[Grades] Grades v. Hawks 03/11/12

Who needed to play much better for us to win?

  • Evans

    Votes: 19 54.3%
  • Thompson

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • Thornton

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Thomas

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • Garcia

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Greene

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hayes

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Smart

    Votes: 4 11.4%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
noooooooo.jpg


Well turnips.

Self inflicted wounds, selfishness, and youth as we made the Hawks look better than they are. Not a talent problem tonight per se, although I think we really only have 3 starters and then its a scramble. I noted just earlier today that Boogie was the one guy who hadn't played well for us this month. So he finally shows up...and the rest of the team promptly dives behind the nearest couch. Sigh.

Also, I'd wager a stale doughnut from Friday's office party that Sun Tzu probably had something to say about he who does not rebound and defend, as in they get their teeth kicked in and kinda ask for it.

Boxscore

Evans ( C- ) -- forcing his early drives, but doing a nice job rebounding and creating easy shots for others though. Very physical battle in there with the bigger Johnson, but had him contained for an half at least. Was basically the only one of the starters setting up teammates as he notched 7 of the starting lineups 9 assists, but the offense never came. Kept on backing off and shooting threes as the Hawks had him well defended. Layups rolling off and getting blocked again with all the long atheltes along the Hawks' forntline.. Trying to do the right thing again int he third and about the only guy passing out there, but just not efficient and far too many errors. Just looked a little out of synch all night. Still, one of those games where he was making contributions in every way BUT scoring, so not as bad as an 8pt night would otherwise be.

Thompson ( D+ ) -- a couple of offensive follows early but looked shaky trying to contend with Smith. Returned late in the second and no more able than anybody else to slow the Zaza train. Giving Smith too much space on his jumper in the third and got subbed out for Donte as we tried to stamp out the fire. His own contributions were a shrug, but just got lit up by everybody he played tonight, and that has to predominate in this grade.

Cousins ( A- ) -- well a big big game obviously as the guy who carried us all night, but also a game whihc highlighted that in the ened he really is still just a kid, as when he did make a mistake, it was inevitably of the just young and dumb variety. This is school now, with these guys learning their lessons right on display for the world. Gambled on defense against Zaza to start, allowing a layup, but made up for it a minute later with one of those spectacular most talented guy on the court plays, snagging a steal one handed to stop a Hawks break, then taking it up the court, crossing it over through Jeff Teague's legs, and going full length of the court for the finish on the break (see above). Wasn't consistently getting his body on Zaza in the early going though as Zaza more than heled his own in the first half. Thugged by OldManThug himself (Dampier) in the early 2nd and started getting tangled up with him. Got screwed by the refs too as they called a second foul on him as Dampier chucked him with a forearm at every opportunity. His third and 4th fouls later in the game were also just unnecessary learnign experience type deals, challenging jumpshooters carrying 2 fouls, charging into Josh Smith instead of jsut shooting an easy jumper etc. But the fouls, as they often have been, were about the only thing stopping DeMarcus. Just scoring past everybody, because that's what it was -- facing them up and just sghooting over them or going right around them. Rebounding picked up down the stretch, but made some bad mistakes as well trying to do too much, making bad decision on his passes, and on one notable play in the final two minutes perhaps overencouraged by his early game full court romp and tried to duplicate it rather than kicking it to any of the three point shooting guards we had scattered all over the court. Unsurprisingly the end result was we got 0 pts out of it as one of the plays that sealed the loss.

Thornton ( D+ ) -- hitting his early shots, but having troubles fumbling the ball all over the court. Did not get back in the game until the final minute of the half when he actually did a nice job on Williams in the post on defense. That was an isolated occurence to say the least. Turnaround in the high post to start the 3rd but somehow it never led anywhere as he rarely got the ball and didn't do much when he did. Mostly he just settled for threes. It was hard to tell how much was good Hawks defense (Hinrich was especially a pain) and how much was just a flat game by Marcus, among others. In any case, wasn't passing and was ineffective on defense to round out the subpar game. Did hit a big three in the late 4th to cut it to 5. But this time it was his turn to struggle in the final minutes, getting a drive swatted out, and forcing and missing a contested three.

Thomas ( D ) -- struggled in the early going, notching no points or assits but 2 fouls and 2 turnovers getting stripped once and with a really soft pass that was easily picked off. Had a brief burst to start the third with a good dive on the floor for a loose ball and then back to back threes. But notably it was Reke who set him up for one of those threes not the other way aroudn as he managed to notcha grand total of zero assists on the night, and he was not containing Teague the other way. By the end of the quarter Smart has seen enoguh and the reserves took over for the 4th.

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Bench

Garcia ( C- ) -- and then right back to Cisco the invisible this time out. Looking small and weak on the glass against the Hawks bevy of big athletic SFs. Got his hands on several balls on defense in the 4th and finally added a three in the final seconds after the game was decided, but this was an ineffective effort.

Fredette ( B ) -- hit a three against the clock off his dribble to close the first quarter and give us the lead going into the 2nd. Offensively aggressive in the 2nd and doing a nice job passing as well, setting up several backups for open shots. Three from Cousins as we surrounded him with shooters in the 4th. Didn't stop anybody, but then again neither did anybody else, so did not particularly stand out this time.

