[Grades] Grades v. Jazz 12/8/2015

[k_dubb90]

When WCS is back, i personally wouldn't be too against trying out a Rondo - Casspi - Gay - Cousins - WCS lineup. Ben has been tearing it up lately. Might be interesting in short spurts.

Malone worked a lineup like that with JT a few times. Defensively it's the best we can do

 

[Double-K]

I know I was the one that suggested a Rondo + Collison combo. I now realized how wrong I was. I apologize for any discomfort that thread might have caused.

 

[Amit149]

Exactly. You might not beat Golden State playing big, anyway, but you can't beat them playing small. Nobody can. You're better off committing to playing big, presuming that you have the personnel, and rolling the dice.

I agree with you and rainmaker that if you have the right players for it you should try and play big against them (I disagree that in general you have a better chance going big instead of small).

My question (and where I think we differ) is how does that personnel looks like in your mind, and how many teams you think can actually pull it off? because in my mind there is a very limited number of teams that are better off doing that.

 

[DeMoN]

I dont think Collison is a good enough catch and shooter, a Rondo and Seth backcourt on the other hand..

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

My question (and where I think we differ) is how does that personnel looks like in your mind, and how many teams you think can actually pull it off? because in my mind there is a very limited number of teams that are better off doing that.

Let me put it this way: I think that there are more teams with the personnel to pull it off than there are coaches of those teams with the guts, character, et. al to go through with it.

 

[206Fan]

Golden State didn't exactly deny Cleveland from shooting layups. Cleveland denied themselves because it is, in fact, true that they can't guard Golden State's lineup with two bigs on the floor. You say that they made the post entry pass hard, but Mozgov still killed them. But Blatt panicked, and that's the bottom line. He thought that he could go big, and Golden State would immediately wilt, and Golden State didn't immediately wilt, and then Blatt lost the courage of his convictions. He suddenly got on that, "It's not going to work, I need to go small! IT'S THE ONLY WAY!" tip. And, of course, it didn't work.

Nobody has tried to go big with the Warriors for a whole game, much less a whole series, except for the Grizzlies, and they just don't have the bodies/youth to do it. A lot of teams have flirted with going big, but it's obvious that in their heart of hearts, they don't believe in it. We need a team with a coach that both has the personnel and the faith in his system to go big, and stay big. Maybe it'll work, and maybe it won't. We already know what won't work.

Help me Obi-Wan Popovich. You're my only hope.

Cavs lost because they didn't have. Love and Irving...simple as that.

And let's not act like Cousins is super efficient against the Warriors.

If we roll out Rondo-Casspi-Gay-Kofus-Cousins

They'd just counter anyways with Curry-Klay-Green-Ezeli-Bogut. They might even swap out one of the forwards with Barnes.

It's not like the Warriors can't go big...they have talented defensive bigs.

It's extremely hard to match up against the best player in the NBA.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'll take my chances against their big lineup.

 

[206Fan]

Who graded Ben? To say that he was the reason for the Jazz SG scoring 35pts is ridiculous.... Ben was amazing on defense.

He's not disappearing on offense, his teammates just refuse to get him the ball. Hows that his fault?

Smh.

 

[Amaranth]

I really like when Caspi and Gay are on the floor together. It reminds me of the Hedo and Lewis combo several years back on the Magic. Teams had a tough time stopping those two, I don't see why we can't do the same thing with Caspi and Gay

Omri, Rudy, Rondo and Cousins are a great combination. I feel like that fifth spot is pretty interchangeable, doesn't matter whether it's Ben or Marco or anyone else.

 

[rainmaker]

Who graded Ben? To say that he was the reason for the Jazz SG scoring 35pts is ridiculous.... Ben was amazing on defense.

It always helps to read the actual words written.

"where Ben's stubborn refusal to keep contact with his men aided a 35pt night by the Jazz SGs"

In no way equates to "the reason for".

SMH.

That wasn't "amazing" defense either. While good 1v1 at times, I'll never attach amazing to someone who doesn't know when or where to double team the post.

 

[Amit149]

Let me put it this way: I think that there are more teams with the personnel to pull it off than there are coaches of those teams with the guts, character, et. al to go through with it.

In defense of league coaches GS didn't face SA, OKC, Miami or the Cavs (with Kevin Love this time) so far this season... and those teams along with the Clippers (DJ crashing the boards) are probably the one's best suited to match up against them.

