Grades v. Mavs 11/02/04

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Sorry, have been more than a little distracted tonight, so take these with a grain of salt:

Peja ( D- ) -- falls under the "what the hell was that?" rubric. made just enough good plays to avoid the "F", but just an ineffective perfromance. Mavs doubled him at times, smothered him at others, and he was rarely able to even get free, let alone hit shots when he actually was open.
Webb ( A- ) -- looked really good tonight. During one stretch in the first half just repeatedly took it right at Dampier and beat him repeatedly. Reminded you of just how good he can be. Moved well on defense although no huge impact. Rebounding picked up as the game went along. Encouraging performance, but not a dominant one.
Miller ( B ) -- got his butt kicked by Dampier to start the game, and then more troublingly was having all kinds of problems keeping the ghost of Alan Henderson off the board either. Don't know what's up with his rebounding right now, but he's got to figure it out. On the positive side played a nice offensive game, early on taking Dampier off the dribble to try to get him into foul trouble, and later smoothly stroking his jumper. And while his rebounding was never good, he got increasingly scrappy as the game went along and began to bang around, get his hands on balls, and generally make himself a pest.
Evans ( C ) -- seems a little harsh given that we're talking Maurice Evans here who four weeks ago nobody thought would even be in the NBA. But for a night at least he was our stater. And he didn't do much. Had some flashes of energetic play and solid defense. But also had lapses and really did very little whether it be scoring, rebounding or passing.
Bibby ( D ) -- just terrible in the first half. Totally dominated by Mavs rookie Devon Harris who just picked his pocket at will. Stablized a little bit in the second half and hit a big three. But it was bad enough that he got the JWill treatment in the 4th quarter as he watched Bobby run the team down the stretch.
BJax ( B- ) -- not his best effort and a little out of control at times. But made some really strong plays as well and ran a much steadier point in the second half than did Bibby. Looked like the old Bobby.
Songaila ( C ) -- energetic effort, but not a terribly effective one. Did a reasonable job against Dirk, but Dirk was just too strong tonight.
Ostertag ( B- ) -- this is not going to be in the numbers, but Tag came in and did what he does best for a few short stints, namely be big. Helped quiet Dampier after a big start against Miller just by suddenly posing a giant 270lb roadblock. Showed his offensive limitations but played within himself.
Barnes ( A+ ) -- ok, it wasn't truly a perfect game. But this is Matt Barnes we are talking about here. And the guy just came in and kicked ***. Quite possibly the best King, an certainly the best King little man. Great energy, athleticsim that we desperately need, an all around game and tonight was hitting his shots. Maybe our elusive backup SF is already on the roster.
Martin ( INC ) -- I am being kind to him with the INC. Came in and was really ineffective. But it was a very short stint.

Adelman ( B ) -- thought he was a bit slow to react to the Mavs using a full court press against us in the first half. Good decision to stick with Bobby over Bibby down the stretch though. And he found Matt Barnes and stuck with him when it became obvious he was outplaying any of our other smaller players.
 
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piksi

Hall of Famer
#2
Grades for Mike and Pedja way too high.

Who ever was guarding Nowitzki does not deserve mor than C.

RA - see Mike and Pedja
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#3
Adelman can't shoot the ball. I think his grade was good, and I was really impressed with the use of a complete second unit... Bodes well for the future, IMHO.

As far as the rest of the grades, I'm pretty much in agreement. There's a lot to take away from this game.

Am I happy we lost? Of course not.

Is it indicative of how this team is going to do? I don't think so.

It was Dallas' home opener in front of fans who are as rabid as Arco fans, if not more so. We couldn't stop Dirk but if our top shooters would have done anything, it wouldn't have mattered.

For us to be effective, Pedja HAS to step up and have good showings against these teams.

The Mavs couldn't have beaten us without Dirk; we can't beat them without Pedja.

It really is that simple...
 
#4
piksi said:
Who ever was guarding Nowitzki does not deserve mor than C.
well many players were rotated onto Dirk.. so we might as well bump everyone a half grade down


Bricklayer said:
Webb ( A- ) -- looked really good tonight. During one stretch in the first half just repeatedly took it right at Dampier and beat him repeatedly. Reminded you of just how good he can be. Moved well on defense although no huge impact. Rebounding picked up as the game went along. Encouraging performance, but not a dominant one.
I'd bump Webb to a B+ ... FTs
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#6
Might bump bibby up a half grade based on comming up in the clutch. Maybe you were a little hard on Darius bassed on his role. Remember this is the second year 6 10 PF who comes in behind Webber and is expected to hustle, lay some D and take the ocasional shot. He did that and more which translated inot more rest for Webber Other wise just about right.
 
