[Grades] Grades v. Hawks and Ourselves 2/10/2017

Ok, how in the hell do you grade Demarcus Cousins tonight?

  • A?

    Votes: 2 3.2%
  • B?

    Votes: 5 7.9%
  • C?

    Votes: 16 25.4%
  • D?

    Votes: 7 11.1%
  • F?

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • I don't care, I hate him

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • I don't care, we won

    Votes: 31 49.2%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .
#32
A very exciting 4th quarter. A lot of fun to watch. So much heart from our team. As usual the bench brought us back into the game. Cousins was awful most of the game. The defense was so much better in the 4th when Cousins was on the bench. But bringing him in at the end of a close game like that is money. Really, the bench is leading this team. I'm starting to think WCS is the future.
 
#33
Cousins was horrible for majority of the game but still went to the bench flirting with a triple double (quadruple double with TOs) but came back to be huge in the last 6 minutes.
 
#35
Ben McLemore the last 5 games:

30.4 MPG
13.8 PPG
2.6 PPG
1.8 APG
48% 3pt
60% TS

Sample size problems obviously, but this is the kind of production we've been hoping to get out of him. Let's see if he can keep it up.
He should start over Temple when he returns if he keeps this up
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#36
He should start over Temple when he returns if he keeps this up
I think he will given Joerger's early preference for not starting Temple anyway.

On the other hand, even this stretch of games has been very Ben like. He's not averaging 13.8pts and being a useful roleplayer. He's feast or famine at any one point. Either playing like a star or scrub. That's hard on a starting lineup, and our starting lineup has just struggled mightily to get itself going anyway.
 
#38
When I looked at the score and saw the Kings down by 15 at some point in the second quarter, I had a weird feeling that they will eventually come back in the fourth. And when I came and check again indeed they were back to within 3 in the fourth. And the next time I checked the score, they had a clutch win.
I don't know. But after a series of nail-biting games. Whether it's a win or a lose, some thing in me is growing and it's telling me that this team has already learned to be competitive and never gave up.

Seems like the good ole competitive games is back to Sacramento again.
 
#41
Collison always plays hard. He has had plenty of average games, but not for a lack of trying. I have always liked the guy.

McLemore is much more perplexing. The last 2 games have shown what he is capable of . It makes it really hard to figure out why in some games he is sleep walking and glides around the floor lost in the action. He has great physical skills even compared to most other NBA guards. I think he may have some mental issues.

Coach is putting his stamp on this team. In the NBA every team has talent. The difference between winning and losing is like a razor's edge, with thanks to Somerset Maugham.
 
#44
This team is starting to remind me of the raiders when del rio first came. Not winning the majority of their games but learning to be competitive
 
#45
I wouldn't trade Mclemore for the sake of it either. I've mentioned it in another thread before I would actually like to get him to sign a very team friendly deal in the offseason.

This team is starting to remind me of the raiders when del rio first came. Not winning the majority of their games but learning to be competitive
RAAAAIIIIDERS!!!
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
#48
I wouldn't trade Mclemore for the sake of it either. I've mentioned it in another thread before I would actually like to get him to sign a very team friendly deal in the offseason.
The McLemore thing is tricky, because you'd want to trade him while his value is highest, and I can't imagine it getting any higher. That said, he is a nice kid, and it'd sure stink to get rid of another young player, just before he finally puts it all together.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#51
The McLemore thing is tricky, because you'd want to trade him while his value is highest, and I can't imagine it getting any higher. That said, he is a nice kid, and it'd sure stink to get rid of another young player, just before he finally puts it all together.
Well, maybe not so very tricky if you tease it out. Given how many bodies we are stacked with at the position NEXT season, and his limited trade value THIS season we are really under no pressure with Ben, either to trade him or keep him.

Ben McLemore has been a primary component in the Kings suck for 4 long years. He's now played 5 mostly good games. He's done similar things in the past with no appreciable longterm development.

Now the latest tease is just before the trading deadline, but what we KNOW is that we already have Garrett Temple, Malachi Richardson, and Bogdan Bogdanovic in the organization and ready to takeover next year.

So, what Ben's surge really means is:

1) if it sputters again before the trade deadline, then you don't worry about trading him at all, its Ben being Ben, and good riddance
2) if the better play continues on, what it should really do is just mean you don't search for a 2nd round pick sort of dump deal. Ben has been such a bust you may not be able to get one anyway, and would normally consider yourself lucky. But if he's going to flash something, then maybe you don't do the dump move at this point. A 1st, sure. But not a second, not a cut. 30 more games in the season, see if Ben can sustain anything.
3) On the other hand, since we do know we will have Temple, Malachi and Bogdan, ALL of whom could individually be more valuable than Ben has ever been to us, you continue to make him available as part of larger packages that could patch a real hole for us at the deadline. In that case any surge Ben has ups his value and helps us.

Ben's a pure luxury item for us at this point. If he plays well we can afford to play him the remainder of the season with minimal damage to any development or opportunity lost via trade. If he plays poorly we can dump him and forget he was ever a King as soon as next season with all the new kids and Temple's scrap. There's really not much downside to the situation for us. If he had great trade value, then not trading him would be worrisome. If we had nobody to take the position next year, then trading him would be worrisome, or at least an adventure. But the situation is exactly the opposite now, so we're fine.
 
