Grades v. Hornets 01/08

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
GRRRFFFFFF!!!!

I'm really not sure what to do with these after such a pathetic loss. Feel like I should go back and rewatch it to see who is responsible, but I never tape these things:

Peja ( A- ) -- very aggressive offensively. Got himself started from the beginning of the game with an uncharacteristic mix of inside hoops, and then moved outside and started really lighting the Hornets up from all over the floor. One thing that I liked tonight was that he made his teammates better on offense -- my steady critique of the idea of Peja as franchise player is that he doesn't make others better, just concentrates on himself. But tonight he set several guys up for open jumpers, including Bibby for his game tying three at the end of the 4th. Disappeared late in the game and in OT to earn the "-".
Webber ( C+ ) -- wasted a tremendous start to this one -- in the first quarter he ignored the back to back situation, attacked the middle, finished the first quarter with a 10pt 10reb double double. Very Duncanesque. But calmed down therafter, and it became clear that despite the inside work, really did not have the legs on the jumpshot at all. Kept his head about it for a long time, but started to struggle and get jumper happy down the stretch. Forgot how he was scoring early. Got to the line a lot -- unusual for him -- and knocked down the FTs. But was irrelevant at best, and a hindrance at worst, down the stretch of the game. Just ran out of gas.
Miller ( B+ ) -- grabbed aggressive boards up and down the floor, and was willing to take just enough shots down the stretch to help us hang in there. Big numbers, but for the second night in a row something was missing. Just never seemed to take over the game for any stretch. More like game long solid work on the glass than any one stretch where he grabbed every one and was actually unstoppable.
Christie ( B- ) -- started the game with great energy on defense and leading our passing attack, but was once again unable to sustain. Had Baron under control, but started to lose it in the third quarter. In what is becoming an interesting pattern, again found himself pinned to the bench down the stretch because of the play of Maurice Evans. Not sure we saw him after the third quarter. And not sure whether that was a good idea, because Doug wasn't playing a bad game and I wouldn't have minded having SOMEBODY out there to guard all those perimeter bombs the Hornets were hitting.
Bibby ( D+ ) -- how to grade this? Came back to earth with a real thud, but hit the huge shot to tie the game in the last couple of seconds and then led us in OT. Sometimes the fatique card gets played too much, but certainly looked like it today. Briefly came alive during the third quarter, but until his late revival just a game long struggle on offense, missing open shot after open shot. Began to struggle on defense as the game went along as well. These are the nights where not having Bobby really kills us. Carried us offensively in the OT with Webb long gone and Peja pulling one of his disappearing acts but also repeatedly blew defensive assignments vs. Baron Davis and Dan Dickau down the stretch and in overtime, leaving them to kill us formt he three point line.
Ostertag ( C ) -- almost an incomplete. Not as bad as last night, but basically came in again and did a whole lot of nothing. Did not return for a second half stint, and that was fine because he didn't earn one.
Evans ( B ) -- moved squarely into the role of 6th man this game, playing the whole way down the stretch and into OT in place of Christie. Extremely efficient offensive game again, and his energy was critical in keeping us in it. But we're beginning to get a better feel for Mo on defense now, and he is NOT a consistent stopper at this point. Guess we were encouraged by his performance against Marbury, because we kept on trying to put him on Baron Davis tonight. But a no go for the most part -- just unable to contend with Davis' quickness, and down the stretch was missing guys out on the three point line.
Songaila ( C+ ) -- came in during the second quarter and continued Webb's aggressive play on the glass. A little more of the same in the second half, but certainly no real impact.
Martin ( C- ) -- short first half stint where he didn't do much. Abruptly that bench is starting to look pretty shallow again. Got to be a little concerned here that Kevin doesn't play himself out of the rotation the way Barnes did last month. Needs another good game here to restore momentum.


