[Grades] Grades v. Bulls 12/29/11

[cuad]

Wait for the second highlight to begin (0:07). And you can hear the Bulls yelling "ice"

The first three highlights are all iced sideline pick and rolls, and the Kings really don't have anything on those plays. On the fourth highlight, the Bulls don't ice, Jimmer goes right down the lane, has a rolling Thompson to his right and a wide open Salmons to his left. The Bulls ice on the 5th highlight, and the Kings offense breaks down again.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I'm not totally against turning Thornton into that sixth man type guy somewhere down the line if it becomes more obvious that that is the right move .. just not yet. Maybe Its wrong of me, but I believe in giving someone something when they deserve it. I think Thornton truly deserves to start right now based on what he did last season. Jimmer hasn't done enough to take that from him yet.

Not starting isn't always a matter of personal demotion. Sometimes it's just about what's best for the team. Players like Bobby Jackson, Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, and i think Marcus Thornton as well can be just as helpful as "instant offense" off the bench when you need it as they can as starters. Especially with a player like Thornton who has the clutch gene. Why not limit his minutes in the first half so that he can be as fresh as possible to close games for you?

 

[AL/kfan]

When you put it down on paper we have a lot of talent but that seems to disappear not day by day but minute by minute. There were times tonight that I saw what looked like real drawn up plays but for some reason we stop those efforts and revert back to one on one. The other thing that gets me are the blown defensive assignments. Like no one covering Hamilton after a jump ball leaving him free to catch a long pass for an easy to. And, leaving Korver and Brewer all alone on the sides. Yes search other issues like free throws, our bigs failing to convert 2 feet from the rim, being late being late to try to get open when DeMarcus has the ball and missing out on way too many defensive board rebounds. And no way should Noah be allowed to go coast to coast straight for the rim with three King defenders in front of him. At the very least he should have been forced to go either left or right. Is it reasonable to expect that we will see a marked improvement with a one-day practice before we face New York?

 

[est.1999]

thornton and Evans together is like having a smaller kevin martin along side evans, we all know how that went it was frustrating to see them both stall the ball.

You're insane. Thornton and Martin couldn't be more different.

 

[BMiller52]

Salmons took 14 shots against the Lakers, 3 against the Blazers, and 10 tonight against the Bulls. I cannot say this enough times .. forget the reputation for a minute. He hasn't been that guy yet.

Right now he is more or less doing what I want him to do. Play solid defense, shoot the 3 at a decent clip, and attack the basket without forcing it. There have been 1-2 forces per game, but overall guys .. he is giving us what we want right now. At least that's how I feel.

agree. I feel like Tyreke is the main culprit. He has regressed big time.

 

[jcwkings]

When you put it down on paper we have a lot of talent but that seems to disappear not day by day but minute by minute. There were times tonight that I saw what looked like real drawn up plays but for some reason we stop those efforts and revert back to one on one. The other thing that gets me are the blown defensive assignments. Like no one covering Hamilton after a jump ball leaving him free to catch a long pass for an easy to. And, leaving Korver and Brewer all alone on the sides. Yes search other issues like free throws, our bigs failing to convert 2 feet from the rim, being late being late to try to get open when DeMarcus has the ball and missing out on way too many defensive board rebounds. And no way should Noah be allowed to go coast to coast straight for the rim with three King defenders in front of him. At the very least he should have been forced to go either left or right. Is it reasonable to expect that we will see a marked improvement with a one-day practice before we face New York?

The only improvement you will see is the fact that New York doesn't defend as well as the Bulls and Blazers.

 

[Aenadin]

You're insane. Thornton and Martin couldn't be more different.

both scorers
both can light up the 3 pt line
both play SG - we all want him to play a lil pg but he's not capable
both quick (standard)
volume shooters? - have to see a larger sample size than a few games,

Defense - Thornton is a better than kev. definitely
movement with out the ball - kev was better imo.

like i said I havent seen much of marcus thornton in a kings uni - tis a small sample size so forgive me if I compared him to Martin

Boy when the kings Were saying Bring Back the Black I thought they were refering to the black jerseys..... they were refering to Salmons aka Blackhole )

 

[Glenn]

Jimmer needs more help out there. When he's the PG, he's trying to set players up, but rarely does anybody make any moves. They stand around and wait for the ball, while Jimmer gets doubled or tripled teamed.

Jimmer hit Tyreke on two well executed plays. It's a nice use of Tyreke. Don't know if anyone noticed. Jimmer will learn. The trees are tall and he has been trapped a few times.

 

[Quix]

not too upset this early in the season. still see a lot of promise, but there are definitely some reoccurring issues...

