[Grades] Grades v. Knicks 3/26/2014

[Spike]

I meant he'll never average 5+ a game. Yeah he had 5 last night. One of them was just off a good play that he made. The rest were basically him handing the ball back to Cousins or Gay and them splashing down jump shots.

Isn't that what our current starting PG is doing?

I'd like to see another extended stint to see if we get more 1st quarter Ray or 4th quarter Ray, but it probably isn't likely.

 

[hrdboild]

I meant he'll never average 5+ a game. Yeah he had 5 last night. One of them was just off a good play that he made. The rest were basically him handing the ball back to Cousins or Gay and them splashing down jump shots.

He just had 5 assists in his first career start. Don't you think it's a bit early to say he'll never be able to do that consistently?

 

[Bricklayer]

Um, he kinda did last night. (10/6/5)
It might be too early to say never.

I think most PGs in the NBA could average 5ast given the minutes. Its just a question of whether it would ever be worth it to give an uncreative guy like Ray those minutes. he kind fo has backup written across his forehead right now, not floor general.

 

[Bricklayer]

all reserves are finished

 

[Spike]

I think most PGs in the NBA could average 5ast given the minutes. Its just a question of whether it would ever be worth it to give an uncreative guy like Ray those minutes. he kind fo has backup written across his forehead right now, not floor general.

I guess it depends on what we ultimately want from our starting PG. I'll take unimaginative 5 ast if the defense is there, especially if the creativity comes from Cousins and Gay.
That said, I don't know that McCallum is the guy long term, but I'd like another extended run to see which showing was the aberration. Yeah, I've got a soft spot for the coach's kid.

 

[Siranthony]

I just watched the forth quarter. It was nice to see such competitiveness. The big three this game where Cousins, McLemore and McCallum. Nice to see the rookies coming around. I also like Malone's press conferences. He has improved also.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I guess it depends on what we ultimately want from our starting PG. I'll take unimaginative 5 ast if the defense is there, especially if the creativity comes from Cousins and Gay.
That said, I don't know that McCallum is the guy long term, but I'd like another extended run to see which showing was the aberration. Yeah, I've got a soft spot for the coach's kid.

I "love" the implication that McCallum could peak out at Earl Watson-level, as if Earl Watson sucks. As if that's the worst thing that could possibly happen.

Earl Watson was a second round pick, who's had a thirteen-year NBA career, and was even a starter, at one point. I know some of you point snobs like to look down on players who can't get you twenty a night, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a young Earl Watson.

 

[The_Jamal]

I "love" the implication that McCallum could peak out at Earl Watson-level, as if Earl Watson sucks. As if that's the worst thing that could possibly happen.

Earl Watson was a second round pick, who's had a thirteen-year NBA career, and was even a starter, at one point. I know some of you point snobs like to look down on players who can't get you twenty a night, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a young Earl Watson.

Hey Mr. assumption pants. Who said Earl Watson sucks? Try reading my posts for once.

All I said was Ray's game reminds me of him. Good ball-handling, Good defense, pretty eh playmaker and struggles to score. Obviously too early to pigeonhold Ray into an Earl Watson ceiling, but that's what I see out of him currently.

 

[ESP47]

He just had 5 assists in his first career start. Don't you think it's a bit early to say he'll never be able to do that consistently?

It's not just the 5 assist total, it's how you get the 5 assists. You can have Reggie Evans get 5 assists playing PG by walking the ball across half court and throwing it to Cousins on the wing for contested jumpers. If Cousins is shooting well, Evans will get his assists. McCallum had the majority of his assists in the 1st quarter when the team was shooting lights out. It wasn't because he was making anyone better. The team was shooting well despite McCallum's uncreative play.

