[Grades] Grades v. Heat 02/21/12

[Mass]

So which part of what I said is false?

1) "Probably best for Jimmer to get traded" - Sacramento is a bad team with serious coaching issues. Also, the competition/confusion over guard positions makes the situation even more hairy (Thornton, Tyreke, Jimmer, Thomas, Salmons, etc.). So Sacramento is not a good match/fit for Jimmer - team composition wise, coaching wise, or simply just in the fact that Sacramento has a bad team. That's the truth and you can't deny it.

2) "What player in the NBA wants to play for the Kings?" - Any of you want to answer that? Kings have been one of the lowest-tier teams in the NBA for years. The city might lose the franchise. The fan support is poor. The coaching situation is ugly. The players are known to be selfish. What player is asking to play in Sacramento right now? None. That's the truth and you can't deny it.

3) Nothing more to say, but all lists look better with 3 points

There is a line between trolling and speaking the truth. Once you can discredit anything I said in that "troll" post, get back to me.

But you won't, because you know I'm right.

1) Why should Jimmer have big minutes right now? What has he done to prove he can stay on the court? Is he doing better than Thornton, Evans or Thomas? You keep mentioning bad coaching. I actually like what I'm seeing from Smart. He is still a work in progress, but he had so many issues when he got the job, it's hard to fix everything in 5 or 6 weeks. He is doing a great job on Cuz, we improved offensively, and he is trying to find the good rotations. Is he perfect? No, but much better than Wetphal. He is making mistakes sometimes, but remember he had no training camp, so he has to make experiments during the games. Jimmer right now is not playing because he is showing nothing. ANd believe me, I'm not a Jimmer's hater, I love him. I'm sure he will be good in the future, but right now he still has to make the transition from college to pro basketball.

2) Cousins. Hayes. Thornton. Thomas. I'm sure about those 4. In the past, Webber. Divac. Peja. Bibby. Christie. It's not a metter of the team, usually people don't want to play for losing teams. If the Kings find a way to get better and have some success, players will want to play here. There are only 3 or 4 teams that would attract big names even if they are bad (NY, LA, Chicago), and even in those case, success is not a sure thing. How many championship has NY won lately?
Anyways, your question does not make sense. I could do the same for a lot of teams in the NBA. Who wants to play for Charlotte? For Toronto? For Washington? For Milwaukee? And so on. Do you think Jimmer deserves to be a rotation player for a contender right now?
3) Great, you made me laugh here!

I'm not trying to attack you personally, but this Jimmer thing should stop. You Jimmer fans watch this team through Jimmer's lenses, so it's hard for you to be fair. We care about our team, Jimmer is just a member of it, not the focus of everything that's going on. And, to be fair, I don't know where he could have consistent minutes. Maybe in Charlotte or New Orleans, but they are much worse than us.

 

[BMiller52]

So which part of what I said is false?

1) "Probably best for Jimmer to get traded" - Sacramento is a bad team with serious coaching issues. Also, the competition/confusion over guard positions makes the situation even more hairy (Thornton, Tyreke, Jimmer, Thomas, Salmons, etc.). So Sacramento is not a good match/fit for Jimmer - team composition wise, coaching wise, or simply just in the fact that Sacramento has a bad team. That's the truth and you can't deny it.

2) "What player in the NBA wants to play for the Kings?" - Any of you want to answer that? Kings have been one of the lowest-tier teams in the NBA for years. The city might lose the franchise. The fan support is poor. The coaching situation is ugly. The players are known to be selfish. What player is asking to play in Sacramento right now? None. That's the truth and you can't deny it.

3) Nothing more to say, but all lists look better with 3 points

There is a line between trolling and speaking the truth. Once you can discredit anything I said in that "troll" post, get back to me.

But you won't, because you know I'm right.