I'd prefer guys stop trying to draw the foul...and that's without considering the fact that we'd have a better chance making half-court shots than our free-throws anyway. I'd like the players to at least consider passing the ball outside when they're quadruple-teamed under the basket. I'd like the team to realize that the opponent is running down the court after we make a basket and not patiently standing around in admiration of our success. I'd like to feel like there is a team-oriented offensive game plan on at least half of our possessions. I'd like more moving around in general.

not really ready to start demanding changes in the starting lineup, or alter anyone's roles. but i would be curious to see donte and garcia get some burn.

i've been enjoying jimmer, but feel like we've been getting bizarro jimmer. all i can think of when he get's the ball is "shoot! shoot!" but he seems pretty adamant on trying to set other people up. which would be a good thing, but no one seems to move or care. he gets doubled teamed and trapped a lot, and then the team just watches. should others be trying to help in that situation? maybe i'm not basketball savvy enough. I'm beginning to suspect everyone is just waiting for their turn on offense.

also, for the poll, I'd like the option of 'hanging suicidal midget'

 

[cuad]

Wait, so the story about the hanged guy on the Oz set is true?

 

[Prince_XY]

This team is very selfish, we will get nowhere until these guys forget about their individual stats and play simple basketball, our core guys each think they can make the key shot and be heroes. off the top of my head the worst plays of the day was when we were down 2 in the 3rd and Thornton gets the ball, dribbles for 10 seconds and shoots a tough shot. The other one was when Tyreke got a steal in the fourth and had Jimmer open for an easy layup, instead he tries a 360 layup and travel in the proccess, luckily it wasn't called, and he still missed the 2 freethrows. Tyrekes thinking " I have Jimmer open for an easy layup, eff it 360 layup on my own"

What do you expect? They have Salmons as the veteran to teach them. During the first game against the Lakers...Salmons went dribble, dribble, and shoot! Now Tyreke and Thornton wants to do the same thing.

 

[IfAt1st]

If Evans hits 5 more FT's I'd consider this one of his better games.

I saw the game in person, then watched it at home and took pretty close notes until 3:00 left in the 3rd when it was game over :

This is a startlingly incorrect statement.

My notes on Tyreke point to him being the main culprit in the defensive problems with the Kings.
He personally cost the Kings the most points of anyone on the roster, with Marcus Thornton a close 2nd *footnotes available on request*

There's something seriously wrong with Tyreke, folks.
He claimed on TV just before the game that he was "100% healthy" - which means this guy, in his 3rd year with plenty of opportunities to learn, is simply not getting better.

He can not get past set defenses.
He had the ball plenty of times in the halfcourt, and meekly passed the ball most of the time, and barely got by his man few of the times but missing every single drive (except one drive-and-kick assist to MT for the 3) up through 3:00 left in the 3rd qtr.
All of his layups were on breakaways and broken plays, or set plays where someone else facillitates the play and passes to him when he cuts.
Tyreke did not score one basket outside of the paint, and airballed at least 2 jumpshots.

Here's my notes just from the 2nd qtr:
* @10:45 the whole Kings team went after the bouncing rebound that Jimmer was closest to, leaving 3 Bulls players under the basket unguarded. They got the RBD, easy layup. Why did the Kings all break to go on offense during an unclaimed RBD, when the Bulls stayed in their right spots and got the basket because of it?
* Jimmer drawing fouls left and right
* Jimmer caught Tyreke slashing to the basket for the nice shoulda-been assist, but Reke inexplicably wrapped underneath the ground-bound Asik and had no chance to score, settling for FT's.
* Tyreke stymied by pressure D, was bailed out with FT's.
* Jimmer for 3
* Tyreke, on break, didn't notice the streaking Outlaw, ran into defense and lost the ball, bounced back to him, he hands it to Jimmer who misses the 3. Outlaw didn't get back on D, fastbreak basket Bulls.
* Outlaw missed the 3 (fell down) Tyreke didn't get back on D, fastbreak basket Bulls @ 8:45
* Jimmer TO, but every King is standing still on the court!
* Tyreke looking lost on transition defense.
* DMC screwed by call - did NOT hook Noah with his arm on the beautiful spin move.
* Tyreke got penetration vs unset defense - airballed jumper.
* Tyreke got easy layup around Korver on break.
* Rose drives, Tyreke completely left Rip at 3pt line so he could stand in front of Hayes while Rose passed to Rip for the 3.
* Hayes nice move! (missed shot)
* Tyreke is standing still in the key while Jimmer is always moving, guarding Rose and later Korver OK
* JT almost gets the steal
* @ 4:00 There's something wrong with Tyreke. He just did matador defense on Rose. HE LOOKS SCARED.
* Salmons penetrates, open FT jumper good.
* Hayes and DMC down low can kill teams with their good hands.
* Tyreke being destroyed by Rose - Reke is still standing still/walking whenever the ball isn't nearby him.
* Reke got the bouncing ball for layup on broken play, then promptly gambled in the backcourt, leaving Rose free to carve up the Kings D and get the assist.
* Tyreke is gassed - he's standing still on offense, too, now. Timeout @ 2:02
* After Timeout, Tyreke stayed in front of Rose and stopped the penetration!
* Tyreke got assist to MT's 3 which shouldn't have been counted
* Hayes GREAT back-door pass to cutting Reke for layup.
* Tyreke nice drive-and-kick to MT for the 3.
* Tyreke swiping/gambling, let Rose by for 2 FT's when DMC tried to get 2nd consecutive charge call.
* Tyreke out of position to receive RBD on 2nd Rose FT, got the ball with 12 seconds left and took 7 seconds to get to the other 3 pt line and start his drive. He was shut out, and barely flipped a pass (?) which DMC caught with great hands and got FT's.
End 2nd qtr