Yeah it's early but even after 1 start I'll still say that he will never even be an average play maker. He's played enough minutes this year for me to see what he's got as far as ball handling and passing goes. Like has been said about McLemore, ball handling is rarely improved upon entering the NBA if you don't already have a good handle. There aren't many guys out there that come in and average 3 assists a game and then improve up to 8 assists or so. Go look at random PG's per36 stats and see if you can find any. I looked at about 10 players and Earl Watson is the only one that started with a fairly low rate and ended up being pretty solid. If Ray can turn into Earl Watson that would be fantastic and exactly what you'd want out of a 2nd round pick. I think he can be like Watson defensively and shooting wise, but the jury is still out if he can make plays like Watson.

I wouldn't even have brought this up but the 'IT to the bench, McCallum to start' next year chatter that I've read lately has had me shaking my head. There is a huge difference in talent between the two. Even if McCallum improves, he would have to play next to a ball handling SG to be effective. McCallum and McLemore do not compliment each other at all and we've seen what happens when we try and rely on Gay to play point forward. He can do it in small doses but he fails miserably when he's forced to do it for stretches.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

The McCallum hate is so confusing lol. He has barely played any NBA minutes yet. sheesh

 

[peacelate]

The McCallum hate is so confusing lol. He has barely played any NBA minutes yet. sheesh

The McCallum love is equally confusing.

Three weeks ago when he accumulated even less total minutes, people hinted he might be able to take over IT's starting role by next season!

 

[The_Jamal]

The McCallum hate is so confusing lol. He has barely played any NBA minutes yet. sheesh

Hate? I have yet to see a single person "hate" on McCallum. Just people giving their very early opinions on him. After all, what's a basketball forum for if not for giving opinions?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Hey Mr. assumption pants. Who said Earl Watson sucks? Try reading my posts for once.

All I said was Ray's game reminds me of him. Good ball-handling, Good defense, pretty eh playmaker and struggles to score. Obviously too early to pigeonhold [sic] Ray into an Earl Watson ceiling, but that's what I see out of him currently.

That was precisely the point: you keep saying that, as if you think that a second-round pick having the same ceiling as another second-round pick who, incidentally, has lasted thirteen years in the league, is a bad thing. So what if that is his ceiling?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's not just the 5 assist total, it's how you get the 5 assists. You can have Reggie Evans get 5 assists playing PG by walking the ball across half court and throwing it to Cousins on the wing for contested jumpers. If Cousins is shooting well, Evans will get his assists. McCallum had the majority of his assists in the 1st quarter when the team was shooting lights out. It wasn't because he was making anyone better.

That appears to be a common trait among Kings point guards.

 

[KingMilz]

That was precisely the point: you keep saying that, as if you think that a second-round pick having the same ceiling as another second-round pick who, incidentally, has lasted thirteen years in the league, is a bad thing. So what if that is his ceiling?

Earl Watson was not a guy you wanted to be playing you when he was in his prime so if Ray is as/becomes as good as prime Earl Watson thats a excellent pick up for a 2nd round pick. Earl was a fringe starting PG for a number of years and did in fact start on a number of teams. If Ray can become a PG other PG's don't really enjoy playing against that's beyond fantastic.

 

[peacelate]

That was precisely the point: you keep saying that, as if you think that a second-round pick having the same ceiling as another second-round pick who, incidentally, has lasted thirteen years in the league, is a bad thing. So what if that is his ceiling?

So you can't compare players based on skillet because they were drafted in the same round?

The term "ceiling" doesn't have a negative connotation. It's simply an evaluation term e.g. best case scenario.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

The McCallum love is equally confusing.

Three weeks ago when he accumulated even less total minutes, people hinted he might be able to take over IT's starting role by next season!

There's thing called... what is it... oh yeah, defense (haven't seen it from the other starting PG for a long time now). Yeah McCallum can do that, and good.

 

[The_Jamal]

That was precisely the point: you keep saying that, as if you think that a second-round pick having the same ceiling as another second-round pick who, incidentally, has lasted thirteen years in the league, is a bad thing. So what if that is his ceiling?

What's your deal? Not eat your wheaties today or what? I'm obviously not saying it as if it's a bad thing at all.

