Goodbye Harry

#5
I'm surprised. If the minimum is the best Harry could get, then those of us who have been Giles fans may have been over-valuing him. Or maybe it's a conspiracy. Either way, I wish Harry the best success.
 
#6
Signed for minimum? Is Vivek's circus a toxic culture? Did he hate Luke? Or is he arguably barely worth the minimum?
well, maybe it’s the training staff he hates. Didn’t they create a big stink about him sticking with Youngman’s routine which led to him being in the doghouse early on, being smeared as lazy, and then having his option declined?
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#14

Why Vlade failed in a nutshell. Had the assets to build a winner here and just utterly failed in the draft.
This kind of analysis is always silly. Let's look at the current return on the top ten picks in the 2015 draft:
1: Karl-Anthony Towns
2: Kyle Kuzma
3: Nothing, and lost assets to trade Okafor away
4: 2021/2023 1sts (DAL, top-10 prot), Dennis Smith Jr.
5: Nothing
6: Nothing
7: Nothing
8: Nothing
9: Nothing
10: A 37-year-old Andre Igoudala, Bird Rights to Solomon Hill

So, outside of the #1 pick and the #4 pick, there's not a whole lot of assets remaining from those picks. It's a free agent league, that's the way it is.

(Yes, I decided to do the top ten before considering that Myles Turner was taken at 11. But, seriously, outside of him and Booker, it's not like the remaining assets going further into the 2015 draft is going to get much prettier.)
 
#15
well, maybe it’s the training staff he hates. Didn’t they create a big stink about him sticking with Youngman’s routine which led to him being in the doghouse early on, being smeared as lazy, and then having his option declined?
I can’t recall why the front office pushed Pete Youngman out. Probably some petty stuff. Harry looked in good shape in camp and is a hard worker. What’s not to like? I do recall Geoff Petrie characterizing Vivek as “a very arrogant and dismissive little chap.” Looks like Harry was punished/dismissed for some perceived wrong doing by FO. Portland will be a good situation for Harry and Kings FO will be the fool again. Not just Vlade or Monte. This root here is with Vivek and Matina IMO. Concern here that owner meddling continues with Luke, Harry and more.
 
#16
This kind of analysis is always silly. Let's look at the current return on the top ten picks in the 2015 draft:
1: Karl-Anthony Towns
2: Kyle Kuzma
3: Nothing, and lost assets to trade Okafor away
4: 2021/2023 1sts (DAL, top-10 prot), Dennis Smith Jr.
5: Nothing
6: Nothing
7: Nothing
8: Nothing
9: Nothing
10: A 37-year-old Andre Igoudala, Bird Rights to Solomon Hill

So, outside of the #1 pick and the #4 pick, there's not a whole lot of assets remaining from those picks. It's a free agent league, that's the way it is.

(Yes, I decided to do the top ten before considering that Myles Turner was taken at 11. But, seriously, outside of him and Booker, it's not like the remaining assets going further into the 2015 draft is going to get much prettier.)
So are you saying most GMs suck at the draft, or that the returns on draft picks mostly suck?
 
#17
This kind of analysis is always silly. Let's look at the current return on the top ten picks in the 2015 draft:
1: Karl-Anthony Towns
2: Kyle Kuzma
3: Nothing, and lost assets to trade Okafor away
4: 2021/2023 1sts (DAL, top-10 prot), Dennis Smith Jr.
5: Nothing
6: Nothing
7: Nothing
8: Nothing
9: Nothing
10: A 37-year-old Andre Igoudala, Bird Rights to Solomon Hill

So, outside of the #1 pick and the #4 pick, there's not a whole lot of assets remaining from those picks. It's a free agent league, that's the way it is.

(Yes, I decided to do the top ten before considering that Myles Turner was taken at 11. But, seriously, outside of him and Booker, it's not like the remaining assets going further into the 2015 draft is going to get much prettier.)
awesome counterpoint. thanks for this!
 
