[Grades] Grades v. Mavs 1/31/2014
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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BTW, the scoring PG debate and needing one doesn't belong in this conversation. Yes, scoring PG's are important and some very good teams have them, but it ignores the makeup of those teams to suggest we should have one here.
Westbrook obviously is key for OKC. Well, Durant is the only other guys requiring touches when WB is out there. He doesn't have a Rudy/Boogie duo to create shots for and he'd certainly get complaints if he did and instead jacked the ball up 20 times a night.
Rose was another when healthy, yet there also were few guys requiring the ball on Chi. It was all Rose, all the time, and had to be aside from occasionally setting up Boozer/Deng.
Parker/CP3 score, yet comparing their mindsets and rhythm of play, how they set up the offense and teammates is night and day compared to IT. They move the ball consistently for the majority of a game and look to score when needed. That's the key. They don't look into games thinking getting themselves off is the most important aspect.
Then you have guys like Lilland/Dragic/Wall/Kyrie, but not one of them has a Rudy/Boogie level duo they're charged with creating for and maximizing. Simply stating scoring PG's are important and that's why what IT is doing is fine, completely ignores the situations and roster structures the better scoring PG's find themselves in.
And this is important, if you decide as a PG that scoring is more important than setting up teammates, which guys like Rose and WB have done on occasion, then you better be good enough to win games for your team. IT isn't. He's not a Rose or WB who can iso regularly down the stretch and pull out a victory. He regularly gets hot for stretches but almost always disappears with the game on the line and even when exploding earlier in games he doesn't carry the team to a win. At that point you need your teammates, the same ones he regularly looks off.
Westbrook obviously is key for OKC. Well, Durant is the only other guys requiring touches when WB is out there. He doesn't have a Rudy/Boogie duo to create shots for and he'd certainly get complaints if he did and instead jacked the ball up 20 times a night.
Rose was another when healthy, yet there also were few guys requiring the ball on Chi. It was all Rose, all the time, and had to be aside from occasionally setting up Boozer/Deng.
Parker/CP3 score, yet comparing their mindsets and rhythm of play, how they set up the offense and teammates is night and day compared to IT. They move the ball consistently for the majority of a game and look to score when needed. That's the key. They don't look into games thinking getting themselves off is the most important aspect.
Then you have guys like Lilland/Dragic/Wall/Kyrie, but not one of them has a Rudy/Boogie level duo they're charged with creating for and maximizing. Simply stating scoring PG's are important and that's why what IT is doing is fine, completely ignores the situations and roster structures the better scoring PG's find themselves in.
And this is important, if you decide as a PG that scoring is more important than setting up teammates, which guys like Rose and WB have done on occasion, then you better be good enough to win games for your team. IT isn't. He's not a Rose or WB who can iso regularly down the stretch and pull out a victory. He regularly gets hot for stretches but almost always disappears with the game on the line and even when exploding earlier in games he doesn't carry the team to a win. At that point you need your teammates, the same ones he regularly looks off.
Agree completely. My dislike for IT aside, the real issue isn't that he's a selfish chucker scoring PG, it's that he's one on a team that also has Rudy Gay, Demarcus Cousins and Marcus Thornton. Jerry and whoever else wanna think that IT is an elite PG, fine. Then get rid of one of Gay or Cousins and build the team around your "franchise" PG. But as far as I'm concerned I'm picking Rudy/Cousins over Thomas any day.
That's the thing, given successful 1-2 punches, if you are one who believes IT as a scoring PG taking 20 shots is a good thing, then you'd have to follow the premise that either Rudy or Boogie should be moved as three big time scorers doesn't work in this league. So to maximize IT's scoring you'd have to campaign for moving Rudy for a more defensive, spot up shooting SF and surround IT/Cuz with defenders/spot shooters.
Anyone think an IT/Boogie duo without Rudy and surrounded by role players would lift us into the playoffs? Or is it more likely a Rudy/Boogie duo surrounded by role players would accomplish that? It's one or the other, can't have three guys looking to score 20+ and have it lead to success.
And that's why I have such a strong stance against IT's scoring/ball domination. It goes beyond a game here or there. When you put it in actual context you see it's a failed strategy. We're not maximizing any of our top 3 players. Even if you plug in Ibaka/Sefalosha next to IT/Rudy/Boogie, one of them won't be maximized. You'd have to split them up like Parker/Manu/Duncan or WB/Durant/Harden, or you have one taking a complete back seat like Bosh does with Lebron/Wade, yet you ask IT to take that much of a back seat and you're taking away all his strengths as a player, nor are Lebron/Wade dependent on Bosh to get them shots. No, Chalmers crosses halfcourt and hands them the rock.
Anyone think an IT/Boogie duo without Rudy and surrounded by role players would lift us into the playoffs? Or is it more likely a Rudy/Boogie duo surrounded by role players would accomplish that? It's one or the other, can't have three guys looking to score 20+ and have it lead to success.
And that's why I have such a strong stance against IT's scoring/ball domination. It goes beyond a game here or there. When you put it in actual context you see it's a failed strategy. We're not maximizing any of our top 3 players. Even if you plug in Ibaka/Sefalosha next to IT/Rudy/Boogie, one of them won't be maximized. You'd have to split them up like Parker/Manu/Duncan or WB/Durant/Harden, or you have one taking a complete back seat like Bosh does with Lebron/Wade, yet you ask IT to take that much of a back seat and you're taking away all his strengths as a player, nor are Lebron/Wade dependent on Bosh to get them shots. No, Chalmers crosses halfcourt and hands them the rock.
why the singular? they have several. James and Wade protect the basket about as well as any seven footer this league have to offer, Andersen and Bosh, for all their deficiencies in man-to-man lowpost defence, are fairly effective stopping penetrators and swatting shots, and then there's Battier taking charges. protecting the rim from penetration isn't really their problem. rebounding, defending big men that know how to pass and make quick decisions with the ball, or defending the three-point line? entirely different issue.
True that.
The thing that surprises me most about the IT complaints on the board is that they often go to the offensive side. IT has very good offensive numbers. He scores and he gets assists. The Kings as a team have pretty good offensive numbers. I would argue that the numbers are quite good given that these guys have been playing together for like a month. The numbers are likely to get better as they play together longer.
IT has issues on the offensive side, don't get me wrong. But for a guy in his 3rd year, playing with guys for the first time I think it is going pretty well.
You are right though defensively IT has bigger issues and the team D just plain stinks.
The thing that surprises me most about the IT complaints on the board is that they often go to the offensive side. IT has very good offensive numbers. He scores and he gets assists. The Kings as a team have pretty good offensive numbers. I would argue that the numbers are quite good given that these guys have been playing together for like a month. The numbers are likely to get better as they play together longer.
IT has issues on the offensive side, don't get me wrong. But for a guy in his 3rd year, playing with guys for the first time I think it is going pretty well.
You are right though defensively IT has bigger issues and the team D just plain stinks.