This was just the 2nd qtr, mostly-Tyreke-specific notes.

Questions:
Why does KF's think Tyreke is such a great defender?
Why does KF's think Tyreke is such a good penetrator, who can create his own shot?

P.S. Salmons was not a problem in this game.

 

[KingsCitizen]

The reason we lost this game is that we're playing the freakin Chicago Bulls which had the most win last season and only lost Bogans in the offseason. Compared to the Kings which is the youngest team in the NBA and has lot of new players. And which is has been a non-playoff team since Chris Webber retired. Patience people.

BTT, I hope this successive benching of Cisco is for a trade. Otherwise, Westphal is an idiot wasting a 5M$ talent on the bench.

 

[SacTownKid]

I saw the game in person, then watched it at home and took pretty close notes until 3:00 left in the 3rd when it was game over :

This is a startlingly incorrect statement.

My notes on Tyreke point to him being the main culprit in the defensive problems with the Kings.
He personally cost the Kings the most points of anyone on the roster, with Marcus Thornton a close 2nd *footnotes available on request*

There's something seriously wrong with Tyreke, folks.
He claimed on TV just before the game that he was "100% healthy" - which means this guy, in his 3rd year with plenty of opportunities to learn, is simply not getting better.

He can not get past set defenses.
He had the ball plenty of times in the halfcourt, and meekly passed the ball most of the time, and barely got by his man few of the times but missing every single drive (except one drive-and-kick assist to MT for the 3) up through 3:00 left in the 3rd qtr.
All of his layups were on breakaways and broken plays, or set plays where someone else facillitates the play and passes to him when he cuts.
Tyreke did not score one basket outside of the paint, and airballed at least 2 jumpshots.

Here's my notes just from the 2nd qtr:
* @10:45 the whole Kings team went after the bouncing rebound that Jimmer was closest to, leaving 3 Bulls players under the basket unguarded. They got the RBD, easy layup. Why did the Kings all break to go on offense during an unclaimed RBD, when the Bulls stayed in their right spots and got the basket because of it?
* Jimmer drawing fouls left and right
* Jimmer caught Tyreke slashing to the basket for the nice shoulda-been assist, but Reke inexplicably wrapped underneath the ground-bound Asik and had no chance to score, settling for FT's.
* Tyreke stymied by pressure D, was bailed out with FT's.
* Jimmer for 3
* Tyreke, on break, didn't notice the streaking Outlaw, ran into defense and lost the ball, bounced back to him, he hands it to Jimmer who misses the 3. Outlaw didn't get back on D, fastbreak basket Bulls.
* Outlaw missed the 3 (fell down) Tyreke didn't get back on D, fastbreak basket Bulls @ 8:45
* Jimmer TO, but every King is standing still on the court!
* Tyreke looking lost on transition defense.
* DMC screwed by call - did NOT hook Noah with his arm on the beautiful spin move.
* Tyreke got penetration vs unset defense - airballed jumper.
* Tyreke got easy layup around Korver on break.
* Rose drives, Tyreke completely left Rip at 3pt line so he could stand in front of Hayes while Rose passed to Rip for the 3.
* Hayes nice move! (missed shot)
* Tyreke is standing still in the key while Jimmer is always moving, guarding Rose and later Korver OK
* JT almost gets the steal
* @ 4:00 There's something wrong with Tyreke. He just did matador defense on Rose. HE LOOKS SCARED.
* Salmons penetrates, open FT jumper good.
* Hayes and DMC down low can kill teams with their good hands.
* Tyreke being destroyed by Rose - Reke is still standing still/walking whenever the ball isn't nearby him.
* Reke got the bouncing ball for layup on broken play, then promptly gambled in the backcourt, leaving Rose free to carve up the Kings D and get the assist.
* Tyreke is gassed - he's standing still on offense, too, now. Timeout @ 2:02
* After Timeout, Tyreke stayed in front of Rose and stopped the penetration!
* Tyreke got assist to MT's 3 which shouldn't have been counted
* Hayes GREAT back-door pass to cutting Reke for layup.
* Tyreke nice drive-and-kick to MT for the 3.
* Tyreke swiping/gambling, let Rose by for 2 FT's when DMC tried to get 2nd consecutive charge call.
* Tyreke out of position to receive RBD on 2nd Rose FT, got the ball with 12 seconds left and took 7 seconds to get to the other 3 pt line and start his drive. He was shut out, and barely flipped a pass (?) which DMC caught with great hands and got FT's.
End 2nd qtr