Adelman ( C ) -- started out the game as well as you could ask -- we were doing all the things we always talk about, rebounding, defending, hustling. But ouos shooting sucked, and we could never open up a big lead. Worse yet, our laziness finally bit us in the butt. We would open up little 10 pt leads get sloppy, and the lead would evaporate just instantly. And we let the Hornets hand around so long that they believed -- all it took then was for them to go unconscious from the three point stripe, and boom, instant loss. Rick tried the bench, and the bench pretty much sucked. Big move of the game was also debatable -- Rick found and obviously trusts Mo Evans. And Mo was playing well. And the end result in this game was that Rick actually went with Mo exclusively throught the 4th and OT, and left Doug sitting on the bench. Mo gave us energy as always, and Bibby stepped up and hit the clutch shot to tie it. But our perimeter defense was so awful down the stretch that not having Doug out there just felt...weird.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#2
I'm really not sure what to do with these after such a pathetic loss. Feel like I should go back and rewatch it to see who is responsible, but I never tape these things
Grades are good. No need to rewatch it. Would give You an ulcer at least
 
#4
I agree with the grades....as usual. The Kings thought that the Hornets are going to the basket more so thats why maybe the Hornets were getting wide-open perimeter shots.
 
#6
starks said:
Peja didn't disappaer late in game and OT .....he was ignored by Iverson (read: Webber) and Biby....
I didn't see the game, were there plays where he was wide open and they just didn't hit him with a pass, or was he not involved because he did that thing where he stands on the opposite sideline just watching the play?
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#7
starks said:
Peja didn't disappaer late in game and OT .....he was ignored by Iverson (read: Webber) and Biby....
The blaming of Peja's lack of offense on Webber and Bibby is getting old. Sorry, but I saw Peja with the ball late. I saw Peja miss 3 or 4 shots that I can think of right off the top of my head. And, I saw Peja actually pass the ball to someone who was more open than he was. Now, tell me again how that is Webber and Bibby's fault. :rolleyes: Yes, Peja had a great game, so someone was obviously getting the ball to him. Even the Hornets announcers were commenting that all of the Kings were getting the ball to and "riding" Peja's hot hand.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#8
Kev.in said:
I didn't see the game, were there plays where he was wide open and they just didn't hit him with a pass, or was he not involved because he did that thing where he stands on the opposite sideline just watching the play?

Hard to score 37 from "opposite sideline just watching the play"
 
#9
6th said:
The blaming of Peja's lack of offense on Webber and Bibby is getting old. Sorry, but I saw Peja with the ball late. I saw Peja miss 3 or 4 shots that I can think of right off the top of my head. And, I saw Peja actually pass the ball to someone who was more open than he was. Now, tell me again how that is Webber and Bibby's fault. :rolleyes: Yes, Peja had a great game, so someone was obviously getting the ball to him. Even the Hornets announcers were commenting that all of the Kings were getting the ball to and "riding" Peja's hot hand.
Geez 6th, didn't you see Webb and Bibby yelling Brick at Peja on those shots? Obviously, the only reason he missed was them.
 
#11
Why doesn't Rick tell Bibby and Webb to stop the masonry on nights like this? Or at least draw up some more plays for Peja... Damn.

What I'm trying to say is while I respect Bibby and Webb for having the confidence to keep shooting even when they're missing (something Peja doesn't do well), seeing them go 12-42 and Peja go 13-23 hurts my eyes.

Peja also needs to drive strong to the hoop more late in games. Especially if he's hot like he was -- pump fake and drive, get to the line. Want to see more of that.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#12
Oh geez...

I don't have much problem with the grades but some of the comments crack me up. Pedja didn't get the ball because Webber kept ignoring him? I guess I must have been watching a different game. Bibby deprived Pedja of opportunities? Yeah, sure he did.

Pedja disappeared right about the time Nachbar fouled out. It was almost as though he figured he'd done enough and didn't have to do anything more - especially on defense and rebounds.

It is really almost laughable how the need to justify any wrongdoing or misdoing on Pedja's part HAS to turn into blame against either Webber or Bibby.

I can't even begin to give a team grade. It just doesn't seem to matter. Too many factors contributed over the course of the game to keep this one from the W column.

I do think DC might have made a difference in the stretch and I don't think he was sitting there because RA had more faith in Evans. As has been pointed out, I think the blow to DC's leg when he was on the court going for the loose ball (thanks for reminding me, 6th) could very well have made Mo the only logical choice. I hope that is the reason because if not, I would have to really question RA's judgment in not putting the ONLY real defender on the team back in - at least for the overtime.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
Vlad said:
Why doesn't Rick tell Bibby and Webb to stop the masonry on nights like this? Or at least draw up some more plays for Peja... Damn.
Oh, good. Another Pedja homer.

I wish all of you would give it a big bleeping rest. This is the Sacramento KINGS, not the Sacramento Pedjas. He's PART of the team; not the whole thing. The constant whining about how badly he's treated and how big mean Webber and Bibby just keep stealing his thunder is a crock. Why not talk about his abysmal rebounding?

