Goodbye Harry

#61
the issue with Bogi is if McNeil were prepared he should have gotten 2 high 2nds (OKC’s) and a trade exception that could have been used to take back a player and another pick without having to send salaries out. It was sheer incompetence and worse than not signing Bagley, It was just as bad as Vlade not knowing he could use the stretch provision.
McNeil???
 
#62
the issue with Bogi is if McNeil were prepared he should have gotten 2 high 2nds (OKC’s) and a trade exception that could have been used to take back a player and another pick without having to send salaries out. It was sheer incompetence and worse than not signing Bagley, It was just as bad as Vlade not knowing he could use the stretch provision.
There was no trade exception in that deal, they wanted us to take back salary (Tony Snell) in exchange for the picks, and apparently gave the Kings 1 hour to decide.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#63
It was just as bad as Vlade not knowing he could use the stretch provision.
This is a horrible misconception (at best, and malicious lie at worst) which has persisted for a long time.

The bottom line is this: if you use the stretch provision, you still have to pay the player. If you trade them away, the other team pays the player.

At a time when the Kings had foregone league revenue sharing until the completion of the new arena, we were, shall we say, hurting for cash. Vlade had a plan for how to potentially use cap space. It didn't turn out to be a good plan, but it was a plan. The Kings could achieve the necessary cap space either by trading away players to a team with salary cap space to receive them, or by stretching them. The stretch option was far, far more expensive in terms of cash $$$, the one thing the Kings were hurting for at the time. Because they had foregone revenue sharing in order to get the league to agree not to move the franchise to Seattle, remember? So, strapped for cash, Vlade executed a trade instead, saving the team about $36M (in terms of today's salary cap, closer to $48M) and costing draft picks/swaps. Keep in mind, this is real money that was saved. Not just cap space. These are actual dollars that a cash-strapped franchise suddenly didn't need to take out of their own bank account to pay for players they didn't want. Cash they would have had to pay out if they had used the stretch provision.

So no, it's not remotely true that Vlade didn't know about the stretch provision. There was a concrete reason to execute a trade rather than use the stretch provision.

Note that this is entirely separate from the question of whether using that gained cap space to sign Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli was a good idea. Clearly that did not work out in any way, shape, or form. Did Vlade make bad decisions in the free agent market? Yes. Was he so dumb that he didn't know about the stretch provision? No. He simply didn't use it - because, perhaps unlike some of his detractors, Vlade understood the team still had to pay players that were stretched.
 
#64
This is a horrible misconception (at best, and malicious lie at worst) which has persisted for a long time.

The bottom line is this: if you use the stretch provision, you still have to pay the player. If you trade them away, the other team pays the player.

At a time when the Kings had foregone league revenue sharing until the completion of the new arena, we were, shall we say, hurting for cash. Vlade had a plan for how to potentially use cap space. It didn't turn out to be a good plan, but it was a plan. The Kings could achieve the necessary cap space either by trading away players to a team with salary cap space to receive them, or by stretching them. The stretch option was far, far more expensive in terms of cash $$$, the one thing the Kings were hurting for at the time. Because they had foregone revenue sharing in order to get the league to agree not to move the franchise to Seattle, remember? So, strapped for cash, Vlade executed a trade instead, saving the team about $36M (in terms of today's salary cap, closer to $48M) and costing draft picks/swaps. Keep in mind, this is real money that was saved. Not just cap space. These are actual dollars that a cash-strapped franchise suddenly didn't need to take out of their own bank account to pay for players they didn't want. Cash they would have had to pay out if they had used the stretch provision.

So no, it's not remotely true that Vlade didn't know about the stretch provision. There was a concrete reason to execute a trade rather than use the stretch provision.

Note that this is entirely separate from the question of whether using that gained cap space to sign Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli was a good idea. Clearly that did not work out in any way, shape, or form. Did Vlade make bad decisions in the free agent market? Yes. Was he so dumb that he didn't know about the stretch provision? No. He simply didn't use it - because, perhaps unlike some of his detractors, Vlade understood the team still had to pay players that were stretched.
Also on top of all that - the reason Vlade had to make that deal was because of the protections on the Casspi/Hickson deal that trapped our first round pick in purgatory for almost the entire decade so he couldn't just trade a first in the year of the trade and be done with it. It was a constant gift that kept giving because of the other mess he had to clean up - there were quite a few of them. Vlade's draft/talent evaluation was terrible and if not for that I think he did an ok job with what he had.
 
