Grades v. Heat 11/02

[NewMonkey]

Peja was also zero for the fourth quarter. Just saying. Anyone else see Kenny Thomas get pissed when he saw Shareef come to the table in the mid fourth? Kenny went and sat at the end of the bench (by himself) during the timeout that followed.

I've gone on record saying Kenny should be traded. It's not that I have anything against the guy - I just think he's (badly) underperforming. Seeing that happen in the fourth quarter tonight (and I'm sure it's not the first time) doesn't help me see things in a better light.

 

[playmaker0017]

That is how the team is made. It is an offensive team. Adelman and other team officials have said it many times that they must make shots to win.

That's what was said about other teams in the past - and they switch coaches and it's amazing ..... they start to play better defense.

Defense is about effort, communication and trust.

There is a skill involved, but for the most part - you can be a good to great defender in this league if you exert the effort.

When you watch us defensively, the players don't seem to communicate or trust each other. There are too many poor switches and two guys moving on a screen. It's really just bad.

It just shows poor coaching in that department.

 

[kiparking]

Many seem to point their fingers at Peja. True, he didn't do well. But as the team's primary shooting weapon, he is bound to have a few bad nights. The best he can do is have as fewer of those bad night as possible. Considering he just came out of injury, I think he deserves some understanding.

However, I am a little upset with Shareef. Yes, his games have been good in the last couple of games. Yes, he has been the most consistent. But with his ability, he should be more than just consistent. He is not a role player. He should be one of the team leaders. Unfortunately, he just isn't playing like one right now.

Some might say he is still adjusting to the team, but after all these games, he should show some sign that he is getting comfortable. IMO, he hasn't. It might be the team system, but still he should be doing better than that.

No, I am not talking about just today's game. He was stuck inside with one of the greatest center in Alonzo always keeping his eyes on him(although it still is no excuse to have only 3 rebounds...). My problem with him is the whole season up until this point.

Some might still doubt him, but a lot of you would agree that he is at least a 19 points, 8 rebounds per game guy. I personally think he can even play 20+ points, 9 rebounds games, easily. He was forced to play much less significant role in Portland, but he still scored more and rebounded as much in comparison to this season. With his role in the Kings, he should at least score more than just 15 points. He hasn't.

Is he just getting too comfy as a role player? His ability is still greater than that, and his accomplishment hasn't been even comparable to many old great players who are now accepting the smaller roles. It is still too early for him to just play okay games. He should be showing some dominance. I just don't see the intensity.

I love SAR. I want him to show Nets rue the day they refused to sign him. Nothing is sadder than proving right of those who overlooked you. If he doesn't start showing his true form, it just might become true.

 

[vj9999]

When has this ever happened? If he puts up his career average, I'd be fine with it. He can't even compare to Webber. Webb's averages included significant rebounds and assists. Also people had an unnatural fixation on his FG% even when he strung together a series of TDs. He shot his average percentage and was above average everywhere else. Peja has consistently been below average. Where's the injustice here?

Did you watch Seattle game about 3 weeks ago?

 

[playmaker0017]

I know you are a Reef homer, and I do have soft spot for Peja, but I am far from a player fan. I honestly try to present my self as a team fan first.

I guess I just have a weakness for defending players that everybody else is ready to lynch It just gets hard to take a role like that year after year. Last year it was Webber bashing, this year it is Peja (and I am not saying that there is no reason to bash him). Heck... there was a point in time when people were bashing Doug Christie every day.

People need someone to point a finger at.

Peja is the front man right now. He's trying to get a huge contract and is on the cusp of all the trade talk.

RA is also the source of a lot of bashing.

After Peja goes, I'm sure it will be a Bibby-fest.

 

[vj9999]

People need someone to point a finger at.

Peja is the front man right now. He's trying to get a huge contract and is on the cusp of all the trade talk.

RA is also the source of a lot of bashing.

After Peja goes, I'm sure it will be a Bibby-fest.

Agreed.

 

[Twix]

I'm not blaming Peja for this lost...although he did help the Kings lose. I think it was Kings defense and Heats played good D. Kings played a bit better D in 4th but couldn't make any shots. It wasn't just Peja, but some big shots was missed by Brad and Bibby. And Turnovers hurt...

 

[playmaker0017]

However, I am a little upset with Shareef. Yes, his games have been good in the last couple of games. Yes, he has been the most consistent. But with his ability, he should be more than just consistent. He is not a role player. He should be one of the team leaders. Unfortunately, he just isn't playing like one right now.

I, too, think that Shareef is a major talent. I think he's also been extremely underutilized in Sacramento.

He's averaging 10-11 shots in Sacramento and producing 15-16 points. That's actually not too shabby.

RA is starting to give Reef more plays and Reef is starting to be more aggressive. Think about it - if Mourning doesn't block 4 of Reef's shots tonight, Reef has 20-22 points. Mourning blocked Reef on 4 dunks.

Granted, even with those dunks, Reef only has 11 shots.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Until this team COMMITS to getting the ball into the low post, in Shareef's hands, a majority of the time ... we will continue to be inconsistant.

