[Grades] Grades v. Lakers 03/02/12

[pshn80]

I think you are a very perceptive basketball fan. It's not always about the assists, and he rarely makes the hockey assist in large measure because he appears to just not have that mindset. The thing I noticed with Tyreke is that when he played pg his assists were "inside-outside" assists predominantly, not "outside-inside" assists. By that I mean that he drives, gets very close to the basket, then if it's walled-off, he kicks the ball outside. And, of course, many times the shooter doesn't make it because we don't have great shooters (as you have pointed out). What I didn't see very much from Tyreke were the outside-inside assists - getting a layup for a teamate close to the basket. Two reasons for that: 1) by the time Tyreke drove to the basket it was very clogged next to the basket, leaving little room for the inside pass, and even if the pass were completed in traffic, it made it very difficult for the finisher to finish; and 2) because Tyreke's outside shot isn't respected, defenders are backing off of him, clogging the lane, and not leaving room for guys to slip in to get the close-in basket. So, it's not just shooting percentage and points scored that is affected by Tyreke's shooting. It's the way he's forced to pass the ball. If he can just get a decent 18 footer, then it will be much easier for him to make the outside-inside assists and for others to move without the ball under the basket.

Very good description. I agree that is one of the two biggest problems for Tyreke at the PG. The other being his very deliberate speed of getting the ball up court and, particularly, after getting there using up many seconds ofter leading to meaningless or poor passes and resulting in poor forced shots by whoever gets the ball. We have none of that when he is off the ball. And I want him in the lineup whereever else we play him.

 

[Hadlowe]

I also think that it helps him to be the main scorer when he out there. Tyreke and Thornton are black holes and Isiah and Jimmer at the same time is too hard defensively.

Actually, no. Jimmer is best as the third scoring option on the floor. Notice that in the last two games when Jimmer started dropping points, it came at the same time as little runs by Cisco and Salmons. The other team's defense had to play honest on their guys and it spaced the floor enough to open Jimmer up. Where he will shine is when his teammates draw enough attention to keep his guy from hugging him all around the court.

I do love that he dropped a long 3 right in CP3's face in the Clipper's game. Of course, that pissed off Paul enough that he ran roughshod over our guys the entire second half.

 

[pshn80]

Actually, no. Jimmer is best as the third scoring option on the floor. Notice that in the last two games when Jimmer started dropping points, it came at the same time as little runs by Cisco and Salmons. The other team's defense had to play honest on their guys and it spaced the floor enough to open Jimmer up. Where he will shine is when his teammates draw enough attention to keep his guy from hugging him all around the court.

I do love that he dropped a long 3 right in CP3's face in the Clipper's game. Of course, that pissed off Paul enough that he ran roughshod over our guys the entire second half.

I think you're right on both counts. Don't get CP3 mad but keep Fredette shooting.

 

[sqwalk]

Smart is bringing in the bench way too late. Instead of having the starters play a grueling 14-16 minutes in a row and then have the bench in, inevitably running out of time to bring the starters in to close the half, Smart should play the starters for 7-8 minutes, bring in the bench for 6-8 minutes, and then the starters in to close the half. It keeps the starters fresh, ensures the best talent is on the court for crunchtime, and the bench still has a chance to actually impact the game.

I agree. I don't understand why Smart keeps leaving the starters in the game the entire 1st quarter most of the time - unless someone is in foul trouble. Like other teams he needs to start rotating the bench players around the 4 minute mark, so the starters will have time to close the first and second halfs.

Like others have stated, Smart's substitution pattern is very odd. He frankly rides the starters too long which makes him ride the bench too long going into the end of the halfs.

 

[IfAt1st]

Smart rides the starters too LONG?!

Um, look at the boxscore against the Lakers:
Gasol 37 minutes
Bynum 40 minutes
Kobe 37 minutes

Many starters on winning teams play 37+ minutes every game.

I don't know if Smart plays the bench too much because that's his habit (bad), or if it's because the starters aren't giving him what he requires (good).

 

[Glenn]

Smart plays some of his starters 14-16 minutes in one stretch. Then he is trapped into playing his bench for the next 8 minutes. He is burning out his starters. It's not how many minutes per game but how many minutes at a stretch. Instead of having fresh players all the time by substituting every 8 minutes or so, he runs his starters into the ground. Maybe other coaches have done that but I don't recall who.

Perhaps his starters get tired after the 8-10 minute mark.

 

[rainmaker]

Smart rides the starters too LONG?!

Um, look at the boxscore against the Lakers:
Gasol 37 minutes
Bynum 40 minutes
Kobe 37 minutes

Many starters on winning teams play 37+ minutes every game.

I don't know if Smart plays the bench too much because that's his habit (bad), or if it's because the starters aren't giving him what he requires (good).

Here, I completely agree. And it's not a knock on our bench. They played great last game, and have in the previous few as well. But this constant sitting starters for damn near the entire 2nd, and the majority if not all of the 4th is taking it too far.

