Grades v. Grizzlies 11/15

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The grades are skewed too high here -- not sure how to lower. This happens sometimes in freewheeling offensive games, even though objectively barely beating a bad opponent should not warrant marks like these. But the stats just look so pretty, you see? ;)

Garcia ( C+ ) -- with not only Salmons, but briefly, Ron, not ready to go to start this one, Cisco went from towel waving duty to starter, and even after Ron was patched up and returned, Cisco went on to his first significant minutes of the season. And did...ok. Not great, did not excel in any one area. But had a few moments, a made three, a block on defense, and some general activity. And while he made a few mistakes, they weren't really terrible ones that hurt us. So...welcome back to the rotation kid. Now let's see if you can hold it as Salmons gets healthy.
Thomas ( B- ) -- a solid game by Thomas that unfortunately petered off into irrelevancy down the stretch. For much of the game was on the glass and must have been happy to look around and see barely a single player who he had to look up to to have a conversation. Still didn't help him offensively where it was ugly aside from an assisted layup courtesy of Bibby. But he hustled around to pretty good effect on the glass, and also nabbed a couple of steals the same way. Unfortunately he was completely invisible in the final 15 minutes or so of the game when it looked like the Grizzlies were going to come steal this one from us, and I'm not sure I can recall either he or Reef stepping in once to stop dribble penetration the whole night.
Reef ( A ) -- wait wait -- I know this one since we were just talking about it the other day. First double double for Shareef since Dec '05. And maybe his most complete (although not necessarily best) game in literally years. Of course it helped that he looked like Shaq out there in a game between two teams that would be small in the NCAA, but he still put up a Sacto era high 13 rebs, and through three quarters was scoring if not at will, at least consistently Had a big first half against the Grizzlies undersized front line, with the only thing really slowing him down a B.S. call for his 3rd foul near the end of the half. Carried it over into the second half, when after a slow start he followed a little spurt from Kevin with one of his own to push us back to a little lead and set up the...well dogfight down the stretch is entirely too dramatic, but close enough. Good sign too that he was NOT ridiculously hot. This wasn't just a lucky streak thing. For the most part he wwas aggressive, and got his points this time from attacking, sometimes missing, sometimes being denied, but then coming back again and attacking some more. Did not do much in the late stages, and the interior defense was awful, but it was notable in this one that we felt like a different, and lesser, team this time out whenever Reef went to the bench for any stretch.
Martin ( A- ) -- was bombing away from the 3pt line along with Bobby in the early going, and maybe more significantly was also racking up assists as well. But Memphis started paying attention, and Kevin disappeared for a long stretch of the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Woke back up midway through the third though after shaking Mike Miller on the perimeter for a layup, and as it often does, that set Kevin off on a streak where he was dueling with Chucky Atkins of all people. Scored 7 pts in about a minute, and helped shake us out of the doldrums even while quieting back down himself. Finally reappeared again after a second silent stint when we drew up a three for him out of a timeout late int eh 4th, and added a half grade with a clutch three and FTs in the last two minutes. Kind of an on and off game, with spectacular bursts interspersed with long dry spells. In the end, 24 more on the board though.
Bibby ( A- ) -- big big night statistically left me in a bit of a quandry here. Was our leading scorer in the first half, opening up with a couple of threes and continuing to pepper in shots including a buzzer beating hoop at the end of the first half off of a Martin tip. Also had some nifty little old school floaters and flips down inside. However was also the primary victim in the third when Chucky Atkins (!) announced that it was Chucky's world, and we were all just living in it, sefishly gunning, but hitting everything he threw up and scoring 16 pts in less than 6 minutes to start the quarter. To his credit, as the quarter wore on Mike responded with his own hot shooting, and in the late third through early 4th he was in one of those can't miss zones, scoring from everywhere at will. Unfortunately he appearently continued to think he was int hat kind of zone as the game got tight down the stretch, and really threw up some bad shots down the stretch. Meanwhile Atkins went for 27 in a half -- that's Mr. Chucky Atkins to you -- and we damn enar lost a home game to the worst team recordwise in the NBA. So while it was hard to do so given a 30 and 10 night -- somrthing that probably less than 5% of NBA players EVER accomplish in their careers, the combination of the Atkins heroics and some real forces in the final two minutes here lowers this one a half grade from the otherwise obvious A.
Artest ( B ) -- meet our new 6th man! Missed the beginning of this one in alarming fashion -- suddenly coming down with back spasms And while you could not really tell after he was inserted late in the first quarter, there may have been a slight spark lacking this time out. Had a pretty good offensive mix of inside and outside but only sporadically exerted himself on that end of the floor. Finished with an unusually efficent 8-12, although a pair of missed FTs in the 4th could have hurt. And on the other end was unusually quiet. The game was just sloppy defensively for both sides, and at no point did anybody, Ron included, really step up and turn momentum ont hat end. Also lost several rebounds when he had them ripped right out of his hands. Efficient offensive effort, but one of those that displays the difference between just putting points on the board, no matter how efficiently, and an impact player, even if that guy only shoots 40% on a lot of nights. So solid effort, but not an impact game for a player of Ron's caliber.
Williamson ( C+ ) -- was active in a first half stint, if a bit sloppy, and with Salmons gone got himself basically a full bencher's minutes this time out. Was ready as always, scored well, but was almost too big in this silly smallballing game. Was outquicked, and had trouble on both the boards and defense.
Price ( C ) -- nothing awful, but we lost momentum with him in there at the point in the first half. Did score a hoop off a nice little curl. Got back inthe game at the end of the third, this time at OG I think, but again we got sloppy and stalled with him out there, and he was replaced fairly quickly by Martin.