 

[Kings113]

Many seem to point their fingers at Peja. True, he didn't do well. But as the team's primary shooting weapon, he is bound to have a few bad nights. The best he can do is have as fewer of those bad night as possible. Considering he just came out of injury, I think he deserves some understanding.

Agreed.

On SAR, I'm not taking 1 or 2 games and getting down on him though...

 

[Ryle]

Yeah, Peja totally killed the Kings tonight.

If Peja can't shoot he does kill the Kings because he does nothing else.

 

[SacDoug]

Shareef's average over the last two years is 16 PPG. So far this year, he has been at 15.6 PPG. His rebounds is slightly higher than the last two years. 7.5 the last two years and 8.1 this year.

This is his 10th year in the league and he is on the downward side of his career.

 

[Kings113]

If Peja can't shoot he does kill the Kings because he does nothing else.

He usually plays defense and passes. From what I've seen over the last 2 or 3 years anyways. Think he is inconsistent on driving to the basket though.

 

[playmaker0017]

If Peja can't shoot he does kill the Kings because he does nothing else.

Which is why I've said he's completely expendable.

The Kings should be looking hard at a solid defender at the 3 spot that doesn't require shots to be effective. Artest might be that guy but I worry about him because he requires too many offensive touches.

There was a different feel to our energy levels and our style of play while Peja was out ... and I truly feel it is a chemistry thing.

I heard something about Deng for Peja - but I don't know enough about Deng.

 

[vj9999]

Is there anyone on this team who is not completely expendable?

 

[Kings113]

The Kings should be looking hard at a solid defender at the 3 spot that doesn't require shots to be effective. Artest might be that guy but I worry about him because he requires too many offensive touches.

There was a different feel to our energy levels and our style of play while Peja was out ... and I truly feel it is a chemistry thing.

I heard something about Deng for Peja - but I don't know enough about Deng.

Artest/Peja isn't happening.

What about the Nuggets/Bucks wins? Peja was real good in them both.

I'd love Deng for Peja, but I'm not sure on the Bulls doing it. Luol Deng is a stud!

 

[playmaker0017]

Shareef's average over the last two years is 16 PPG. So far this year, he has been at 15.6 PPG. His rebounds is slightly higher than the last two years. 7.5 the last two years and 8.1 this year.

That's just a complete misnomer to look at it that way.

Reef could EASILY be replicating his numbers from Vancouver or Atlanta. Give him 16 shots a night and you'll see.

Before being traded to basketball purgatory in Portland, Reef averaged 20.1 in Atlanta on 14.9 shots a game. That's damn efficient.

This is his 10th year in the league and he is on the downward side of his career.

You seem to forget that he's younger than Kevin Garnett. 29 is NOT the downward side of your career. It's prime.

 

[playmaker0017]

What about the Nuggets/Bucks wins? Peja was real good in them both.

Granted.

He's an excellent shooter. EXCELLENT.

But, that's all he is.

With the right pieces around him and the right environment - he'll thrive. The problem is - he isn't THAT guy ... and he thinks he is and so does the coach.

I'd love Deng for Peja, but I'm not sure on the Bulls doing it.

From what I heard - the Bulls REALLY want to do it.

 

[4cwebb]

Which is why I've said he's completely expendable.

The Kings should be looking hard at a solid defender at the 3 spot that doesn't require shots to be effective. Artest might be that guy but I worry about him because he requires too many offensive touches.

There was a different feel to our energy levels and our style of play while Peja was out ... and I truly feel it is a chemistry thing.

I heard something about Deng for Peja - but I don't know enough about Deng.

Artest would be the guy imho, even if he needs shots...at least he's going to bring other things to the table on the other end of the floor (which only Bonzi is currently doing consistently out of our starters).

Deng would be fine with me as he has some athleticism and size. Haven't watched him play much at this level, though. Wonder if he needs PGs that create for him (he has those in abundance in Chi-town).

Kings just don't seem to approach games with any true sense of urgency at this point. It's almost as if they've accepted that they aren't a 50-win team anymore. Frustrating to listen to from a fan's perspective.

 

[playmaker0017]

Is there anyone on this team who is not completely expendable?

When you are sub-500 ... no one is not expendable.

But, just look down the roster - what position is more easily filled?

The deal with Peja though is that we either need to do something or sign him. The reason I find him more "expendable" is partially due to this.

 

[Kings113]

Granted.

He's an excellent shooter. EXCELLENT.

But, that's all he is.

With the right pieces around him and the right environment - he'll thrive. The problem is - he isn't THAT guy ... and he thinks he is and so does the coach.



From what I heard - the Bulls REALLY want to do it.

Whatever on the Peja stuff, I'm still the same (based on what I've seen and noticed). I don't quite think he's a T-Mac/Ray Allen-level player.

Last I read the Bulls wouldn't be going after Peja now (I've read they wanted him or something in the past)... when did you hear of them wanting to? I love Deng.

 

[4cwebb]

Granted.

He's an excellent shooter. EXCELLENT.

But, that's all he is.