Almost negating the effectiveness of the bench because the starters sit so long they lose their rhythm, they get cold. Like it or not, and this isn't directed at you, but we're either going to win or lose with IT/MT/Reke/Cuz. And letting them play through it in the 4th is how they develop and actually learn how to win games, not by sitting and watching.

Of course some games maybe Reke is completely off, or MT is off, and their backup is killing it. In that case I understand riding the backup to the end. But that's different then just sitting our starting lineup for 15+ minutes at a time.

 

[rainmaker]

Smart plays some of his starters 14-16 minutes in one stretch. Then he is trapped into playing his bench for the next 8 minutes. He is burning out his starters. It's not how many minutes per game but how many minutes at a stretch. Instead of having fresh players all the time by substituting every 8 minutes or so, he runs his starters into the ground. Maybe other coaches have done that but I don't recall who.

Perhaps his starters get tired after the 8-10 minute mark.

Not pulling them earlier is an issue I agree on. I do think mins per game comes into play though as starters should be playing 35 mins a night. When they're down in the 20's, and even the low 20's it is an issue imo. Switching roles throws players off. Just as bench players aren't used to starters minutes, starters aren't used to bench minutes and trying to get it going after sitting for 45mins- an hr, as they did the other night when counting timeouts, deadballs, stops in action, halftime, etc.

 

[IfAt1st]

Evans had a ok game coulda played better d missed easy layups and still hasnt made a shot smh¡

And yet he still shot 50% from the field w/ 14 pts and only 1 TO. Yes I'm smh too.

Wow - do KF's actually think that when the boxscore shows Tyreke shot 7 for 14, it means that he made 7 outside shots?!

The VAST majority of Tyreke's "shots" are layups.
I would guess ~85% of them are.

I asked before, and I seriously cannot remember more than a handful of made jumpshots by Tyreke in the past..... MANY games.
I just checked 82games, basketballreference, and a few ESPN game shot charts, and I can't find a definitive stat about how bad Tyreke is on his shots outside of 10 ft. But I couldn't find one made outside shot by him in the past few games.
ESPN's Shot Chart isn't accurate, and never works for Kings games - oddly it works fine and filters for other teams. I've NEVER gotten it to work for Kings players, but it does for other team's players - very odd to me.
82games shows Tyreke's "eFG%" as .293 on jumpshots, and watching this season I KNOW that's not accurate. There's no way in hell Tyreke is shooting 3 for 10 on shots outside of 10 ft or so. It shows his Clutch jumpshot as .176 which I would believe. 1 for 6 might be close.

I actually am glad that Tyreke realizes how bad his outside shot has become, and he turns down almost every shot he gets now, no matter how wide open. Teams are literally daring him to shoot, and he now knows he can't make them. That's growth, in a crazy way. It's up to him whether he will work on it and fix it for next season.

 

[IfAt1st]

Here, I completely agree. And it's not a knock on our bench. They played great last game, and have in the previous few as well. But this constant sitting starters for damn near the entire 2nd, and the majority if not all of the 4th is taking it too far.

Almost negating the effectiveness of the bench because the starters sit so long they lose their rhythm, they get cold. Like it or not, and this isn't directed at you, but we're either going to win or lose with IT/MT/Reke/Cuz. And letting them play through it in the 4th is how they develop and actually learn how to win games, not by sitting and watching.

Of course some games maybe Reke is completely off, or MT is off, and their backup is killing it. In that case I understand riding the backup to the end. But that's different then just sitting our starting lineup for 15+ minutes at a time.

I totally agree with this approach -
let's go further.

Does Smart have the ability/skill to note when ONE starter isn't having a good game and then get his backup in and ride them if/when they're playing well?

In my memory, Smart pretty much platoon-substitutes, and plays lineups together. IIRC he stated this strong preference early in the season, and he said it was "to help them play as a cohesive unit". I don't think Smart believes in swapping out/in one guy who is playing particularly well/bad that game. It would impact the "cohesiveness of the unit".

So when the backups are playing well, he plays almost ALL the backups together, and keeps them there.
It doesn't seem to me that he has the ability or skill to swap out players individually.
He seems to reveal group-play dynamics - I don't know if this is a more sophisticated bball coaching concept, or if it reveals rudimentary team knowledge that he can't sub in parts to make the group play its best.

 

[Glenn]

Do jump shots count more than layups? All this focus on Tyreke's jump shot ignores his frequently unstoppable layups. 14 pts are 14 pts no matter where the shot comes from. These arguments are getting silly.

 

[Tetsujin]

Do jump shots count more than layups? All this focus on Tyreke's jump shot ignores his frequently unstoppable layups. 14 pts are 14 pts no matter where the shot comes from. These arguments are getting silly.

You obviously missed the rule where teams with a player who scores on crazy lay-ups are banned from winning. Not to mention, I heard they make you trade all of your draft picks.

 

[Glenn]

You obviously missed the rule where teams with a player who scores on crazy lay-ups are banned from winning. Not to mention, I heard they make you trade all of your draft picks.

Actually it's probably the SG rule. Your points don't count unless they come from distance. I think the personal need to appear intelligent blinds some people about what happens on the court.