And it's not true that all teams resorted to small-ball:
The Clippers did play DJ and Blake together for big minutes in both games against the Warriors,
Memphis went with the usual Z-Bo-Gasol pairing,
Utah played Gobert and Favors,
Toronto tried JV and Scola (the first game, JV didn't play in the 2nd),
Detroit started Drummond, Morris and Ilyasove together,
Brooklyn played Brook and Thad Young as usual,
The Hornets started small but tried everything (including 18 minutes of Kaminsky and Hawes).

If we roll out Rondo-Casspi-Gay-Kofus-Cousins

They'd just counter anyways with Curry-Klay-Green-Ezeli-Bogut. They might even swap out one of the forwards with Barnes.

No they won't, and tha's exactly the point- if they would adjust to the other team like that they would be easy to beat... the point is most teams can't really hurt them by going big when they go small.

If we roll out Rondo-Casspi-Gay-Kosta-Cousins they'll counter with Curry-Klay-Iggy-Barnes-Green.
Pack the paint, double or triple team Cousins and rain open threes on offense... and that's what's special (to be honest they will probably go more traditional most of the time with Bogut or Ezeli against that Kings lineup to make life easier for Green... but they can absolutely go small against that).

 

[Bricklayer]

Who graded Ben? To say that he was the reason for the Jazz SG scoring 35pts is ridiculous.... Ben was amazing on defense.

He's not disappearing on offense, his teammates just refuse to get him the ball. Hows that his fault?

Smh.

You always think he's amazing on defense.

I think your definition of amazing and my definition of amazing differ somewhat.

 

[VF21]

You always think he's amazing on defense.

I think your definition of amazing and my definition of amazing differ somewhat.

 

[206Fan]

It always helps to read the actual words written.

"where Ben's stubborn refusal to keep contact with his men aided a 35pt night by the Jazz SGs"

In no way equates to "the reason for".

SMH.

That wasn't "amazing" defense either. While good 1v1 at times, I'll never attach amazing to someone who doesn't know when or where to double team the post.

Here's the thing, everytime Ben does double the post, people here complain that he's leaving his man open. I mean...I could go back to game threads of certain members embedding tweets calling out Ben for "leaving his man open"
However now, we're criticizing Ben for not leaving his assignment in order to double the post?

You always think he's amazing on defense.

I think your definition of amazing and my definition of amazing differ somewhat.

Defense is always amazing.

Ben was our best defender yesterday so I do think he played amazing defense because he checked Hood and Burks all night. He gave their guards a lot of trouble. He even gave Hayward problems when he matched up on him.

I'm still really optimistic about Ben. So yes, my definition of amazing is different, but mostly because I think his defense was one of the biggest reasons why we won.

 

[VF21]

Here's the thing, everytime Ben does double the post, people here complain that he's leaving his man open.

If people complain, it's because Ben has no idea of WHEN to double the post and when to stick with his man come hell or high water.

 

[Npliam]

I'd like to see somebody do it, anyway. Anybody. I'm convinced that, if it fails, it'd be because of how the coach instructs his team to play defend.

I'm sick of watching every team try to match up to the new hotness. Coach to your personnel, preach defense, and trust in it. Just once, I'd like to see a team say, "**** it, we're not going to bother trying to match up with you. If we stay big for forty-eight minutes, you can't stop us, either. Let's see what kind of rhythm you're able to get into when somebody doesn't let you set the pace." Like, I hate to make this sound like I'm making it just about the Warriors but, like, the Warriors are basically playing a big game of chicken with the rest of the league. They're pretty much out there, like, "You know what? You're going to blink first. You might have some success against our defense early with your big lineup, but you're going to blink first. Because, we're going to come out firing from three, so you're not going to bother trying to figure out if we can actually shoot over your big lineup for forty-eight minutes. You're not going to bother trying to figure out if we can keep this up if your bigs get our glue guys in foul trouble. You know why? Because you're going to blink first. You're going to see us score forty in the first quarter, and you're going to panic, and you're going to abandon your principles, and try to go small to match up with us. And that's when we've got you!"

If we had a coach who preached defense first, last and in-between, I'd love to see a lineup of Rondo, Casspi, Gay, Cauley-Stein and Cousins. That's a lineup that could do some things, but you'd have to pull a Hinkie and Trust the Process™. That's not a squad that you could quit if the payoff wasn't immediate, but I'm sure that our coach would.

I feel like you are describing a healthy Jazz team. Our coach is that coach.....

 

[Npliam]

That just goes to prove that he didn't have the courage of his convictions. Or he was never really that convicted, to begin with.

I mostly slept/daydreamt my way through the three years my parents made me go to Sunday School, but I seem to remember something about a mustard seed that I think would apply...

Lol.....