Greene ( C- ) -- came in and once again began things with a tough rurnaround in the post. Was doing a nice job swtiching onto guards and stopping them on the perimetere. But disappointingly was not able to slow his own men as first Marvin Willimas flashed skills he did not even know he had against Donte, and then when Donte was brought back in in the 3rd fro Jason in order to guard Josh Smith, which should ahve been a good matchup, Smith didn't even blink. On the last play of the third just before the buzzer was out on the break with Reke and Reke tried to drop him the pass at the last second but Donte has already left his feet looking for the follow if Reke missed, and we got nothing out of it. Missed both threes again, but the larger issue is that he is mostly used as a defensive stopper, or at least slower, and tonight that did not work.

Salmons ( B+ ) -- knocking down his early jumpers as he worked more off the ball this time, but also forced a dumb post attempt. Tough selfish shot in the 4th but followed it by knocking down a three from Reke. In the 4th had several just terrible bad pass turnovers trying to throw it ahead through three Hawks. Late 4th open court steal and layup helped cut it to 8. Didn't actualy notice him getting his assists, but the on target shooting was again just such an obvious 180 from his early season work.

Hayes ( D+ ) -- too groundbound to rebound at all agains thte atheltic Hawks and failed to come up with several that jsut any frontcourt guy has to grab for you. Took a terrible shot at a terrible time going 1 on 4 for no reason after we had just lost the lead in the second. Did make 1 good pass and eventually 2 layups, but unable to slow Pachulia, unable to board, and these are the things he's supposed to be able to do.
 
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Honestly: Cousins and Reke are our only for sure keepers. Thornton as well but his lack of defense is getting more and more visible after every game. He is shooting the lights out but if you see his +/-, he was around -8 even with his great shooting.

Salmons is playing better and so is Jimmer. Donte needs to stop shooting threes as I feel like he needs to use his athleticism and mid range skills better.
t
Kings need about one more smart basketball IQ player to add on this team.
 
Honestly: Cousins and Reke are our only for sure keepers. Thornton as well but his lack of defense is getting more and more visible after every game. He is shooting the lights out but if you see his +/-, he was around -8 even with his great shooting.

Salmons is playing better and so is Jimmer. Donte needs to stop shooting threes as I feel like he needs to use his athleticism and mid range skills better.
t
Kings need about one more smart basketball IQ player to add on this team.



Not the sort of thing I normally say, but in Thornton's case I think you seriously have to feed him a ton of shots so that his offensive potence outweighs his defensive impotence. If you starve him of shots, the other team gets to work on his defense wihtout him being able to strike back.
 
Not the sort of thing I normally say, but in Thornton's case I think you seriously have to feed him a ton of shots so that his offensive potence outweighs his defensive impotence. If you starve him of shots, the other team gets to work on his defense wihtout him being able to strike back.

i agree. and its why i maintain that the kings' future would be best served with thornton as a sixth man and leading scorer of the second unit. but that requires another guard who could sufficiently start alongside evans (when he's correctly starting at one of either guard positions). once again, i say the beno trade was a poor decision...
 
Cousins through the legs coast to coast score was almost identical to the one he did earlier in the year... pretty amazing for a big man.
 
while I agree with you DeMarcus going all the way was a sweet play. Still, I had this uneasy feeling that he would lose the ball at mid-court. I really feel that any big man that grabs a rebound should look to pass to his point guard.
 
This game is probably the final nail on the coffin of our playoff hopes, if ever there was or well at least for me, there was. Now let's start trading for a better roster next season and let's secure those lottery balls.

Any kid on the top 8 would surely help this team.

Here's what I got on my trading hand:
1.) Hickson - just not fitting on this team
2.) JT - if we go for a big in this draft, might was well JT go.
3.) Garcia - longest king in the roster, give him a run in the playoffs on another team
4.) Salmons - stock is rising again for not sulking and leading the bench
5.) Greene - maybe he'll get consistent minutes on another team
6.) IT - rose above all odds. but still expendable
7.) Thornton - probably the best asset to get at least a borderline all-star in return
 
Honestly: Cousins and Reke are our only for sure keepers. Thornton as well but his lack of defense is getting more and more visible after every game. He is shooting the lights out but if you see his +/-, he was around -8 even with his great shooting.

Salmons is playing better and so is Jimmer. Donte needs to stop shooting threes as I feel like he needs to use his athleticism and mid range skills better.
t
Kings need about one more smart basketball IQ player to add on this team.

+ - should jsut be removed as a stat. It's entirely worthless
 
+ - should jsut be removed as a stat. It's entirely worthless

Not really. Jimmer and Garcia were the only guys with a positive +/- tonight and you could tell they played well. It's not the most important stat ever or a final deciding factor but it's valuable if you take it for what it is.
 
Pretty interesting to hear Smart in the post game explaining how we lost this game on the defensive end, and how important defense is out closing out games.