Muss ( B ) -- So what do you get when you put two of the more inept offensive teams in the league together on one floor? A fast paced free flowing offensive shootout of course. Jeesh. Falls squarely into the "win is a win" category. Muss was faced with a potential challenge when before the game Ron suddenly hurt his back and it looked like we might have to go into this one without Ron, Brad, or Salmons. But he made it back out for the latter stages of the first, and was not obviously hobbled while playing heavy minutes. The game itself was, I dunno, kind of a scrimmage. Not much intensity, lots of pretty numbers, but unfortunately for both sides. It was good to see Cisco get another opportunity out there with Salmons oout and Ron ailing -- this might be his chance to reestablish himself in the rotation if Salmons misses a few more. Still be a problem with no real minutes at those positions and Salmons and he bringing similar things to the table, but you get the feeling getting Muss to trust him could be a big step. We started the game off well, but I'm not sure what Muss's halftime speech was, but it should be shelved. As should this particular brand of inattentive defense. Makes you wonder -- couldn't have just been not having the defensive captain entirely healthy could it? One would hope the falloff wouldn;t be this severe, especially not with him back on court. In any case the Grizz came into the game averaging 91ppg on 39% shooting, and scored 111 on 53% shooting tonight. Let's just chalk it up to a bad night, but tommorow should be an interesting test with us right back into the defensive fire against the master of run n gun himself. Mus earns soem extra credit here for a timeout play he drew up at about the 5 minute mark of the 4th, when remarkably we looked ot be in danger of losing this one. Drew up a three for Kevin, which he promptly drained to give us the lead.

Chucky Atkins ( F ) -- what the hell was that Chucky? I mean, WTF? Save it for the Lakers -- they traded you, not us.
 
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Pretty ugly game. Part injuries, part playing down to the Grizzlies level, part complacence, part inattentiveness = ugly.

Mike Bibby had a very impressive offensive effort and of course he deserves a ton of credit for playing injured, but watching him look for his shot with the hot hand reminded me so much of how the offense looked last year. When he dribbles down and shoots without passing the offense just totally stagnates, even if he's making his shots. An impressive game offensively (32 and 10 is awesome no matter how you slice it), and yet the offense looks so much better when he's shooting off of passes from other players. He also made Damon Stoudemire and Chucky Atkins look like Bob Cousy and Oscar Robertson, respectively. Really the best and worst of everything.

Shareef with a great game. Some people might put an asterisk next to it since the Grizzlies did not exactly play with a real frontline (Mike Miller at center?!?!), but it just goes to show that the guy still has game and when he's playing against power forwards he can be deadly.

This team missed John Salmons. The bench is ugly without him.

Corliss Williamson is a great feel-good story and he put some points in, but he is absolutely atrocious defensively and was killing us with bad rotations and being unable to guard anyone inside or get a rebound. Brad Miller needs to come back as soon as possible if only so the Kings will have a backup center.