This was just the 2nd qtr, mostly-Tyreke-specific notes.

Questions:
Why does KF's think Tyreke is such a great defender?
Why does KF's think Tyreke is such a good penetrator, who can create his own shot?

P.S. Salmons was not a problem in this game.

The only times Tyreke got "destroyed" by Rose was via the screen. They started playing the pick and roll defensively much better after the half and Rose was largely ineffective for the most part after that. If he wasn't getting that clear lane to the hoop off of that pick he wasn't doing much else. One on one Evans pretty much matched Rose and in a straight one on one sense it looked like Evans had a serious advantage with his strength and size.

Now, there is no question that Tyreke funked the offense up more than a few times, but he did finally make a nice cut to the hoop that Hayes found him on. He's learning.

 

[Prince_XY]

BTT, I hope this successive benching of Cisco is for a trade. Otherwise, Westphal is an idiot wasting a 5M$ talent on the bench.

I would rather let that $5M mediocre talent be wasted on the bench. Let's face it, he is another over-rated veteran who won't be a a significant contributor on the floor. I don't know what the love is all about for these kind of veteran talents in our team ( Cisco and Salmons ). They have been here eversince and they havent made this team a winning team. And maybe they are part of the reason why this team perpetually sucks. IMO, we should avoid taking players like them.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I saw the game in person, then watched it at home and took pretty close notes until 3:00 left in the 3rd when it was game over :

This is a startlingly incorrect statement.

My notes on Tyreke point to him being the main culprit in the defensive problems with the Kings.
He personally cost the Kings the most points of anyone on the roster, with Marcus Thornton a close 2nd *footnotes available on request*

There's something seriously wrong with Tyreke, folks.
He claimed on TV just before the game that he was "100% healthy" - which means this guy, in his 3rd year with plenty of opportunities to learn, is simply not getting better.

I think you are overstating Reke's hand in this loss by a large margin.

He defended Rose most of the game, who had 19 points on 7-14 shooting (same shooting number as Reke) but he actually made his FT's. He also had 6 turnovers and 5 Fouls... some of which came from guarding Reke on the other end.

Evans D can be hit or miss. He isn't very good at chasing his man around the court off the ball ... he gets lost on picks quite a bit, but his man D against a ball handler is pretty good for a guy his age.

And you listed Evans points in the paint as a negative? thats where I want ALL of his shots coming from unless he is wide open... that is how he played in his rookie year.

Our biggest defensive problem was HANDS DOWN our transition defense. Some of that is on Reke. A lot of it is on Marcus .. its on everyone. Our set defense wasn't terrible. Chicago just had numbers on us everytime down the court. Demarcus is particularly bad at getting back on defense ... especially when he is complaining to the Refs after he misses an easy look inside.

 

[Tyndel]

All our SF are a little different. Salmons can't guard the big 3s and outlaw while bigger hasn't wowed me but I don't know his game enough yet and I dislike him at the 4. Greene is long and fast enough to guard 2,3 and 4 but I like him at 3 if the coach can convince him to put out all out there for defense every minute he plays. Cisco is a pretty good outside shooter he already has some chemistry with most of the guys when he is open and set he hits a good percentage. he is also the best blocker we have on the team per 38 and while a bit slow and small doesn't disrupt the offense knows where to be for kickouts and can defend most 3s.

At this point there isn't any reason not to have given them a few minutes to show if they can make a difference. Salmons and Outlaw aren't so much better as to automatically bench Cisco and Greene specially when out offense looks so bad.

There is still no reason to play outlaw at the 4 there isn't any reason to run JJ and JT at the same time and there isn't any reason to play both Jimmer and IT at the same time.

 

[MizzouKing]

Do you remember how terrible we were without Thorton? Guys like him do not grow on trees. He single handedly turned us into a .500 team at the end of last season. Being "selfish" is not always a trait that defines someone as a bad player or even part of a bad team. Part of being a great player is having enough confidence in yourself that you think you are the best guy on the court, better than your teammates. For young guys, it can be hard to develop the trust in your teammates required to play truly unselfish basketball. This is a league where Allen Iverson selfishly carried his team to the ECF. Lebron did the same thing in Cleveland for 4 years.