Funny, because he had Jimmer/MT/Cisco all out there. He went small. He had his best perimeter defender on the bench. He had JT on the bench. He had Donte on the bench. To hear him state the importance of defense while intentionally putting a lineup out there which has proven to be poor defensively, is a joke.

He also spoke of a lack of late game execution. Well, you had a rookie who's stuggled with ball handling and any kind of defensive ball pressure. You had MT, who wasn't really hitting, and is the opposite of a creator. You had Cisco, who although may be a great off court leader, isn't any kind of a facilitator and is one of the most inconsistent shooters we've had over the last 7 years. We had no composure on the ball, and no one who could penetrate into the teeth of the defense and creator easy shots for others. That of course led to Salmons and MT forcing poor shots.

It's just amazing Smart can put that lineup out there the last 6-7 mins of the game, and then act surprised they couldn't get stop defensively, and didn't execute properly on offense. Well, you set them up to fail. Smart treats this roster like a little league team where everyone has to play and it's equal opportunity.
 
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Not the sort of thing I normally say, but in Thornton's case I think you seriously have to feed him a ton of shots so that his offensive potence outweighs his defensive impotence. If you starve him of shots, the other team gets to work on his defense wihtout him being able to strike back.

I dont think that will win us many games though. That is why I think he needs to come of the bench sort of like Jason Terry.

He might even get more minutes if he plays well off the bench since that is Smart's coaching style.

Starters: Thomas, Evans, Salmons, Thompson, Cousins
 
Not the sort of thing I normally say, but in Thornton's case I think you seriously have to feed him a ton of shots so that his offensive potence outweighs his defensive impotence. If you starve him of shots, the other team gets to work on his defense wihtout him being able to strike back.

That's why we either move Reke back to point, and immediately strengthen our backcourt defense, where Reke is actually good enough to cover some of MT's mistakes, or he plays more when Reke/Cuz aren't on the court, so he can freely jack up whatever he touches while being the entire focus of the offense.

Given IT is not only killing us defensively, against average starting pg's btw and not world beaters, and has increased tunnel vision while scoring less efficiently, I'd move Reke to point and run MT at the 2, Cisco at the 3 until a roster change. But I'm becoming more and more convinced even a roster change won't fix these substitutions and lineups.
 
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Not really. Jimmer and Garcia were the only guys with a positive +/- tonight and you could tell they played well. It's not the most important stat ever or a final deciding factor but it's valuable if you take it for what it is.

Although honestly, using your eyes is just as effective as a +/= stat.
 
Although honestly, using your eyes is just as effective as a +/= stat.

Well yeah, but you can't watch every single player of every single game of every single team. That's why you have systems and stuff that rate players. You wouldn't need rankings and ratings if you could just watch and keep track of everything every player did. You know what I mean?
 
Well yeah, but you can't watch every single player of every single game of every single team. That's why you have systems and stuff that rate players. You wouldn't need rankings and ratings if you could just watch and keep track of everything every player did. You know what I mean?

I kinda meant that if you watch the game, you can generally tell who played good or bad without having to consult a weird number.
 
I kinda meant that if you watch the game, you can generally tell who played good or bad without having to consult a weird number.

I know what you meant. That's why I said what I said. Like I said before, it has it's uses and it is not the most important indicator of how a game was played but it's somewhat accurate. It's mainly there to help show the effectiveness of guys you don't get to see play all the time.
 
That's why we either move Reke back to point, and immediately strengthen our backcourt defense, where Reke is actually good enough to cover some of MT's mistakes, or he plays more when Reke/Cuz aren't on the court, so he can freely jack up whatever he touches while being the entire focus of the offense.

Given IT is not only killing us defensively, against average starting pg's btw and not world beaters, and has increased tunnel vision while scoring less efficiently, I'd move Reke to point and run MT at the 2, Cisco at the 3 until a roster change. But I'm becoming more and more convinced even a roster change won't fix these substitutions and lineups.

IT is one of the better Kings defenders out there. I don't know what you're talking about. Josh Smith didn't torch IT all night long, that's for sure. Quit making IT a scapegoat for poor D. If Jason Thompson would play half the D at his position that IT plays at his this team would have much better D. And guess what? Jason Thompson is six feet eleven inches tall. And his defense sucks. So let's put a lot more 6'11" stiffs out there and see how great our defense is. It's amazing the unthinking knee jerk that is out there.
 
And if you had half the heart of Reuttiger's, you would have made All-American!

Seriously though, you can't go to a miniball lineup and expect to be able to close out on the boards. You can't continually give up a size advantage at each position (remember when size was an advantage?) and expect to box out. Sure, you can get some more steals and deflections with a smaller lineup, but often times the other player just laughs and launches over the defender. Much of this is Smart's own doing.

Focusing on IT's defense:
IT had the worst +/- (I know it's not a great stat, but a stat nonetheless) of anyone. (He's at +1.8 avg. over the last 5 games). When IT starts, the team gives up 10 more points per game. Aside from Dallas, all the games have been nail-biters. This has nothing to do with me liking or not liking the dude - I think he's a great person. I also think he needs to come off the bench and Smart needs to go back to the more traditional roles if he wants the defense to improve - as it was doing before the switch.
 
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