#18
Vlade was an inept GM, and his poor decisions have wreaked damage on the franchise. It makes no sense whatsoever to invest a whole year into re-habbing Giles only to throw away your chance to retain him at a bargain price. Harry has talent and he seems like a good person, but with the overall talent on the current Kings roster I don’t believe that HG is enough of a difference-maker in regards to wins and losses.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#19
So are you saying most GMs suck at the draft, or that the returns on draft picks mostly suck?
I would say that my point is that the long-term return on draft picks mostly sucks. Most players who get drafted play for the team that drafted them for a couple of years and then leave in free agency. Obviously there are exceptions, but when you trace forward what a team has in exchange for a draft pick, particularly 5 years down the line, very often there's little to no value remaining. The value, as it were, has already been accrued in the playing time that the team got from the player.

For our sake, it could be pointed out that Fox has signed a five-year extension, meaning at the moment we have 9 years worth of value from that pick. Cousins was traded for (among other things) Buddy, who has a four-year extension himself, and via the Zach Collilns-Justin Jackson route, Harrison Barnes, who has three years on his current deal. That's a 2010 pick that is currently still paying dividends, giving us seven more seasons worth of top rotation players (if somehow Buddy isn't starting) through 2024. It happens.

But when players leave in free agency (outside of the relatively uncommon S&T) that's it. That's the end of the asset line. Bogdanovic's asset line may end for the Kings in two days, but we don't really know how that will turn out yet. And, although it was claimed that if we don't match Bogdan, it would end the asset line for the #8 pick in 2016, that's actually not correct. That asset line included the #35 pick this year, which was traded for Woodard and a 2022 second (lesser of DET/CHI). So that asset line is still chugging along even without Bogdan.
 
#20
This is one instance where if Vlade brought him back for 2-3 years at 3.5 million he'd wind up looking smart for overpaying a player, something that happened more than a few times over the course of a player's tenure here. I have no doubt that is exactly the type of thing that would have happened, but I do truly wish Harry well and I'm glad I can at least continue wishing him good health and success for a team I like.
 
#21
I can't help but think there is more going on behind the scenes with Harry that we aren't aware of. Vlade wasn't interested in keeping him around. McNair didn't even want to keep him on a minimum contract.

Unless McNair just wants cleanse the franchise of all things Vlade to rebuild around Fox and Haliburton. I've seen people mention here that both Giles and Baze were interested in coming back, and both are now signed with other teams.
 
#22
I think McNair is stealth tanking. Actually it's not even stealth. And yes, he did not want to tie down more investment in Giles who is clearly still a long term project right now. If this team were going to compete, Baze would have been an easy call.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#24
the minimum is plenty for a player of Harry's injury history and production. This is his opportunity to show the Blazers and the other teams in the association if he is worth more. Hopefully Stotts gives him some run.
 
#25
I think McNair is stealth tanking. Actually it's not even stealth. And yes, he did not want to tie down more investment in Giles who is clearly still a long term project right now. If this team were going to compete, Baze would have been an easy call.
He absolutely should tank. We are arguably the worst team in the West and a bottom 7 team overall. The next two drafts are loaded with talent. It's the smart play.
 
#26

Why Vlade failed in a nutshell. Had the assets to build a winner here and just utterly failed in the draft.
The above, along with the draft history preceding Vlade, is why I always laugh at the pro-Hinkie crowd. The KINGS have been in position to draft legit players but have missed at nearly every turn. Somehow fielding worse rosters to hope for top 3 picks is gonna change any of that? I mean, last time they drafted #2 — they selected the wrong player.

It’s hard enough to follow this team as a fan when they are always out of the postseason. But who wants to watch a g-league team have zero chance to win most every night only to then seem them blow the draft selections anyway???

The answer is get the right talent evaluators and decision makers in place. That way it doesn’t matter where the team drafts, they’ll find and develop players regardless. And you can slowly build a positive winning culture by competing hard every night while fielding the legitimate best roster possible.

Hopefully this new FO are those “right“ people. Finally.