While it's true that a team can achieve a level of success with a player (or three) who is both selfish and extremely talented, there is a ceiling on that type of success. Great basketball is about the team...among other things, it's about a talented player having that supreme confidence and still passing up a good shot because there's a teammate who has a great shot.

It sounds like we saw glimpses of that with the Lakers game. I'm glad to see Paul Westphal starting to demand that, taking the tack that we're past the point of being excused for being young, and getting buy-in (at least verbally) from the team's stars about unselfish play. I think we're heading in the right direction, if they can translate vision to action.

Mizzou King

 

[mac]

I just want to know what the change is over the offseason that has resulted in us giving up so many easy fast break points to the other team. It's seriously ridiculous that the opponent can just run down the court and receive baseball passes for easy lay ups time and time again.

Tyreke is a pretty good on the ball defender. He's quite bad off the ball and gambles way too much for steals. I think this is one area that the coaching staff NEEDS to address: gambling for steals. Our bigs (from my memory Cousins and Hickson especially) repeatedly try to get a steal after the opponent gets a defensive board. Seriously? Do you ever see Tim Duncan standing there trying to swipe the ball away? Shaq? Tyreke kept trying to go for steals in transition resulting in numerous 3 or 4 on 2s on the other end.

John Salmons hasn't changed a bit.

Also, the guys need to trust the system (whatever system there's supposed to be although it's not quite evident to us fans yet) and learn to be patient. It's better to run your sets properly and get back and defend than to chuck desperate hero-wannabe shots and then play for steals. Sure if the basket goes the crowd goes wild, or if you get the steal then you may have an easy basket. But the odds are not in your favour, and the result for us has been momentum-killing wild shots on one end, and giving up easy transition baskets on the other (yes I'm talking about you Marcus and Tyreke).

I've been pleased with is that in 2 out of our first 3 games most of the guys at least look like they're trying to share the ball at most times. I'm also pleased with the hustle, although sometimes we just go after offensive boards too hard instead of getting back on D. I'm not pleased with Salmons and Travis Outlaw, who are supposed to be more savvy than our young guys. I'm pleased that Jimmer is showing that he belongs and isn't just a chucker. I'm not pleased with our transition D, which doesn't exist. I wouldn't even call it transition D because we're not even in a position to possibly defend when the opponent gets the ball racing down court of our misses. It's more just running back than transition D involving things like picking up the ball handler/ rotating etc. Nobody is getting back. I'm pleased that Westphal didn't have a Isaiah Jimmer lineup against the Bulls. I'm not pleased that at this point our offense seemed to be a lot smoother last season that it does this season.

Let's continue to show our team all the support we can. Things will get better, maybe not to our expectations but they will get better. Let us also continue to pray each day that Westphal somehow starts coaching.

 

[Padrino]

as much as i hate to say it, i agree with what jerry reynolds said at the end of last night's game. this team doesn't need anyone to make excuses for them. they're young, the youngest team in the league, in fact, and they need to make their mistakes in order to learn how to fight through them. however, like jerry, i agree that a lack of an offseason hurt this team tremendously. they have up to five new rotation players, in addition to the expectation of a full season with marcus thornton, and a two-week training camp--with no summer league to speak of--and all of two preseason games against the same weak golden state warriors squad was just not enough for an incredibly young team to learn a new offense. and it doesn't help that two of their first three games were against top-flight defensive teams. i do not know where exactly the trailblazers ranked last season, defensively, but against the kings, they played some of the stingiest, handsiest, most shutdown defense i've seen yet this season across the nba, having watched many of the early games. the kings were on the road against a playoff-caliber western conference team, and on the second night of a back-to-back, and they got their asses handed to them. not too much of a surprise, really. as for chicago, they had the best defense in the league last season, and it led them to 62 wins. that defense was absent in their first two games. you had to expect they'd bring it against sacramento...

again, i don't want to make too many excuses for this team, but they need more court time together before things gel, and they did consistently fight their way back into a game they could have easily let go of against the bulls. in spite of their IMMENSE offensive struggles, they fought, on both sides of the court. when a young team can't get it going, offensively, they can still hustle. in the second half, the kings did their best to slow a bulls offense that rarely relented. and on offense, they took it to both derrick rose and joakim noah, both who were in foul trouble. it was smart. its just a shame that they could not capitalize on the absence of those two players through stretches of the fourth quarter. there are obvious, glaring issues that need work, but the good thing is that they're obvious. the free throw shooting needs work. the transition defense needs work. the half-court offense very obviously needs work. but the pieces are there. this season is going to be a struggle. with only 66 games, all of them played in rapid fire succession, things will be ugly from time to time. and the one firebrand-type comment i'll throw into the pot at this point is that paul westphal is absolutely going to have to get the most from his players in a very short season. he's in his contract year, and the maloofs have itchy trigger fingers...