I love Pedja's game and I am very glad he's part of the team. I am, on the other hand, totally fed up with the irrational comments continually made in his behalf. He doesn't whine; I don't see why some of you ALWAYS have to point fingers elsewhere to try and build him up.

Blech!
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#14
Kev.in said:
Oh. ok.

And what does this have to do with my question about Peja getting "ignored" late in the game?
Kev - He wasn't ignored. Primarily, he took himself out by just not trying as hard as he had earlier. As soon as Nachbar fouled out, Pedja just looked like he wasn't that interested any longer.
 
#16
VF21 said:
Oh, good. Another Pedja homer.

I wish all of you would give it a big bleeping rest. This is the Sacramento KINGS, not the Sacramento Pedjas. He's PART of the team; not the whole thing. The constant whining about how badly he's treated and how big mean Webber and Bibby just keep stealing his thunder is a crock. Why not talk about his abysmal rebounding?
Blech!
Very predictable, VF. I'm not a Peja homer. I hate his soft play, how he doesn't seem to care on some nights, and how he doesn't demand the ball late in games. It aggravates the hell out of me. I love Bibby and Webb for all they bring (esp. the things Peja doesn't). I even revised my comments as soon as I could because I knew you would say I was a Peja homer. But I guess I wasn't fast enough.
 
#17
6th said:
The blaming of Peja's lack of offense on Webber and Bibby is getting old. Sorry, but I saw Peja with the ball late. I saw Peja miss 3 or 4 shots that I can think of right off the top of my head. And, I saw Peja actually pass the ball to someone who was more open than he was. Now, tell me again how that is Webber and Bibby's fault. :rolleyes: Yes, Peja had a great game, so someone was obviously getting the ball to him. Even the Hornets announcers were commenting that all of the Kings were getting the ball to and "riding" Peja's hot hand.
Bibby is the point guard he has the Ball down the stretch.Peja scored 10 points in 2 minutes. a 3 ball a steal and a layup another 3 and a couple foul shots.Toward the last 2 minutes Bibby the point guard elects to go pick and roll with a cold off at that time WEBBER who barley entered the game.When webber was on the bench before that run to take the lead Bibby found and made it for peja to have the ball by isolating him against his defender or peja coming off the screens.They clearly went away from this the last 2 minutes of regulation and the 5 minutes of OT by going 2 man pick an roll Bibby and Webber.
 
#19
VF21 said:
Oh, good. Another Pedja homer.

I wish all of you would give it a big bleeping rest. This is the Sacramento KINGS, not the Sacramento Pedjas. He's PART of the team; not the whole thing. The constant whining about how badly he's treated and how big mean Webber and Bibby just keep stealing his thunder is a crock. Why not talk about his abysmal rebounding?

I love Pedja's game and I am very glad he's part of the team. I am, on the other hand, totally fed up with the irrational comments continually made in his behalf. He doesn't whine; I don't see why some of you ALWAYS have to point fingers elsewhere to try and build him up.

Blech!
watch the replay of the game the final 2 minutes you will see.Watch the offensive execution down the stretch you will see.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#20
shaka zulu said:
Bibby is the point guard he has the Ball down the stretch.Peja scored 10 points in 2 minutes. a 3 ball a steal and a layup another 3 and a couple foul shots.Toward the last 2 minutes Bibby the point guard elects to go pick and roll with a cold off at that time WEBBER who barley entered the game.When webber was on the bench before that run to take the lead Bibby found and made it for peja to have the ball by isolating him against his defender or peja coming off the screens.They clearly went away from this the last 2 minutes of regulation and the 5 minutes of OT by going 2 man pick an roll Bibby and Webber.
Although, I hear what you are saying, and some of that did take place, I did watch the game and I saw Peja with the ball several times. Did he get it every time. No! Of course not. There were times that Peja flat could not get free. I wonder why that was. Peja had just burned them bad. Do you honestly think that Bryron Scott is going to tell his guys to leave Peja alone. Heck no! They started doubling him. And yet, some people can only see that Peja stopped scoring so it must be Webber and/or Bibby's fault.
 