#8
Lamar_Odom said:
I know it's only 1 game but does Peja really want to remain a King or is he feeling stuck?
i love peja but if he didn't play well tonight because he didn't take it seriously and just played because he was "stuck" i'd personally drive up to dallas and kick his too-tall-for-me-to-reach behind.

i'm usually a peja homie. i am just not very happy right now.

feel the rage. RAAAA.......
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
Lamar_Odom said:
I know it's only 1 game but does Peja really want to remain a King or is he feeling stuck?
Oh please Laker fan. Don't even start...

Pedja played hard. He moved all over the court. He just hasn't gotten his shot back yet.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#10
Pedja took the whole sumer off and ahs not shot well since suiting up for preseason. He is in shape, going for the ocasional board and trying to shoot himself out of the slump... He will be fine.
 
#11
i listened to part of the game, until about midway through the 2nd, and it sounded awful. peja sounded like he couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. miller and webber sounded like they were the only starters doing anything, and barnes sounded like he was doing an awesome job.

hopefully peja shows up tommorrow, but with bowen..... oh boy. i won't count on it.

and i'm so ticked this isn't on national TV. this sucks for me becuase i can't afford LP so i can only listen to a staticy radio... ARGH!!!!

better luck tommorrow GO KINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#12
Didn't get to watch the game, but what else is new. Definately seems like there are many postives to take from the game. Barnes seemed like he played exceptionally. Good to see that Webb played well. Can he play well consistently is the question. He had some stellar games if you remember, when he had just come back from his injury last season and then looked awful in others. Brad seemed to get better as the game progressed. I think we can definately get more out of Songaila on the offensive end. Otag did what he does best even with a a bummed hand. Bobby, from most of your takes seemed to be Bobby. Are the stats right? did we actually have the same amount of rebounds as the Mavs @ 43 boards??

Then there is the obvious lack of play from Peja and Bibby, but i'm sure they will get it together soon. Martin should that he is just a rook, needs to gain more confidence and play within himself. Team defense defiantely needs a lot more work. What I couldn't tell is whether they were playing Kings ball, with nifty passes and backdoor cuts. Was that happening at all??? I ask because it seems that our assists seemed to be lower than usual.

Finally, can anyone help me out and tell me if they were surprised by any of the Dallas players and how the Mavs looked overall as a team? thanks
 
#13
Dallas looks good. Expecially Harris. He is sooo quick. Man I wish we have some of the 'rookie luck' Dallas has this two seasons.. tips my hat off to their scouting staff.
 
#14
Since93 said:
Dallas looks good. Expecially Harris. He is sooo quick. Man I wish we have some of the 'rookie luck' Dallas has this two seasons.. tips my hat off to their scouting staff.
well they did trade the 6th man of the year for harris and stack..
 
#18
Weird game.

On one hand, the Kings were a couple stops away from tying it up late with Peja and Bibby basically not contributing (Jackson was pretty bad as well). That's a cause for optimism.

On the other hand, it's hard to feel good whenever two of your top 3 players forgot to show up.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
On the OTHER other hand, what about seeing a complete second unit for the Kings on the court? That has to be a plus...along with how well Webber, Miller and Barnes played.

;)
 
#20
I didn't see the game, but based on what I've read it seems like it could've been a lot worse. If the worst of our problems was our shooters being off, its not that bad at all.
 
#21
Okay, just a few more late night observations from the newb.

Barnes & Brad were AWESOME! Web contributed with some good baskets. Brad provided interior defense as well as shooting, and his hussle after the ball isn't matched by anyone else on the team. Barnes: It was refreshing to see the new kid on the block look interested and excited to be on the floor, and it showed in every faucet of his play.

Now for the bad news. Webber is still hobbled, you can see it in his gait and in lack of ANY significant elevation. Yes, he put up some good numbers, but he missed many defensive opportunities, blew it under the basket more than once offensively and mishandled the ball more than a few times. Peja's shots clanked, although he did make some good moves in the interior. Does Peja need a personality overhaul? If he can't come out and play with the big boys soon, I feel he will shrivel up into an insignificant non-entity out there (and what a shame that would be!) Bibby was simply not on his shot either, what can you say?

These guys have been playing together longer than any team's core. These core players are who fans should expect to see production from, even if Tag off the bench did his job and Songalia was just mediocre. Maybe it was just a jitter problem, but if things aren't resolved soon I fear that shallow bandwaggon fans will be a little more than tough come opening home game next week at Arco.

I think Adelman has a lot to answer to this year, especially where lack of defensive play is concerned. I hope he is as concerned as we all are!

I don't think there is any shame in playing a crappy game. Hopefully we can take at least one win from this roadtrip.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
alriightythen - It wasn't that bad. The good news (Webber, Miller, AND Barnes) was very good. The bad news (Pedja and Bibby MIA) is fixable.