the maloofs see the potential of a new sacramento arena on the horizon, they see upcoming contract negotiations with tyreke evans and demarcus cousins in the next couple of seasons, they see 17,317 at arco through the first two home games, but they also have to wonder how long that number will hold. this young team's mistakes are often player-related, and very obviously so. however, others are very obvious coaching errors, and you don't fire talented young players. you fire head coaches. or, in the case of rick adelman, you elect not to re-sign, which is still a firing-by-circumstance. the same will happen to westphal if he can't get this team closer to .500 this season. and i'm not sure that it would be a bad thing. there are times where i see westphal getting through to young players who need help. but more often than not, i see a stubborn man who benches young guys for the wrong reasons, shuffles lineups with little or no logical explanation, and appears unable to maximize the natural gifts of his most talented players. this is not a recipe for success. i will give him slack for 20 games or so. its gonna be a tough climb. but i, like the maloofs (and again, i find myself [theoretically] agreeing with an entity i'm not often wont to agree with), will get impatient past a certain point...

a core of tyreke evans, demarcus cousins, and marcus thornton, with quality additions like jimmer fredette and chuck hayes, should be able to push close to .500 this season on talent alone. .400-.450 seems more realistic given the bevy of young mistakes we'll see out on the court some nights. i won't join in the "fire westphal" chants just yet. but i expect i will by summertime if i do not see significant improvement on that .293 win percentage from last season...

 

[Glenn]

Padrino, I wish you would post more often. The overwhelming negativity wears on my nerves and really doesn't tell the whole story. I think that was a well balanced note.

As to the game, at the beginning the Bulls couldn't miss and the Kings couldn't hit a shot. I don't think that had much if anything to do with anything other than "that's the way it goes sometimes." At one point the Bulls had a shooting percentage of 69% ad the Kings 25%. Sometimes **** happens. When the Bulls cooled off and the Kings began hitting a reasonable percentage, the game was essentially over. Not saying we could have won anyway but we hit the court against a team that was hot.

I was not discouraged by last night's game and in fact saw some things that showed that one day of practice had added quite a bit to the Kings. There is hope.

 

[IfAt1st]

The only times Tyreke got "destroyed" by Rose was via the screen. They started playing the pick and roll defensively much better after the half and Rose was largely ineffective for the most part after that.

You want to read my 3rd quarter notes?

Tyreke quite clearly was even MORE afraid of being exposed on the screens, and played them so badly they led to easy baskets by the Bulls. He literally HID behind Omer Asik's screen, leaning AWAY from rose to let him go by. I rewound it 5 times - he clearly wanted no part of Rose and used the screens as an excuse to let him go by.

Anyone notice against CJ Watson, when Tyreke went under Asik's screen at the 3 pt line, then needlessly jumped high in the air, allowing CJ to simply turn back the other way and blow past Reke for the floater? It was truly a cringeworthy play.

How about when it was a 1 pt game, and Tyreke needlessly switched to pick up Rip who was standing in the corner, letting CJ waltz up and can the uncontested 3 ptr? Don't tell me Marcus should have switched, since we all know Tyreke doesn't talk on the floor and CJ was Tyreke's man.

Then Tyreke actually got by CJ, only to jump too early and let the outstretched Boozer block his shot. If Reke was all that, there's no way in hell he would have let that happen on that possession. Reke was barely off the ground on that drive - he jumped too early, and not high enough. The Kings HAD to have that basket. Then, on the ensuing jump ball, Tyreke let Boozer beat him to the jump (this just after Grant pointed out that Boozer is not a quick jumper). Tyreke simply wasn't ready or willing to jump for it.

He acted scared, all the way down the line, and it showed in his choices, and the team paid for it.

 

[Bricklayer]

You want to read my 3rd quarter notes?

Tyreke quite clearly was even MORE afraid of being exposed on the screens, and played them so badly they led to easy baskets by the Bulls. He literally HID behind Omer Asik's screen, leaning AWAY from rose to let him go by. I rewound it 5 times - he clearly wanted no part of Rose and used the screens as an excuse to let him go by.

Anyone notice against CJ Watson, when Tyreke went under Asik's screen at the 3 pt line, then needlessly jumped high in the air, allowing CJ to simply turn back the other way and blow past Reke for the floater? It was truly a cringeworthy play.

How about when it was a 1 pt game, and Tyreke needlessly switched to pick up Rip who was standing in the corner, letting CJ waltz up and can the uncontested 3 ptr? Don't tell me Marcus should have switched, since we all know Tyreke doesn't talk on the floor and CJ was Tyreke's man.