If I had to give a grade I'd give an A+ to Fratello for taking out Atkins when he was tearing Bibby up.

And of course, Kevin Martin. Wow.
 
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I don't care what his stats look like, Corliss is playing his way back to being between Taylor and Douby.

I still see the redundancy of Garcia and Salmons.
 
I don't care what his stats look like, Corliss is playing his way back to being between Taylor and Douby.

I still see the redundancy of Garcia and Salmons.

Although with Salmons hurt if Garcia isn't there. Who comes off the bench at the 2-3. How redundant can that possibly be to you. Its a 4 man rotation at the 2-3. Alot of NBA fans call it depth yet you chose to call it redundant.
 
I don't care what his stats look like, Corliss is playing his way back to being between Taylor and Douby.

I still see the redundancy of Garcia and Salmons.

Corliss wasn't well matched at all tonight as the Grizz went to mini-hobbit ball. I'm still glad we have him and I'm glad to see him getting some minutes.
 
Hey VF, any thoughts on what the Kings may do with Williamson when Miller comes back? Will he still get minutes? I think he deserves it. Thanks to Adelman for keeping him fresh for this season. :mad:

(yes, that last sentence had a hint of sarcasm in it.)
 
Although with Salmons hurt if Garcia isn't there. Who comes off the bench at the 2-3. How redundant can that possibly be to you. Its a 4 man rotation at the 2-3. Alot of NBA fans call it depth yet you chose to call it redundant.
Okay...having two fairly adequate swingmen behind two of your key players is nice, but not needed. If the world comes to an end, what does it matter who is playing backup small forward? Get past the injury thing...
 
Okay...having two fairly adequate swingmen behind two of your key players is nice, but not needed. If the world comes to an end, what does it matter who is playing backup small forward? Get past the injury thing...

LOL ok so what would you rather have. I mean we have the roster spots. Look at it this way. Tonight in fact if Garcia was gone and we only had Salmons and he is hurt and Artest back doesn't loosen up. Who do you suggest we have playing the 3.
 
Well, to be fair, Corliss had ONE good game.

He's not looking bad out there, but he's not really igniting it either.
I'm sorry but he looked bad tonight. I saw some people talking about Shareef being a black hole; Corliss was a astronomical anomaly tonight.
 
I still see the redundancy of Garcia and Salmons.

There is some, but remember, when Salmons was covering PG at Philly, he got double-digit assists in some games, and with a very nice assist-TO ratio. I really can't imagine Garcia doing that any time in the immediate future.
 
LOL ok so what would you rather have. I mean we have the roster spots. Look at it this way. Tonight in fact if Garcia was gone and we only had Salmons and he is hurt and Artest back doesn't loosen up. Who do you suggest we have playing the 3.

Well, I'd rather have a servicable backup point guard. Or maybe a 7 footer who could eat up some minutes. Or a better looking popcorn vendor. You can't just look at things in the 'what if so and so, and so and so gets hurt, and so and so gets hurt, and so and so gets hurt and...' The fact is there are four or five players made for two positions and that is too many.
 
There is some, but remember, when Salmons was covering PG at Philly, he got double-digit assists in some games, and with a very nice assist-TO ratio. I really can't imagine Garcia doing that any time in the immediate future.
I thought Garcia looked good; in team games individual stats are nice but don't tell the whole story. Garcia and Salmons have the same game, are similar body types and produce similar results. Or, in other words, are redundant.
 
OK, I know that our defense was not very good tonight. But to be completly honest, it felt good to win one with offense again. I think our defense will be back tomorrow. It was nice to know we can still get it done on the offensive end.
 
Well, I'd rather have a servicable backup point guard. Or maybe a 7 footer who could eat up some minutes. Or a better looking popcorn vendor. You can't just look at things in the 'what if so and so, and so and so gets hurt, and so and so gets hurt, and so and so gets hurt and...' The fact is there are four or five players made for two positions and that is too many.

We have 3 backup point guards, so that is 4 deep at the pg spot thats 1 position, We have 6 PF/C players for 2 positions. But having 4 for 2 positions is to much??? I wish the kings could play your team every game.
 