#66
There was no trade exception in that deal, they wanted us to take back salary (Tony Snell) in exchange for the picks, and apparently gave the Kings 1 hour to decide.
Geez. Read the CBA and become educated how a trade exception is generated.

the could have and should have countered the offer including Snell with one without Snell. Most league observers say Atlanta would have likely accepted as they didn’t need to include Snell. It was an opening offer, an obvious offer for which the Kings were unprepared. Stupidly so given Atlanta only had 19m in cap space left.
 
#67
This is a horrible misconception (at best, and malicious lie at worst) which has persisted for a long time.

The bottom line is this: if you use the stretch provision, you still have to pay the player. If you trade them away, the other team pays the player.

At a time when the Kings had foregone league revenue sharing until the completion of the new arena, we were, shall we say, hurting for cash. Vlade had a plan for how to potentially use cap space. It didn't turn out to be a good plan, but it was a plan. The Kings could achieve the necessary cap space either by trading away players to a team with salary cap space to receive them, or by stretching them. The stretch option was far, far more expensive in terms of cash $$$, the one thing the Kings were hurting for at the time. Because they had foregone revenue sharing in order to get the league to agree not to move the franchise to Seattle, remember? So, strapped for cash, Vlade executed a trade instead, saving the team about $36M (in terms of today's salary cap, closer to $48M) and costing draft picks/swaps. Keep in mind, this is real money that was saved. Not just cap space. These are actual dollars that a cash-strapped franchise suddenly didn't need to take out of their own bank account to pay for players they didn't want. Cash they would have had to pay out if they had used the stretch provision.

So no, it's not remotely true that Vlade didn't know about the stretch provision. There was a concrete reason to execute a trade rather than use the stretch provision.

Note that this is entirely separate from the question of whether using that gained cap space to sign Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli was a good idea. Clearly that did not work out in any way, shape, or form. Did Vlade make bad decisions in the free agent market? Yes. Was he so dumb that he didn't know about the stretch provision? No. He simply didn't use it - because, perhaps unlike some of his detractors, Vlade understood the team still had to pay players that were stretched.
not going to bother relitigating Vlade and other options to avoid giving up all the picks he gave up.
 
#68
Geez. Read the CBA and become educated how a trade exception is generated.

the could have and should have countered the offer including Snell with one without Snell. Most league observers say Atlanta would have likely accepted as they didn’t need to include Snell. It was an opening offer, an obvious offer for which the Kings were unprepared. Stupidly so given Atlanta only had 19m in cap space left.
Atlanta gave them an hour to make a decision & refused to hear any counter offers.
 
#69
Geez. Read the CBA and become educated how a trade exception is generated.

the could have and should have countered the offer including Snell with one without Snell. Most league observers say Atlanta would have likely accepted as they didn’t need to include Snell. It was an opening offer, an obvious offer for which the Kings were unprepared. Stupidly so given Atlanta only had 19m in cap space left.
If you read the articles, it said Atlanta was unclear on the contract terms, most likely they wouldn't have tried to outbid us if we were agreeing to terms. Also they gave us no time to reply. Your weird obsession with the TPE which 90%+ go unused is beyond bizarre. Also for someone who went away you're here a lot. At least follow through on your promise/threats to dump the team or don't make them.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#70
not going to bother relitigating Vlade and other options to avoid giving up all the picks he gave up.
Sorry, no moving the goalposts. The question isn't about the option Vlade chose. The question is about your insistence to assert, with zero evidence, that Vlade didn't know his options, must not have known his options because he didn't take the one you'd prefer.
 
#72
Sorry, no moving the goalposts. The question isn't about the option Vlade chose. The question is about your insistence to assert, with zero evidence, that Vlade didn't know his options, must not have known his options because he didn't take the one you'd prefer.
I’m not worried about options for Vlade but happy to disappear.