the only person left that can hurt you is Harris. Do you switch your best defender(Solmons) to cover him? No, you leave the 35yr old who's played 30min. So, what happens, first he drives past Jackson and then on the next possession he shots a 3 over him.

I just hope Theus learned his lesson over the last 2 games. Vets aren't always the answer, they can make stupid mistakes just like rookies.
 
JT didn't foul out. He had 4.

If Salmons doesn't go 2/4 at the end the game is over. Just needed 1 of the 2 that were missed then OT never happens.

Salmons gave us 50 min with career hi pts and 7 rebounds. Playing that long and that hard plus the end of the game pressure, I can give him a little latitude when it come to making those FT.

There were enough people to blame based on stupidity, we don't need to point any fingers Salmons way.
 
Salmons gave us 50 min with career hi pts and 7 rebounds. Playing that long and that hard plus the end of the game pressure, I can give him a little latitude when it come to making those FT.

There were enough people to blame based on stupidity, we don't need to point any fingers Salmons way.
well said
 
Salmons has hit plenty of clutch freethrows in other games only to have them nullified by team-wide collapses (and is carrying the team every night on both ends of the floor), but I guess blame him for every loss!

Personally, I blame Salmons for the subprime mortgage crisis. If he was only less selfish, we wouldn't be in a recession right now
 
Salmons gave us 50 min with career hi pts and 7 rebounds. Playing that long and that hard plus the end of the game pressure, I can give him a little latitude when it come to making those FT.

There were enough people to blame based on stupidity, we don't need to point any fingers Salmons way.

Agreed. Salmons played well. Blame the offense that needs him, not the individual performance.
 
As far as the poll, for me it's basically a tie between Stoner Miller and old vet Bjax. Salmons has been a warrior supreme this season with several 50+ min games that always seems to have him chasing other teams best player around on D while trying to carry huge missing scoring load. Sure thought when Carter went out injured late we'd have enough for the W. Hurry back Kev and Cisco so you can plug some big holes on this ship taking on water.

My grades Kings/Nets:

Udrih: A
Salmons: A
Miller: C-
Moore: F
Thompson: D
Hawes: B+
Jackson: C
Green: C
Brown: Inc
 
Salmons played 50 minutes, scored 38 points and grabbed 7 rebounds.

....and he had 0 assists! ZERO! You've got to be kidding me! :eek:

50 minutes, 38 points, 0 assists.

I'm not impressed. :mad:
 
Salmons played 50 minutes, scored 38 points and grabbed 7 rebounds.

....and he had 0 assists! ZERO! You've got to be kidding me! :eek:

50 minutes, 38 points, 0 assists.

I'm not impressed. :mad:

Yes, he had 38 pts on 19 shoots, which is Martin type of efficency. And, I'm sure there were times during is 8 misses when he could have passed but the rest of the team was shooting 38 percent and he was shooting 58 percent so why should he. Besides by the time Beno get done dribbling and passes the ball into the hi post, there isn't much time for Salmons to do anything but shot before the 24 sec clock expires.

We've got an offense that set our two 7 footers out past the 3 pt line the majority of the time, and you want to blame our best offensive player for not getting assists. I think your focusing your anger on the wrong person.
 
As far as the poll, for me it's basically a tie between Stoner Miller and old vet Bjax. Salmons has been a warrior supreme this season with several 50+ min games that always seems to have him chasing other teams best player around on D while trying to carry huge missing scoring load. Sure thought when Carter went out injured late we'd have enough for the W. Hurry back Kev and Cisco so you can plug some big holes on this ship taking on water.

My grades Kings/Nets:

Udrih: A
Salmons: A
Miller: C-
Moore: F
Thompson: D
Hawes: B+
Jackson: C
Green: C
Brown: Inc

I think you forgot the most important: Theus F
Poor rotations, poor plays out of the time outs, poor defensive coverage assignments
 
The blame for this loss goes to Reggie. Some of his decisions tonight were beyond belief. I already posted my thoughts in another thread, so I'm going to go into them again. Maybe tomorrow. I took notes. I could comment on his substitution pattern, but then I would be disrespecting the word pattern.
 
Yes, he had 38 pts on 19 shoots, which is Martin type of efficency. And, I'm sure there were times during is 8 misses when he could have passed but the rest of the team was shooting 38 percent and he was shooting 58 percent so why should he. Besides by the time Beno get done dribbling and passes the ball into the hi post, there isn't much time for Salmons to do anything but shot before the 24 sec clock expires.

We've got an offense that set our two 7 footers out past the 3 pt line the majority of the time, and you want to blame our best offensive player for not getting assists. I think your focusing your anger on the wrong person.

I'm sorry, 50 minutes and not one assist. 50 minutes!!! :eek: That's over 1 entire game! There is absolutely NO EXCUSES for that type of statline. I don't care if you're shooting 100 percent, you've got to have at least 1 assist.

Add that to his missed free throws and turnovers, I think my anger is perfectly justified.
 
I'm sorry, 50 minutes and not one assist. 50 minutes!!! :eek: That's over 1 entire game! There is absolutely NO EXCUSES for that type of statline. I don't care if you're shooting 100 percent, you've got to have at least 1 assist.

Add that to his missed free throws and turnovers, I think my anger is perfectly justified.

It may not be entirely his fault, but he wasn't look for people. When he got the ball he either attempted to score or turned it over. I don't know what to think anymore thoe. I expect the Maloofs to give Reggie another chance, but also pressure our FO into making a MAJOR trade involving Miller, Salmons or both.
 
I'm sorry, 50 minutes and not one assist. 50 minutes!!! :eek: That's over 1 entire game! There is absolutely NO EXCUSES for that type of statline. I don't care if you're shooting 100 percent, you've got to have at least 1 assist.

Add that to his missed free throws and turnovers, I think my anger is perfectly justified.

Oh please....the guy just had a career game. Would it be nice to have an assist? Of course. However, without Salmons on the floor tonight, they lose the game.
 
JT got in foul trouble because he's playing out of position because we still "need" to play Brad Miller 35 min+. Time to go, Brad.
 
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