1. A team isn't going to trade a rookie after 30 games, whether they suck or the fit is bad or there are guys in front of him or whatever. They are not going to get rid of him just to placate his fan base or make a rash move. Teams change, players change over the offseasons, coaching staffs change, etc.
2. There are a bunch of basketball players who would give their left nut to play for ANY NBA team. I like Jimmer, but he's not in a position to demand anything. He is lucky to be getting paid as much as he is at this point. Situations change over time.
3. What this really stems from is a lot of people disagree with you(and I disagree with SOME of them), your boy isn't getting much burn while he's on the bench, he's gotten lost in the shuffle and lost some of his confidence, he's not in the same role he was at BYU, this bothers you because you are purely a Jimmer fan, and when he isn't getting the star treatment that ruffles your feathers big time and you figure "well this team sux, jimmer is better than this team, these people make me mad, I'm gonna go make them mad!" or whatever under the guise of "preaching the truth". The fact is, yeah the Kings frikkin suck, our coach may or may not be a major idiot, our owners might be broke, our roster might be extremely poorly assembled, and on and on and on. The reverse also may be true: the kings may be on the verge of getting a new arena, becoming extremely profitable in the future, improving by quite a few games in the next 1-2 years, getting a nice new coach and some nice new owners, etc. He could be in worse situations. If you honestly think he'd be getting PT right now on a team like the Spurs or Thunder you're nuts.

I think Jimmer can become a really good player for us. But he's a rookie and in the NBA you've got to earn your time and make the best of bad situations. No amount of whining and throwing a fit and family members embarrassing themselves via the internet is going to change that, it just makes the player look worse and probably embarrasses them.

 

[UK_King]

I want Jimmer to succeed like every other Kings fan, but come on, that crying and whining by his brother is just sour grapes, Jimmer has been outplayed in his position and he's rightly behind Thomas. I hope Jimmer gets to a position where he can contribute but he isn't there yet.

For what it's worth, i'd doubt Jimmer would associate himself with them comments, seems to be a level headed guy in all respects.

 

[mac]

I envisioned Jimmer in pretty much the role that Garcia played for us - just your typical role playing guard that can shoot coming off screens, makes open 3s and can run the offense a little. Our guys need to learn to set better screens (and guards conversely need to use the screens better) for Jimmer to be really effective IMO. Anyway, I have little doubt that Jimmer will succeed in the future. He's a good team mate and a hard worker. Right now the attention of the coaching staff is more on getting the team to be consistent - finding an identity and getting a fixed system to play in, and getting the main guys (Reke, DMC and Thornton) to play consistently. It's kind of like constructing a building. First you need to get your foundations settled, which is our core and the team identity. Only then can you start to focus on adding to it, working out how to use Jimmer effectively, shortening your rotations etc.

Don't know about you, but me thinks it's quite a challenge to teach a team a new offense, learn to communicate with your players, find rotations that work consistently, teach DMC how to be a good center, teach Tyreke how to be a better point guard, work with Tyreke on his jumpshot, get Thornton to be a little less selfish, get Donte to be a more consistent shooter, get the team to cut down turnovers, play Jimmer 96mpg, make 2 rookies an integral part of the team etc etc etc without a proper training camp and not even a full season, and of course without having good vets to help out. Give Keith Smart a break, he's doing a decent job.

 

[Glenn]

Nice try, Italics. Try to put the focus on the team and not on Jimmer. The questions that need to be asked, and believe me, most of us are not unhappy with Jimmer, is why isn't he playing? Why can't he dribble in traffic? Why does he tend to get trapped? Why doesn't he have the confidence to shoot? Why can't he play any semblance of defense? Why is he letting a 60th round pick have his minutes as at the beginning of the year Jimmer was given a chance to strut his stuff. Jimmer lost his minutes if you recall correctly. He lost his minutes to the 60th round pick. It had nothing to do with the quality of the team or the quality of the coach. It had everything to do with Jimmer's quality.

It is not the team's responsibility to coddle any player that is not doing well unless they see huge potential. I suspect right now they see a guy who can shoot and that's about it. In Tyreke, Thornton, and IT, they see much more. So they play them. To get better, the team must play its best players.