#22
6th said:
Although, I hear what you are saying, and some of that did take place, I did watch the game and I saw Peja with the ball several times. Did he get it every time. No! Of course not. There were times that Peja flat could not get free. I wonder why that was. Peja had just burned them bad. Do you honestly think that Bryron Scott is going to tell his guys to leave Peja alone. Heck no! They started doubling him. And yet, some people can only see that Peja stopped scoring so it must be Webber and/or Bibby's fault.
If you watch the tape over again you will see peja open on 2 plays.The first Webber had tunnel vision he didn't see peja periphally and he was open.Another play Webber and bibby go pick an roll and Bibby gets the open look but peja was also open wide open.When you have a hot man even if he is duoble you must forc and find a way for him to get the ball or use him being doubled as an offensive decoy.The thing I would od as point guard would be go pick n roll with peja especially by him being the HOT MAN.They failed to go to ther strengths and the HORNETS did.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#25
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Places.















Or did you think that I was going to give out my ship's schedule over the internet? :|
Sorry, did not realize it is that sensitivve.

Anyways, you keep safe. There is always a next season for the Kings.
Play off game 7 will be shown on the "hardwood classic" many times anyways in the future.
Hope You have internet access at least
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#26
Vlad said:
Very predictable, VF. I'm not a Peja homer. I hate his soft play, how he doesn't seem to care on some nights, and how he doesn't demand the ball late in games. It aggravates the hell out of me. I love Bibby and Webb for all they bring (esp. the things Peja doesn't). I even revised my comments as soon as I could because I knew you would say I was a Peja homer. But I guess I wasn't fast enough.
I'm nothing if not predictable. I am also a TEAM fan and have had to deal with a lot of people who seem to think that one player has to stand out above the rest, even if they have to degrade those other players to make it work.

What I'm trying to say is while I respect Bibby and Webb for having the confidence to keep shooting even when they're missing (something Peja doesn't do well), seeing them go 12-42 and Peja go 13-23 hurts my eyes.
It's a good thing Bibby kept shooting because it was his buzzer three that even took us to overtime. As far as Pedja goes, if he's not open they can't pass to him. Nachbar did a pretty good job of covering Pedja, and their play got pretty physical at times. When you look for an open man, if he isn't open you have to either pass to someone else or shoot. That happened frequently tonight.

It wasn't offense that killed us tonight anyway, IMHO. It was a total and abysmal lack of transition defense. In addition, while we did okay on the defensive boards, our offensive rebounding was pathetic.

And that's one of the places Pedja HAS to step up. If he's not the one taking the shot, he could be going for the rebound. Does he? Occasionally, but even those stats are misleading because at least once he got his own rebound on one of those soft lay-ups.

People go back and point to one or two situations and act as though Pedja was being purposefully overlooked. That is simply and totally untrue. I'm sorry I made it appear as though my frustration was aimed at you, Vlad. I'm just tired of all the factions about who is better, who is being picked on, etc. They are a TEAM. They aren't stabbing each other in the backs. They want to win and they want each other to do well. The perceived slights are in the eyes of a small handful of fans and at times it gets to me.

Again, sorry.
 
#27
Another play Webber and bibby go pick an roll and Bibby gets the open look but peja was also open wide open.When you have a hot man even if he is duoble you must forc and find a way for him to get the ball or use him being doubled as an offensive decoy
The last thing you want to do is 'force' the ball to someone who is covered, especially when you have an easier, more high percentage shot somewhere else. How many times has Bibby WON the game on that play? How many times has Peja hit the shot to win the game, or send it to overtime? I can remember him doing it three times, all in one game.....against Toronto in, what, 99? 2000? Been a while.
 
#28
Kingsgurl said:
The last thing you want to do is 'force' the ball to someone who is covered, especially when you have an easier, more high percentage shot somewhere else. How many times has Bibby WON the game on that play? How many times has Peja hit the shot to win the game, or send it to overtime? I can remember him doing it three times, all in one game.....against Toronto in, what, 99? 2000? Been a while.
I agree with you, but I can remember 2 more times :) He had a killer 4tt against TPups last year in playoffs to send the game to OT and he hit a long 2 against Detroit for a win after a nice fake pass from Vlade.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#29
Kingsgurl said:
The last thing you want to do is 'force' the ball to someone who is covered, especially when you have an easier, more high percentage shot somewhere else. How many times has Bibby WON the game on that play? How many times has Peja hit the shot to win the game, or send it to overtime? I can remember him doing it three times, all in one game.....against Toronto in, what, 99? 2000? Been a while.
Watched any Kings games last season ?
 
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