Grade the Kings off-season so far
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Vlade was already on the chopping block for already not doing a good job and not being a vetted GM. He is regarded, by objective NBA fans as one of the worst GMS. We can go back on bad trades (Philly/Buddy etc), not making any differential FA signings, or the draft, but he is objectively seen as a bad GM and we can start a thread on the RealGM General Forum if we need third party assistance.
If it was Danny Ainge it was just another pick, he has that leeway. Vlade has already been at the edge and needed this pick to go his way
If Bagley turns out to be a triple its fine. But he needs to show something solid this year. He was concerning in SL
If we’re going to count Vlades losses (the Philly trade) then let’s be fair and objective and count his wins (the Boogie trade). I will give you the Philly trade being a loss. Giving up that pick could have and may still prove to be catastrophic but he has set us up with some pieces to work with and be excited about after faltering at first, but given his lack of experience that’s all we can ask from high right? Snagging Bogie is another win. The Boogie trade speaks for itself, it was a win for us no matter how you cut it up and that’s based off Buddy’s production so far, anything Giles shows is in addition. NO gave us Buddy and a top 10 pick for a year and a half of Boogie, that happened. So as long as we are auditing Vlade on bad moves (Philly) let’s praise his moves that have worked out (Buddy)
I don't think its a stretch to assume that Yogi is an upgrade on Mason or that Bjelica is better (on court) than Vince Carter. I think it stands to reason that at least some of last years rookies will be better in year 2. I don't have crazy expectations or anything because there is so much youth, but I think better chemistry, more familiarity with the system, and more familiarity with the each other leads to better basketball. I'm not trying to convince you that there is hope, only that the reasons to hope for/expect improvement are there and they aren't all that unreasonable.
Another random "fact" you've decided to toss out there? Start all the threads you like on the RealGM General Forum and guess what? Nobody will care. This isn't RealGM; it's Kingsfans. Address the points in the initial post, if you will, and give some substance to your argument instead of making blanket declarations that have no basis in fact (which I've pretty much proven every time I've called you on it).
Bring some facts to the table, not just generalizations and comments about "objective NBA fans" that you cannot support.
Bring some facts to the table, not just generalizations and comments about "objective NBA fans" that you cannot support.
Thats what my offer is. A thread on RealGM General Forum. It will be within the framework of me explaining that there is a difference of thought on this forum, and asking a yes/no on whether or not they think Vlade has done a good job and/or his job is on the line. I'll make it within the next couple of days
We can go tit for tat, with you thinking Im purposefully seeing ill about Vlade, and me thinking you will support everything regardless. But a poll with a general audience should point to what Vivek and the minority owners more or less will be influenced by
We can go tit for tat, with you thinking Im purposefully seeing ill about Vlade, and me thinking you will support everything regardless. But a poll with a general audience should point to what Vivek and the minority owners more or less will be influenced by
Actually, I might disagree with you there but I respect your viewpoint. Although frustrated by Fox, I still think he can be a franchise guard. But in a redraft, most objective third parties don't have him 5 this instance (not to say whether I would or not)
Im a fan of Fox/Buddy/Bogdan/Giles/Skal/Jackson/Yogi on the team, and think Bagley 'can' be good. But that doesn't mean I feel comfortable with the ways and means. Im a huge supporter of Buddy, but would a more vetted GM not have gotten the extra pick? It was unanimously thought the Cousins trade should've netted more. I could write a essay on everything on the previous summers.
Im a fan of Fox/Buddy/Bogdan/Giles/Skal/Jackson/Yogi on the team, and think Bagley 'can' be good. But that doesn't mean I feel comfortable with the ways and means. Im a huge supporter of Buddy, but would a more vetted GM not have gotten the extra pick? It was unanimously thought the Cousins trade should've netted more. I could write a essay on everything on the previous summers.
Dude - do whatever you like on RealGM. I wouldn't venture there if my life depended on it. And it won't prove a thing.
I do not support everything Vlade does. When he first traded Boogie, my comments were significantly hostile. But I am capable of thought and realized no matter how much I liked Boogie it was time for he and the Kings to part company. Vlade got a good deal, considering all the baggage Boogie had accumulated.
A poll on RealGM is not going to sway Vivek Ranadive or the "minority owners" of the Kings one whit. What will sway them are ticket sales and fan satisfaction. They'll look at player development and improvement. They'll look at their bottom line because this is, at the end of the day, a business.
I do not support everything Vlade does. When he first traded Boogie, my comments were significantly hostile. But I am capable of thought and realized no matter how much I liked Boogie it was time for he and the Kings to part company. Vlade got a good deal, considering all the baggage Boogie had accumulated.
A poll on RealGM is not going to sway Vivek Ranadive or the "minority owners" of the Kings one whit. What will sway them are ticket sales and fan satisfaction. They'll look at player development and improvement. They'll look at their bottom line because this is, at the end of the day, a business.
He doesn't. In fact, most players learn very quickly to stay away from any and all fan sites becaus of the mercurial nature of "FANS". Vivek undoubtedly learned his lesson when he first bought the team and was active on Twitter. We know how that turned out.
RealGM is a catch-all fan site with ELEVEN new threads on the Kings fan portion since May 1, along with a small handful of threads similar in nature to our Free Agency thread and other long-standing discussions. Some of their other dedicated forums are much larger, but for the most part, Kings fans gravitate to either StR, KF or both.
RealGM is a catch-all fan site with ELEVEN new threads on the Kings fan portion since May 1, along with a small handful of threads similar in nature to our Free Agency thread and other long-standing discussions. Some of their other dedicated forums are much larger, but for the most part, Kings fans gravitate to either StR, KF or both.