The worst of our problems was that we did not have anyone on the floor who even made Dirk break a sweat... On the other hand, if our shooters had been shooting, it wouldn't have mattered.

:D
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#23
albeitrue said:
Now for the bad news. Webber is still hobbled, you can see it in his gait and in lack of ANY significant elevation. Yes, he put up some good numbers, but he missed many defensive opportunities, blew it under the basket more than once offensively and mishandled the ball more than a few times. . .
Still hobbled? Funny. Neither the Sacramento broadcasters OR the Mavericks broadcasters thought that.

Just how much does he have to do? Walk on water???

Barnes & Brad were AWESOME! Web contributed with some good baskets.
Webber "contributed" ...? Webber was effective and instrumental in Miller making having a good game. They worked well together.

But, whatever... If you saw him still hobbled, etc. than that's your opinion, which you are entitled to. It's just odd that virtually no one reporting the game saw the same thing.
 
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#24
Just how much does he have to do? Walk on water???
No, that would make him more than human and I know he isn't. Is there any other way to answer that?

It was an observation - I may not be an announcer, but I can still have one.

Did you read the rest? You are usually more positive than that.

Edit: Okay, I see you did make an allowance for me to have my opinion, my bad!
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#25
Sorry for the sarcasm.

Your statement that Webber is still hobbled is just, IMHO, without substance in fact. I found it odd that you would say that, especially after the broadcasters for both the Kings and the Mavericks made a point of saying pretty much the exact opposite.

My main point - especially for those who weren't able to watch - was that while you feel he's still hobbled, the guys who were watching most closely and had the best view didn't seem to agree.

I didn't see it, either, and I watched very closely, sitting very near the TV. I'm watching the tape now, and I still don't see any real problem in his mobility or strength.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, pending further assessment...

;)
 
#26
I will agree to disagree with you VF21, no problem here. None of us should be so sensitive that we can't have an open discussion and possibly learn something from each other. I like this forum, and am taking my time and some trouble trying to be sensitive about what I say! That's why it took me some time to prepare my response to your comment. :eek:

As to the sarcasm, you have your ideas about Web, and I have mine. I did wonder though if you read the rest of the post...

Do you also think I am Ailene Voison? :eek:
 
#28
If a grade existed for team defense, what would those watching the game give such grade? That is what frustrates me about listening via the internet -- I can't get a sense for team defense. Was Dirk just on fire in the first half, or were there serious defensive breakdowns?

And on that note, I might drop Adelman's grade a tad. Why did he stray from having Peja guard Dirk when the two are on the floor together? That has been the Kings MO, even when Dirk was playing PF before. Sure, Josh Howard is no Adrian Griffin, but he's not Dirk yet, either.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#29
albeitrue said:
I will agree to disagree with you VF21, no problem here. None of us should be so sensitive that we can't have an open discussion and possibly learn something from each other. I like this forum, and am taking my time and some trouble trying to be sensitive about what I say! That's why it took me some time to prepare my response to your comment. :eek:

As to the sarcasm, you have your ideas about Web, and I have mine. I did wonder though if you read the rest of the post...

Do you also think I am Ailene Voison? :eek:
You're entirely right about the discussion part... and I should not have replied with sarcasm. It's just frustrating sometimes. So much negative stuff has been said about Webber that I just like to see people give him credit when credit is due, and I think he deserved credit for tonight's performance... The "Yes, he put up good numbers BUT..." just didn't seem fair.

Are you Ailene Voisin? No. She'd probably spell her last name right. Unless, of course, that's part of the plan to throw me off the track. ;)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#30
4cwebb said:
If a grade existed for team defense, what would those watching the game give such grade? That is what frustrates me about listening via the internet -- I can't get a sense for team defense. Was Dirk just on fire in the first half, or were there serious defensive breakdowns?

And on that note, I might drop Adelman's grade a tad. Why did he stray from having Peja guard Dirk when the two are on the floor together? That has been the Kings MO, even when Dirk was playing PF before. Sure, Josh Howard is no Adrian Griffin, but he's not Dirk yet, either.
Team defense? Hmmmmmm. TEAM DEFENSE???? Tough question.

Was Dirk on fire in the first half? Yes. Were there serious defensive breakdowns? Yes.

Adelman tried a lot of different combinations, trying to find a way to at least contain Dirk. Without Doug on the floor, however, we were just too light in the defense department IMHO. He pulled Pedja off guarding Dirk because Dirk was acting as though Pedja was invisible.

We simply do not match up well against the Mavs. When we have two players MIA, we are in deep doo-doo. If Pedja had found even part of his shot, we would have been okay, especially in the second half.
 
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