#52
If McClemore shoots like the team and fans envisioned him out of College, it would address one of the top needs the team has - IF IF IF(!). Tolliver seems be a more consistent 3pt shooter. If McClemore has an average game yesterday, the Kings lose by 5-10pts - a big reason for the win. It was his best game this year I think.
 
#53
Vlade - A

I can't stress enough how happy we should be to see how quickly he learned from his mistakes last year and brought this strong culture in. Add in the draft day moves that you'd expect from a very seasoned GM and I don't see how anyone could not be hyped to have Vlade.
What mistakes do you mean? Serious Q, because where the Philly trade is concerned - if we don't swap out of a lottery pick this draft, and our 2019 first is in the late teens, then he's out of mistakes.

Maybe stringing along the Karl thing last year for too long - if that was a Vlade call in any way... that last minute "you're not fired after all" was pretty bad
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
#54
Well, maybe not so very tricky if you tease it out. Given how many bodies we are stacked with at the position NEXT season, and his limited trade value THIS season we are really under no pressure with Ben, either to trade him or keep him.
Whatever 'pressure' may exist is a function of do we decide to let him go for nothing, or try to get anything at all. And it could only even be called 'pressure' in the sense that this is the last opportunity we have to get a return on our investment..
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#55
Whatever 'pressure' may exist is a function of do we decide to let him go for nothing, or try to get anything at all. And it could only even be called 'pressure' in the sense that this is the last opportunity we have to get a return on our investment..
The truth is, I truly don't care at this point. He can quit tomorrow and go live in a yurt in Mongolia and I don't think we are damaged in the least. He's been a complete scrub, one of the league's worst players. ANYTHING we get out of him, via trade or via a sudden Ben brain implant, is all gravy now. We are depending on him or his future for nothing. So its like a lottery ticket. Or...maybe more like a small dollar scratcher. If it happens it happens, if it doesn't, no biggee. You presumably have made alternative and superior plans on how to make your fortune anyway.

I cared when our pathetic front office couldn't smell the scrub years ago and trade him at a time when he still could have brought back significant returns. I suppose I cared a little bit when there was nothing else in the wings, although since I was never a believer I didn't consider Ben waiting in the wings either. But now? Ben is already off the team basically. He's gone, done, not part of the plans. So if he wanted to suddenly turn into an NBA shooting guard? All a bonus now. Anything that happens with him from here on out is all unlooked for bonus material that can only help.
 
#57
The McLemore thing is tricky, because you'd want to trade him while his value is highest, and I can't imagine it getting any higher. That said, he is a nice kid, and it'd sure stink to get rid of another young player, just before he finally puts it all together.
At this point I don't see the risk of keeping him, especially on a team friendly deal. He doesn't create chemistry problems. He has shown flashes. What we're likely to get for him, it's not like we'd be getting a sure fire contributor anyway.

If we trade him for another project (all young players are projects these days) we're still looking at a degree of risk that it won't work out, and the risk of integrating a new guy into our culture. At least Ben is part of the new culture. That, and the flashes he shows, might be enough to keep him. I tend to believe, that as long as he is on a team that continues to have faith in him and works with him, and as he is a good teammate not causing problems, that he would eventually mature into a solid rotation player. There is such a thing as a late bloomer. Especially if your first three years were blessed by the excellence known as the Pre-Vlade Era™.

I mean, doesn't Ben strike you as that kind of guy? Shy kid that needs someone to believe in him and have patience. Slow learner does not mean non-learner.
 
#58
What mistakes do you mean? Serious Q, because where the Philly trade is concerned - if we don't swap out of a lottery pick this draft, and our 2019 first is in the late teens, then he's out of mistakes.

Maybe stringing along the Karl thing last year for too long - if that was a Vlade call in any way... that last minute "you're not fired after all" was pretty bad
To be more precise, if all the above happens (specially late teen pick in 2019), he is not only out of mistakes, but he got rid of dead weight and started rebuild even earlier (late teen pick 3 years earlier) without giving away anything from the Kings perspective.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#59
At this point I don't see the risk of keeping him, especially on a team friendly deal. He doesn't create chemistry problems. He has shown flashes. What we're likely to get for him, it's not like we'd be getting a sure fire contributor anyway.

If we trade him for another project (all young players are projects these days) we're still looking at a degree of risk that it won't work out, and the risk of integrating a new guy into our culture. At least Ben is part of the new culture. That, and the flashes he shows, might be enough to keep him. I tend to believe, that as long as he is on a team that continues to have faith in him and works with him, and as he is a good teammate not causing problems, that he would eventually mature into a solid rotation player. There is such a thing as a late bloomer. Especially if your first three years were blessed by the excellence known as the Pre-Vlade Era™.

I mean, doesn't Ben strike you as that kind of guy? Shy kid that needs someone to believe in him and have patience. Slow learner does not mean non-learner.
That type of guy is the type of guy you can sign every single year in free agency, even if he were ever to become one.

As I've mentioned before, all the SG roster spots are already accounted for next year -- in fact there may not be enough minutes as it is for Malachi, Bogdan, and Temple -- and Ben is a pure SG without the ability to swing positions. The question kind of answers itself unless you are talking about some star level transformational player.
 
#60
I think it should have counted, at least by NBA continuation standards anyway.

The foul was whistled after Boogie had picked up his dribble and was fading back for the shot. Typically they count shots that occur after the dribble has been discontinued.
I could be wrong, but wasnt the foul against a different King before the shot? Im curious.