As far as injury's its not a hypothetical it ****ing happened tonight. Salmons IS injured. If GP saw how "redundant" it was to have Garcia. tell me who back up the 2/3 tonight. Yes tonights game. Price, Hart, Douby or that other pg you want or the other 7 footer you want????
 
As far as injury's its not a hypothetical it ****ing happened tonight. Salmons IS injured. If GP saw how "redundant" it was to have Garcia. tell me who back up the 2/3 tonight. Yes tonights game. Price, Hart, Douby or that other pg you want or the other 7 footer you want????
Dude, Salmons has a bruise. And Artest had a stiff back. There isn't rampant microfracture surgery going on.
 
Dude, Salmons has a bruise. And Artest had a stiff back. There isn't rampant microfracture surgery going on.

so here is your lineup

Bibby,Price,Hart,Douby/ some other guy
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Salmons
KT/Sar/Corlis/Taylor
Miller/Sar/Pot/Taylor/ some other guy
 
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After going to the game tonight (oh yeah, sitting three rows back was awesome) I'll add the following thoughts:

- Team seemed a bit bored with the game, it almost reminded you of back 4-5 years ago when the team would go through the motions against lesser teams and make just enough plays to win.
- Defensive was over-aggressive in the first half, we got beat repeatedly due to going for steals, second half we just got lazy and didn't get back quickly enough in a lot of circumstances
- It seemed like the Grizz just made a lot of shots whether open or not, it was just one of those NBA nights where a team makes a lot of baskets for whatever reason.

All in all, I'd give the team a B-, we won which is the most important, but just lacked the energy we've seen so far this year. That being said, hopefully they'll come out with the energy tomorrow night against the Warriors because if they don't, they're going to get beat pretty good.
 
While Cisco and Salmons have somewhat similar games and can cover 1-3 positions. Cisco is a great shoot blocker and is more athletic than Salmons. He also has a better range and can hit the 3 ball with some regularity. Salmons does the stuff that might not make the stats and he does it being totally cool about it knowing his role. I like him and wonder how he does it without being more athletic, but he does the job just not flashy. His big contract is flashy though I must say. :p

I'm all for starting SAR the rest of the season and having SAR back up K9 and give Brad big minutes too, sort of a different way of looking at it. I would not break up this streak we have going, even though it sucks to lose your starting job when you are hurt, SAR lost his to K9 and Brad should lose his to SAR if SAR and K9 continue to play so good together. We are missing Brad though, we are missing a backup 4 & 5 for sure. While Williamson is doing better, we still need a backup 4 and definately a 5. If SAR continues to start then Brad can back him up, while SAR has the utility of subbing in for K9 at the 4 and Brad at the 5, I don't think it's fair to have him be forced back into this role, Brad needs to prove he deserves to start again. Which I think he will do after a little while, at any rate we are 1-2 7 footers away from what we need. I envy the teams like Dallas that have the trio of 7 footers they keep bringing in off the bench. Diop, Dampier, and DJ is a great rotation. I really wish we could have Dampier, him and Muss have a good past.
 
After going to the game tonight (oh yeah, sitting three rows back was awesome) I'll add the following thoughts:

- Team seemed a bit bored with the game, it almost reminded you of back 4-5 years ago when the team would go through the motions against lesser teams and make just enough plays to win.
- Defensive was over-aggressive in the first half, we got beat repeatedly due to going for steals, second half we just got lazy and didn't get back quickly enough in a lot of circumstances
- It seemed like the Grizz just made a lot of shots whether open or not, it was just one of those NBA nights where a team makes a lot of baskets for whatever reason.

All in all, I'd give the team a B-, we won which is the most important, but just lacked the energy we've seen so far this year. That being said, hopefully they'll come out with the energy tomorrow night against the Warriors because if they don't, they're going to get beat pretty good.
Yeah, even on TV, the team just seemed to lack the intensity they've had. Of course, over 82 games, it isn't going to be easy to maintain heavy intensity. Especially when your bench gets shortened. Intense defense takes some depth to keep players fresh enough.
 
Anyway I loved the way Artest is letting offense come to him instead of forcing his. His % has went up and he is still getting close to 20. His back hindered his defense tonight i believe. I am a firm believer that the defense is the first thing to go when you are hurting somewhere. Tommorows game scrares me with the back to back, the injurys, the pace and a posting point guard.
 
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