As he's had all of 300 minutes in the NBA, I'm not ready to say that's all he can be. As of RIGHT NOW, Ray's game reminds me of Earl. I think Ray can be better, as he's a better athlete than Earl was.

That clear enough for you?

 

[Bricklayer]

There's thing called... what is it... oh yeah, defense (haven't seen it from the other starting PG for a long time now). Yeah McCallum can do that, and good.

The thing with Ray is that if you are lacking creativity as a PG, then in order to make his defense viable as a starter what you need to do is what George Hill does in Indiana, or Mario Chalmers in Miami -- you need to basically turn yourself into a 3 and D guy at the PG. In essence Ray, who was a natural driver in college, not shooter, is going to have to go into this offseason and work on his shot. And work on it, and work on it.

And the other thing: we are going to have to petition the league to undue the Tyreke "trade". Because those guys are made viable as starters by Paul George, by Lebron James. We had the big ball dominant power wing who could do most of the creating while the PG 3 and Ds. We gave it away. Now we have a Ben. That doesn't work as well. Ben is like a broke, homeless, one legged blind toothless syphilis infected version of Ray Allen (who was a far far FAR better ballhandler) or Peja. He needs a Rondo.

 

[LPKingsFan]

What's your deal?

 

[peacelate]

There's thing called... what is it... oh yeah, defense (haven't seen it from the other starting PG for a long time now). Yeah McCallum can do that, and good.

There's more to being a starting point guard than playing defense.

 

[sdballer]

There's more to being a starting point guard than playing defense.

This actually made me giggle

 

[peacelate]

This actually made me giggle

Is that why teams are falling over themselves to start guys like Toney Douglas?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So you can't compare players based on skillet because they were drafted in the same round?

I guess you decided it was your turn to not read posts all the way through?

The term "ceiling" doesn't have a negative connotation.

This is not an absolute. It depends on what player the "ceiling" is being set at.

What's your deal? Not eat your wheaties today or what? I'm obviously not saying it as if it's a bad thing at all.

As he's had all of 300 minutes in the NBA, I'm not ready to say that's all he can be. As of RIGHT NOW, Ray's game reminds me of Earl. I think Ray can be better, as he's a better athlete than Earl was.

That clear enough for you?

Clear as mud, perhaps. If what you claim you mean was "obvious," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[peacelate]

So if Watson was a solid player his entire career, what exactly are you complaining about?

McCallum has unlimited potential. The sky is the limit. Happy?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm complaining about what I interpreted as the use of Watson as a "negative" comparison. My read on the post in question was that, if McCallum only got to be as good as Watson, that it would considered to be a bad thing, and I disagreed with that.

I wasn't actually stumping for McCallum in the first place. I certainly don't think that he has "unlimited" potential, and would be quite happy if he capped out at Earl Watson. Or, to simplify, I didn't get involved in this to "white knight" for McCallum, I got involved in this to "white knight" for Watson.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I'm complaining about what I interpreted as the use of Watson as a "negative" comparison. My read on the post in question was that, if McCallum only got to be as good as Watson, that it would considered to be a bad thing, and I disagreed with that.

Post in question:

Ray reminds me quite a bit of Earl Watson. Solid defense, Solid ball-handler. Can't really do much else yet.

Not seeing where you are reading that an Earl Watson type is a bad thing for a second rounder. Seems like a good comparison so far.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's the first time Watson was mentioned in this thread, but that's not the post that I objected to. That's why I didn't quote it.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

That's the first time Watson was mentioned in this thread, but that's not the post that I objected to. That's why I didn't quote it.

All of the posts in this thread mentioning Watson:

Agree about the Watson comparison.

I guess it depends on what we ultimately want from our starting PG. I'll take unimaginative 5 ast if the defense is there, especially if the creativity comes from Cousins and Gay.

Not seeing the Watson hate

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's because you don't have your Special Edition Citrus X-Ray Specs.