Why isn't Jimmer one of those best players? What does he have to do to play any minutes? The problem isn't the team's problem but it is Jimmer's problem and he was given a great chance to play on a weak team that had only two veteran guards. He failed. Jimmer failed. He couldn't have come into a better situation with owners who were smitten by him. Despite the support of ownership, he failed.

 

[ppine]

I agree with Mass. IT was fearless last nite in Miami. That alone sets him apart from his teammates who are all tentative at times. The deck was stacked against DMC. Reke played pretty well, but I cannot stand his 4th quarter turnovers. The offense played with urgency and moved the ball better against a top defense. There was good movement in, and fewer forces with the ball back outside. Watching the Kings' team defense against Miami at home is an eye opening experience. All of our weaknesses were exposed. I was proud of the Kings for a change, and launched out of my chair in the third watching Isaiah. The small ball doubters need to ease up a little.

Management needs to consider some big changes for the future.

 

[Kingster]

Just some observations on tonight's game ..

Keep in mind that we didn't just put up 108 points on any old team, we put up 108 against a top defensive team.. a team that starts 4 plus defenders (Chalmers/Wade/James/Anthony). And a very low amount of those baskets were in garbage time. We did this without getting any real production from our steadiest offensive weapon in DMC. Offensively it was a very impressive performance.

Defense was another story.. but I can't even knock our defense THAT much. Honestly, the Heat are at least 12 points better than us, and that's how much they beat us by. I saw far to many lazy closeouts (or no closeouts at all) that resulted in basically 6 wide open Chalmers 3 pointers. Tack on 2 more wide open 3's for Lebron and that will sink you.

I know everyone is trying to pump the brakes on Isaiah Thomas. That's fine .. everyone has the right to be have the 'wait and see' approach. Let me just remind some of you that Isaiah Thomas is playing like Isaiah Thomas has always played. It's not like he doing things he has never been able to do .. he is doing things that he has ALWAYS been able to do. That's why I think he is the real deal. It was impossible to predict that his game would translate this well into the NBA, but it looks like it has. I think Jason Jones tweeted that in the 3 games Thomas has started the kings have averaged over 20 APG .. that's a number we were NOT hitting before we made the move... he's been quite good.

And I think on a normally structured team (where he is the shortest player in your starting lineup with a regular sized 2 and 3) his defense will not be a problem either.

With all that being said .. this does bring up a few long term problems. Who do we keep and who do we trade? I'm talking about IT/Thornton/Evans/Jimmer here. It doesn't seem logical to keep all of them on the roster. They all have value in the league .. and they could all help us bring in other pieces. And again, I'm not saying the move has to be made right now, but I'd like to have it figured out by next season, that's for sure.

Tough decisions need to be make across the board with this team. I hope we make the right ones this time around.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd say that Jimmer could be trade bait. But he's barely gotten into the league and it's not Petrie's style to deal a guy he just drafted. At the least you want to play him to get his trade value up. Still, you just have to look at the comparison between IT and Jimmer. What is Jimmer's greatest strength, by far? Outside shooting. And what did we see last night from IT? He hit 5 consecutive 3 pointers. IT beats Jimmer hands down in ballhandling/initiating the offense, and in defense. If IT comes close to Jimmer in outside shooting, then this case is closed.

I think they give Evans one more summer to see if he can add some pieces to his game, with the assistance of Smart & Co.

Thornton could be dealt. It probably depends on Thornton. He tries to do too much with the ball. He seems selfish to me. If he's receptive to limiting his game somewhat to more of a catch and shoot guy, then they might keep him. But he really doesn't have many facets to his game. He's a poor passer and a mediocre defender. So I can see him in a deal.

Everybody else, with the exception of Cousins, is trade bait.