Then Tyreke actually got by CJ, only to jump too early and let the outstretched Boozer block his shot. If Reke was all that, there's no way in hell he would have let that happen on that possession. Reke was barely off the ground on that drive - he jumped too early, and not high enough. The Kings HAD to have that basket. Then, on the ensuing jump ball, Tyreke let Boozer beat him to the jump (this just after Grant pointed out that Boozer is not a quick jumper). Tyreke simply wasn't ready or willing to jump for it.

He acted scared, all the way down the line, and it showed in his choices, and the team paid for it.

You are becoming a self-parody.

 

[IfAt1st]

You are becoming a self-parody.

Hey, if you say so, than it must be, right, Brick?

You know - my posts are easy to reply to - just bring up a recording of the game, and critique my observations of each play.
Until you (or others) do that, it's your replies that are the parody.

(And BTW - I'd appreciate it if you laid off the personal attacks, and just responded to the bball points people make, and refute them based on what you see on the court, 'kay?
Don't look at stat lines to tell us the story, and restrain from the ad hominem. Thanks in advance.)

 

[LPKingsFan]

Padrino, I wish you would post more often. The overwhelming negativity wears on my nerves and really doesn't tell the whole story. I think that was a well balanced note.

As to the game, at the beginning the Bulls couldn't miss and the Kings couldn't hit a shot. I don't think that had much if anything to do with anything other than "that's the way it goes sometimes." At one point the Bulls had a shooting percentage of 69% ad the Kings 25%. Sometimes **** happens. When the Bulls cooled off and the Kings began hitting a reasonable percentage, the game was essentially over. Not saying we could have won anyway but we hit the court against a team that was hot.

I was not discouraged by last night's game and in fact saw some things that showed that one day of practice had added quite a bit to the Kings. There is hope.

I wholeheartedly agree. This was not the demoralizing Portland game. Yes, the transition defense was terrible, and yes the free throws were embarrassing, but there were certainly silver linings. I thought the defense had some great sequences, and they had some moments of bothering Rose and coming up with some timely steals (which thankfully shut up the guy incessantly chanting "MVP" near my section). In fact, a few close layups that rimmed out and a few loose balls that the Bulls seemed to pick up by sheer luck go the other way, and the 10 point margin looks slimmer and slimmer. Given that the Bulls are a top-five team in the league, this was not a bad loss.

 

[Quix]

Wait, so the story about the hanged guy on the Oz set is true?

no, sorry. was kidding. just an urban myth.

 

[IfAt1st]

I wholeheartedly agree. This was not the demoralizing Portland game. Yes, the transition defense was terrible, and yes the free throws were embarrassing, but there were certainly silver linings. I thought the defense had some great sequences, and they had some moments of bothering Rose and coming up with some timely steals (which thankfully shut up the guy incessantly chanting "MVP" near my section). In fact, a few close layups that rimmed out and a few loose balls that the Bulls seemed to pick up by sheer luck go the other way, and the 10 point margin looks slimmer and slimmer. Given that the Bulls are a top-five team in the league, this was not a bad loss.

These are all accurate statements. QFT.

Bulls fans were out in obnoxious force last night - they seemed to more want to be jerks than be fans of their team.
I'm glad the team fought and kept it close to not let the fans lord it over the hometeam fans ALL the game.... which is an embarrassing thing to be glad for, when you think about it.

 

[pshn80]

If Evans hits 5 more FT's I'd consider this one of his better games. Marcus and Jimmer were decent too. The guards played fine.

Unless you wanted them to play defense. I wish we could put the three of them in a pot, melt them, and then pour out two great guards. The material is there but just needs mixing up and sharing a bit.

I wonder if the Ownership and FO didn't set Evans back at least a year in his development by managing the team and Tyreke with one goal in mind - winning ROY. It worked but I think it hurt Evans and the team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Unless you wanted them to play defense. I wish we could put the three of them in a pot, melt them, and then pour out two great guards. The material is there but just needs mixing up and sharing a bit.

I wonder if the Ownership and FO didn't set Evans back at least a year in his development by managing the team and Tyreke with one goal in mind - winning ROY. It worked but I think it hurt Evans and the team.

I'm getting tired of this urban myth.

It did nothing of the sort. Reke won that ROY by being by FAR and away the best player on that team, and getting the minutes and shots that ANY coach would give to a player who was by FAR and away the best player on his team. And BTW, learnign how to be a star and take responsiblity for a team is a critical development too...unless a few years later the team institutes a system which makes that wasted knowledge.

If anything the criticism now being lobbed Reke's way stems from his comparative LACK of ego and selfishness. He's stepped back. WAY back. He's averaging 11.7 shots a game. Brandon Bass averages 12.0 a game. Hedo Turkoglu averages 12.7. Boris Diaw 11.5. I can count on one hand the number of stars around the league who would willingly do the same.