FYI - I rarely if ever do this, but considering the discussion between myself and Kingsfan23 I took a stroll over to RealGM's general discussion board. I actually found a thread that sheds a little light on how some fans of other teams (and Kings fans who may or may not post here under different names) feel about what the Kings are doing. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised. There are some cogent comments. 
Gave it an A because we haven't made any dumb signings, and we committed to developing the young guys. Two things that a franchise like ours must do in order to return to relevancy. I believe that we have the personnel needed to become a playoff team down the road; that has to be our goal and this offseason, so far, confirms our commitment to that.
Since when do I dump on the fans here? And this is a message board not a "everyone is always going to agree and sugar coat everything board". I have been a fan of this team for 28 years. So I don't like some of the moves the Kings make. Who cares! Tell me why you think I am wrong. Tell me why you think the moves are great and will make this team a playoff team. Don't just throw in the towel and tell me you can't handle someone on the message post something that you might not agree with. I get enough of that when discussing politics.
I don't think the Kings have drafted very well, and I don't think the Kings free agent signings have been enough to get us to the playoffs. I hope I am wrong, but Yogi isn't going to make us a playoff team, and he's probably the biggest guy we've signed this summer (not literally big).
I don't think the Kings have drafted very well, and I don't think the Kings free agent signings have been enough to get us to the playoffs. I hope I am wrong, but Yogi isn't going to make us a playoff team, and he's probably the biggest guy we've signed this summer (not literally big).
You said "I have no idea how fans of a team can stay positive when you are continuously rebuilding.." Should I have called that "dumping"? Probably not but your negativity is off-putting.
Why do I think you're wrong?
1. Because you gave Vlade an "F" for what at worst would be considered by most (as evidenced above) as a C
.
2. Because to the best of my recollection since you returned to KF you have had virtually nothing good to say.
I never "the moves are great and will make this a playoff team" so I'm not even going to address that.
Throw in the towel? Nope. Not what I do. What I am guilty of sometimes is refusing to continue to argue with someone who is unwilling to be realistic. (Hey, you asked...)
I don't play Thermonuclear War for much the same reason.
Why do I think you're wrong?
1. Because you gave Vlade an "F" for what at worst would be considered by most (as evidenced above) as a C
.
2. Because to the best of my recollection since you returned to KF you have had virtually nothing good to say.
I never "the moves are great and will make this a playoff team" so I'm not even going to address that.
Throw in the towel? Nope. Not what I do. What I am guilty of sometimes is refusing to continue to argue with someone who is unwilling to be realistic. (Hey, you asked...)
I don't play Thermonuclear War for much the same reason.
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Kevin Pelton at ESPN called him the most disappointing rookie in SL
It's not acceptable to leave us with that impression from him, IMO, because its usually about trajectories. Thats why Napear always said, conveniently before this year, that you can't make a lot from a player doing well in SL, but they better not do poorly
It wasn't acceptable on Marvin's behalf, or who picked him, IMO, to leave us with that taste
Fans of Chicago and Memphis etc are over the moon with Carter Jr and Jackson.. Do you think they'd trade those players for Bagley at this point?
It's trajectories. After what we've been through with picks in the last decade you can't be the most disappointing of the top picks in SL, We've been through too much with that..
Bleachreport's post SL redraft has Bagley at 12... My gut doesn't feel good.. Its just not acceptable of an SL
It's not acceptable to leave us with that impression from him, IMO, because its usually about trajectories. Thats why Napear always said, conveniently before this year, that you can't make a lot from a player doing well in SL, but they better not do poorly
It wasn't acceptable on Marvin's behalf, or who picked him, IMO, to leave us with that taste
Fans of Chicago and Memphis etc are over the moon with Carter Jr and Jackson.. Do you think they'd trade those players for Bagley at this point?
It's trajectories. After what we've been through with picks in the last decade you can't be the most disappointing of the top picks in SL, We've been through too much with that..
Bleachreport's post SL redraft has Bagley at 12... My gut doesn't feel good.. Its just not acceptable of an SL
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Well, shoot. If Kevin called him disappointing I guess he is. Darn it. I was really hoping to see him play in his first NBA game, too. I guess we should waive him, put the team up for sale, and all just become fans of the Warriors because, you know, Kevin (whoever he is) said our draft pick wasn't the best.
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And Kevin Helin of NBA Sports says:
The Kings have gotten a good look at their No. 2 pick Marvin Bagley III in July, between the Sacramento and Las Vegas Summer Leagues he played in four game. He has shown a good scoring touch (he had 15 points in his one Vegas game), and flashed his athleticism. However, going up against the Warriors’ Jordan Bell (a good defender) in Sacramento showed Bagley how he’s going to need to add some diversity and unpredictability to his game to reach his potential at the next level.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/07/1...ut-for-summer-league-with-pelvic-bone-bruise/
The Kings have gotten a good look at their No. 2 pick Marvin Bagley III in July, between the Sacramento and Las Vegas Summer Leagues he played in four game. He has shown a good scoring touch (he had 15 points in his one Vegas game), and flashed his athleticism. However, going up against the Warriors’ Jordan Bell (a good defender) in Sacramento showed Bagley how he’s going to need to add some diversity and unpredictability to his game to reach his potential at the next level.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/07/1...ut-for-summer-league-with-pelvic-bone-bruise/
I'm not sure I follow you, but I really don't care a flying whit what Kevin (whoever he is) says. I want to give our pick some time to learn the NBA game and show what he can do. I don't care if he is the best rookie or not this year. If he is one of the top 5 players from this draft over the next decade that means it was a good choice. What he does only this year doesn't mean squat.
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