With the right pieces around him and the right environment - he'll thrive. The problem is - he isn't THAT guy ... and he thinks he is and so does the coach.



From what I heard - the Bulls REALLY want to do it.

If the Bulls are really into a Deng for Peja trade, wonder if the Kings can get someone else of significance off that roster as I don't see Petrie doing that deal straight up. Bulls would presumably have to take one of the CWebb-three off of the Kings' hands as well. Sweetney anyone, or has he now taken Songaila's starting job (or is that Andres Nicioni (sp?))? I know there's no way Kings get Chandler, but I can dream, right?

 

[playmaker0017]

Last I read the Bulls wouldn't be going after Peja now (I've read they wanted him or something in the past)... when did you hear of them wanting to?

Right before the injury.

But, from what I've heard - they kind of soured on the notion as Peja sat out with his sore hand. I think the lack of "toughness" really pushed them away.

I'm still willing to bet a deal could be worked.

 

[SacTownKid]

That's what was said about other teams in the past - and they switch coaches and it's amazing ..... they start to play better defense.

Defense is about effort, communication and trust.

There is a skill involved, but for the most part - you can be a good to great defender in this league if you exert the effort.

When you watch us defensively, the players don't seem to communicate or trust each other. There are too many poor switches and two guys moving on a screen. It's really just bad.

It just shows poor coaching in that department.

Good case of that is San Antonio. Sure they have the shot blockers but more than that they never quit moving on defense. Just movement and following the ball with your hands can do a lot to disrupt the other team. None of our guys pressure the ball like they should. Since we have no interior D its even more important for us to have that energy on D to compete.

 

[4cwebb]

When you are sub-500 ... no one is not expendable.

But, just look down the roster - what position is more easily filled?

The deal with Peja though is that we either need to do something or sign him. The reason I find him more "expendable" is partially due to this.

I slightly disagree --- Bonzi is the only one "not expendable" at this point, imho, as he's the only one bringing it every night. He may not shut his man down, and he may not be lighting up the league, but he's bringing effort night in and night out. If the Kings are going to do any type of rebuilding, it'd be nice to see them send a message to the rest of the team that the type of effort Bonzi is giving is expected from all.

 

[kiparking]

I am not knocking on SAR for one or two bad games. I am talking about his season so far in general. Yes, they are solid numbers. But he still isn't playing up to his full potential. The team system might be against his style, but even in his moments, there just isn't the necessary intensity.

I also don't think he is on the downhill. Even though he might not be so young, his experience as a veteran should give him more edge. I like that SAR is a humble player, but sometimes he is too meek for his own good.

I want SAR to show more flare in the game. Adelman could help him in that by giving him more plays. But in the end, SAR himself has to play harder himself.

 

[SacTownKid]

Artest/Peja isn't happening.

What about the Nuggets/Bucks wins? Peja was real good in them both.

I'd love Deng for Peja, but I'm not sure on the Bulls doing it. Luol Deng is a stud!

Deng is a stud but he really is a player that needs the ball and his go to moves are all solo plays going to the basket. He isn't that exceptional on D either. He boards better though. Nocioni is an energy guy on D, I would like him.

 

[playmaker0017]

If the Bulls are really into a Deng for Peja trade, wonder if the Kings can get someone else of significance off that roster as I don't see Petrie doing that deal straight up. Bulls would presumably have to take one of the CWebb-three off of the Kings' hands as well. Sweetney anyone, or has he now taken Songaila's starting job (or is that Andres Nicioni (sp?))? I know there's no way Kings get Chandler, but I can dream, right?

I would bet it would be a package and we'd send KT in the deal, but I've not heard any real specifics other than the Bulls wanted Peja and they were willing to move Deng.

I'd take any of these: Hinrich, Gooden, Piatkowski.

 

[Kings113]

Right before the injury.

But, from what I've heard - they kind of soured on the notion as Peja sat out with his sore hand. I think the lack of "toughness" really pushed them away.

I'm still willing to bet a deal could be worked.

Ah, well who knows then... but Petrie should jump on that if it's available.

 

[Ryle]

Is there anyone on this team who is not completely expendable?

Apparantely Adelman but I REALLY can't see why.....

 

[4cwebb]

Good case of that is San Antonio. Sure they have the shot blockers but more than that they never quit moving on defense. Just movement and following the ball with your hands can do a lot to disrupt the other team. None of our guys pressure the ball like they should. Since we have no interior D its even more important for us to have that energy on D to compete.

Not applicable, imho, as the Spurs have always had length and athleticism in their front court to mask perimeter defensive weaknesses. If Parker were a King his defense would be seen as Bibby-esque. If our perimeter guys pressure the ball and get beat, it means an uncontested layup. On the Spurs, that's just called "funneling the ball to the shotblocker".

Of course, Spurs also have that all-NBA perimeter defender as well, but other than him, I don't think any of the Spurs perimeter defenders are above average. I still recall David Aldridge saying years ago when Bowen played for the Heat and was a free agent that any team that signed him would automatically get better defensively, and that Bowen could help push a contender over the top. Guess DA knows what he's talking about (still don't know why ESPN got rid of him, btw).