 

[Warhawk]

Mods can we ban italics already? By the way I'm a Jimmer but not even a level headed Jimmer fan can stomach you. Go away already

I don't think you will see him posting for a while....FYI

 

[bajaden]

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd say that Jimmer could be trade bait. But he's barely gotten into the league and it's not Petrie's style to deal a guy he just drafted. At the least you want to play him to get his trade value up. Still, you just have to look at the comparison between IT and Jimmer. What is Jimmer's greatest strength, by far? Outside shooting. And what did we see last night from IT? He hit 5 consecutive 3 pointers. IT beats Jimmer hands down in ballhandling/initiating the offense, and in defense. If IT comes close to Jimmer in outside shooting, then this case is closed.

I think they give Evans one more summer to see if he can add some pieces to his game, with the assistance of Smart & Co.

Thornton could be dealt. It probably depends on Thornton. He tries to do too much with the ball. He seems selfish to me. If he's receptive to limiting his game somewhat to more of a catch and shoot guy, then they might keep him. But he really doesn't have many facets to his game. He's a poor passer and a mediocre defender. So I can see him in a deal.

Everybody else, with the exception of Cousins, is trade bait.

Jimmer is the least of this teams problems, so trading him would be trading him for the sake of trading him. He has talent, and he's cheap, so I don't see the point. I admit that I'm a Jimmer fan, but I believe that where he's at right now, is perfect for him. Getting experience where and when possible.. He's always been a team player, so he'll never cause unrest. The problem is with the rest of the personell on the perimiter. These are the players wanting minutes, and IT is biting into those minutes big time. You have Evans, Thornton, and Salmons, with Salmons considered the SF of the group. With IT in the starting lineup, someone has to sit down. You sit Salmons, and now Evans is your SF, a position I don't think plays to his strength. You sit Thornton and move Tyreke to the SG position, your taking one of your best scorers out of the starting lineup, and you left once again with Salmons, who has been nothing but a bust this season.

Esentially, the problem is at the SF position. We seem to be stuck with Salmons. Now if you can trade Jimmer for a good starting SF, then I'm on board. But I seriously doubt thats possible. You might have better luck with a combination of Outlaw and Whiteside. Yeah I know, Whiteside hasn't proved anything yet, but he's a young big, and teams are always willing to take a chance on a player like that. In truth, there is no easy answer. I've always been inclined to trade players, that I know can't fit what I'm looking for, and keep players, like Jimmer and Honeycutt, who haven't had a chance to get the experience they need. Especially when they're not costing you much.

I agree with you on Evans. Jury is still out on his long term abilities. I don't think Thornton is selfish, I just think he has this warrior mentality that takes over his game. The result might be the same, but the motivation is different. Cousins had a tough night last night, and it was obvious that the Heat were focused on him. The minute he touched the ball he was doubled and sometimes trippled. It was a very good learning experience for him. When you become a star, this is what you have to deal with night after night, so you need to adjust. And I have no doubts that he will.

 

[pshn80]

Yeah, sure, this is all about Jimmer, not the Kings trying to become a better team. I'm tired of this Jimmer fans who just care about their boy. What has Jimmer done so far to deserve more minutes? Do you really think he has done better than IT? If he isn't playing there's a reason, he is not ready yet. Do you think he would get a lot of minutes in a good team? Ask yourself why he isn't even playing in a bad team like the Kings.
If he was with the Spurs, Popovich would bench him forever after 2 defensive possessions...

A little heavy handed and over the top but I agree with you. Nothing in a game thread is about Jimmer. It's the KIngs. Jimmer has to keep working, on his own and with others and with the team. He's no where near there yet. Good luck, JImmer. Go Kings!!!!!

 

[Glenn]

I don't think you will see him posting for a while....FYI

Thanks. That completes a nice trifecta.

 

[ppine]

Watching the Kings abysmal team defense has made watch some Warriors games. Their defense is miles ahead of the Kings. I wish we could get a hold of a player like David Lee.

 

[Bricklayer]

Watching the Kings abysmal team defense has made watch some Warriors games. Their defense is miles ahead of the Kings. I wish we could get a hold of a player like David Lee.

haha -- for his DEFENSE??

 

[Kingsguy881]

haha -- for his DEFENSE??

Yeah, he's all world defense, with his undersized no defense playing self.