If a mistake has been made, it is in installing an offense that asks your best players to step so far back. But we will just have to see here over the next few weeks if it all comes together with rewards of its own. In the meantime the kid plays it his way, he draws fire for being selfish. He plays it the way the coaches are asking him, he draws fire for being passive or having no heart. At a certain point it says a lot more about the people doing the firing than the player in question.

 

[Kingster]

I saw the game in person, then watched it at home and took pretty close notes until 3:00 left in the 3rd when it was game over :

This is a startlingly incorrect statement.

My notes on Tyreke point to him being the main culprit in the defensive problems with the Kings.
He personally cost the Kings the most points of anyone on the roster, with Marcus Thornton a close 2nd *footnotes available on request*

There's something seriously wrong with Tyreke, folks.
He claimed on TV just before the game that he was "100% healthy" - which means this guy, in his 3rd year with plenty of opportunities to learn, is simply not getting better.



He can not get past set defenses.
He had the ball plenty of times in the halfcourt, and meekly passed the ball most of the time, and barely got by his man few of the times but missing every single drive (except one drive-and-kick assist to MT for the 3) up through 3:00 left in the 3rd qtr.
All of his layups were on breakaways and broken plays, or set plays where someone else facillitates the play and passes to him when he cuts.
Tyreke did not score one basket outside of the paint, and airballed at least 2 jumpshots.

Here's my notes just from the 2nd qtr:
* @10:45 the whole Kings team went after the bouncing rebound that Jimmer was closest to, leaving 3 Bulls players under the basket unguarded. They got the RBD, easy layup. Why did the Kings all break to go on offense during an unclaimed RBD, when the Bulls stayed in their right spots and got the basket because of it?
* Jimmer drawing fouls left and right
* Jimmer caught Tyreke slashing to the basket for the nice shoulda-been assist, but Reke inexplicably wrapped underneath the ground-bound Asik and had no chance to score, settling for FT's.
* Tyreke stymied by pressure D, was bailed out with FT's.
* Jimmer for 3
* Tyreke, on break, didn't notice the streaking Outlaw, ran into defense and lost the ball, bounced back to him, he hands it to Jimmer who misses the 3. Outlaw didn't get back on D, fastbreak basket Bulls.
* Outlaw missed the 3 (fell down) Tyreke didn't get back on D, fastbreak basket Bulls @ 8:45
* Jimmer TO, but every King is standing still on the court!
* Tyreke looking lost on transition defense.
* DMC screwed by call - did NOT hook Noah with his arm on the beautiful spin move.
* Tyreke got penetration vs unset defense - airballed jumper.
* Tyreke got easy layup around Korver on break.
* Rose drives, Tyreke completely left Rip at 3pt line so he could stand in front of Hayes while Rose passed to Rip for the 3.
* Hayes nice move! (missed shot)
* Tyreke is standing still in the key while Jimmer is always moving, guarding Rose and later Korver OK
* JT almost gets the steal
* @ 4:00 There's something wrong with Tyreke. He just did matador defense on Rose. HE LOOKS SCARED.
* Salmons penetrates, open FT jumper good.
* Hayes and DMC down low can kill teams with their good hands.
* Tyreke being destroyed by Rose - Reke is still standing still/walking whenever the ball isn't nearby him.
* Reke got the bouncing ball for layup on broken play, then promptly gambled in the backcourt, leaving Rose free to carve up the Kings D and get the assist.
* Tyreke is gassed - he's standing still on offense, too, now. Timeout @ 2:02
* After Timeout, Tyreke stayed in front of Rose and stopped the penetration!
* Tyreke got assist to MT's 3 which shouldn't have been counted
* Hayes GREAT back-door pass to cutting Reke for layup.
* Tyreke nice drive-and-kick to MT for the 3.
* Tyreke swiping/gambling, let Rose by for 2 FT's when DMC tried to get 2nd consecutive charge call.
* Tyreke out of position to receive RBD on 2nd Rose FT, got the ball with 12 seconds left and took 7 seconds to get to the other 3 pt line and start his drive. He was shut out, and barely flipped a pass (?) which DMC caught with great hands and got FT's.
End 2nd qtr

This was just the 2nd qtr, mostly-Tyreke-specific notes.

Questions:
Why does KF's think Tyreke is such a great defender?
Why does KF's think Tyreke is such a good penetrator, who can create his own shot?

P.S. Salmons was not a problem in this game.

Tyreke is out of shape. Lunges on D. Doesn't recover. Doesn't get back on D. Always conserving his energy. He's a very talented out of shape player. It's amazing he has the stats he does. His hit or miss on steals leaves the team vulnerable, and his not getting back on D really hurts the team.