Kingster
Hall of Famer
Yes, that's why I used the wink icon.
George Karl says Isaiah Thomas has brought some "common sense" to the Kings game
- Thread starter BMiller52
- Start date
Yes, that's why I used the wink icon.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
I think it's because a rose is a rose. It's semantics and I'm just short-handing it to the classification of point guard. We all know a classification of anything isn't perfect. If I recall, you're a doctor, and so you know about Kingdom, Phylum, Class, etc. and you know that there are critters that don't fall perfectly within those classications. Call the position "primary ballhandler" instead of point guard. Call it the "quarterback" of the offense. Call it "the primary ballhandler" or the "guy who initiates the offense". I don't care what you call it, on a "continuum of ballhandling ability" I don't see Tyreke Evans as being that guy.
As far as him being a guard, that's fine - a two-guard. He's a very good ballhandler for a two guard. BUT he has to learn how to shoot if he's a 2-guard. He's somewhat undersized for a SF, but this team doesn't have a decent SF so that's why Smart has him playing that position some. If we had a taller shooting guard (or pg) then it would be easier to play Tyreke at the 3.
If I had to guess, I'd guess that Kings management is having the same type of internal debate about the role of Tyreke going forward. They just have to be. You see it in the vacillation of Smart on how he uses Tyreke. He can't figure it out either. It seems like last year they were absolutely certain that by getting a good 3, all their problems would be solved. I wonder what they are thinking now?
I think we're still looking for a good 3.
If we get a three that can shoot and defend, that would also solve the problem, no?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You can NOT per 36 compare major starters to 20 min benchers. There is absolutely NO eveidence that our rooks can be 19ppg scorers in this league, none at all.
I've already tried this argument and people won't buy it.
What I don't get about all the Evans detractors/Thomas supporters (who seem to be the same group) is how anyone can believe that Thomas's development as a PG is more important that Evans development overall. We are sacrificing the development of a potentially dominant guard in Evans (in the mold of Wade) for a player who's potential is capped by size and ability. And I like what Thomas could bring to this table, as a change of pace guard off the bench.
I keep hearing that this move to SF is good for Evans so he can play off the ball. Why would we want that? Its not that I don't think he would be better served by learning off the ball skills, but that completely eliminates the potential he has and his potential is enormous. But its enormous as an oversized, physically dominant guard that learns how to improve his court vision, not as an undersize, off the ball small forward. Thomas would have to buck every trend in nba history (including his own during everything but about 3 weeks of his short career) to provide anything close to the value that even a Tyreke at 75% of his potential would bring.
How can some fans here be so short sited? Is the fact that Evans has only marginally improved his court vision in basically 2 years with no coaching, massively mixed signals and the most wacky offense in the nba that hard to understand. He's 22, less than 2 years from a Rookie of the Year season. You don't disrupt his game because of a tiny, shiny new toy.
Larry David
Starter
They have to try build a team, not just Evans. Right now, Evans is the 2nd best player on a really bad team. The attempt to make him into a Westbrook or Rose failed. The team played better when they actually used a point, even if he's an undersized rookie.
If things break our way, and we get a top 3 pick, Evans might soon be the 3rd best player on the team. Other than trying to get Davis, is makes no sense to delay the growth of the other 11 players and the team's growth and style of play so Evans can try to master a position that he'll never play winning basketball at.
Evans is stuck at 3, because they loaded the roster with players that should be shooting guards in Thornton, Salmons, and - at least for now - Jimmer. Because they have no small forward and Evans is bigger than Thornton, he has to play forward. That's it.
Because explosive scoring point guards are so valuable, it made sense to try. But 2 1/2 years later, it makes no sense to keep playing a shooting guard that can't shoot out of position. Particularly, when it's hurting the team and it's not clear that the player in question can become a regular all star.
The tried to put the team around Evans. Now it's time for Evans to build his game while working around what the team needs. This happens a lot.
If things break our way, and we get a top 3 pick, Evans might soon be the 3rd best player on the team. Other than trying to get Davis, is makes no sense to delay the growth of the other 11 players and the team's growth and style of play so Evans can try to master a position that he'll never play winning basketball at.
Evans is stuck at 3, because they loaded the roster with players that should be shooting guards in Thornton, Salmons, and - at least for now - Jimmer. Because they have no small forward and Evans is bigger than Thornton, he has to play forward. That's it.
Because explosive scoring point guards are so valuable, it made sense to try. But 2 1/2 years later, it makes no sense to keep playing a shooting guard that can't shoot out of position. Particularly, when it's hurting the team and it's not clear that the player in question can become a regular all star.
The tried to put the team around Evans. Now it's time for Evans to build his game while working around what the team needs. This happens a lot.
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The team has gone 2-7 with Thomas running the show (when over half those opponents were the worst teams in the league). Thomas has averaged 11 points, 5 assists and 3 boards with close to 4 turnovers and 38% shooting since the all star break. Why did this make the Evans experiment as a guard suddenly over?
Westbrook wasn't any more productive at the same age. Rose's development skyrocketed once they brought in a better coach. Dwyane Wade put up similar stats as a 22 year old. That's just 3 examples of guys that Evans had similar production and challenges at 22 years old. And all 3 improved with better coaching, more cohesive teams and time. There is nothing that suggests Evans can't improve, doesn't want to improve. But he's less likely to improve (which is far more important to this team's future than Isaiah's) if he's not over-matched at sf.
I apologize, because I hate when posters pick and choose points - it seems like an argument. You do have a couple separate points that I want to address, though.
He's generally carried the team in stretches when DMC wasn't on. Look back at the Denver game. He's done that quite a bit lately, actually. You want a guy who can get the buckets at the rim when nothing else is falling for anyone else. That's a rare quality.
We just see or focus the 1 or 2 things he does poorly, as opposed to the 9 or 10 things he does in keeping us in games.
This is what chaps my hide when posters (not just you, per se) say this. Where did we play better? We scored more points and gave up more points. We lost more games. We were equally as competitive in the games leading up to the switch as we were after the switch, and against harder competition to boot.
If the reasoning for Evans at the 3 is because there is no better option, then I guess that's a fair stance to take. I don't agree with it, but it's better than saying he can't play the 1, because the stats show that he has been doing quite well prior to IT starting.
I don't think we've tried him as a shooting guard. If we were dead-set on switching Evans, it makes sense to move him to the 2, not the 3.
He's generally carried the team in stretches when DMC wasn't on. Look back at the Denver game. He's done that quite a bit lately, actually. You want a guy who can get the buckets at the rim when nothing else is falling for anyone else. That's a rare quality.
We just see or focus the 1 or 2 things he does poorly, as opposed to the 9 or 10 things he does in keeping us in games.
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