Follow Kings players in FIBA World Cup games

[ESP47]

I honestly can't wrap my head around even having a discussion about who will contribute more to winning this coming season between Bjelica and Bagley. Really? Beli is 31 years old, is half the athlete that Bagley is. He has one thing he does well, shoot three's. I lost count last season of how many times I yelled at Beli to shoot the dam ball as he passed up open three's to drive into traffic. So much for BBIQ!

As for defense, both players posted a Drtg of 110 on a team that had little to no defensive scheme in place. Joerger admitted that he didn't install any kind of switching defense. So it was basically, fly by the seat of your pants. That probably works for a veteran player whose been around the block a few times, but not so much for a rookie who has never been asked to play any kind of defense.

Look, I like Beli and I'm not trying to diminish his abilities, but lets not confuse him with a budding star. Beli would likely only start for a few teams in the NBA, while the Kings look at Bagley as a future all star. I happen to agree with them. In 23 mpg last season Beli scored 9.6 points, grabbed 5.8 rebounds and blocked 0.6 shots. But he did what he was supposed to do in most cases shooting 40.1% from the three.

Bagley played 2 minutes more than Beli and scored 14.9 points, grabbed 7.6 rebounds, and blocked 1.0 shots. Actually, he was the leading shotblocker on the team. (very sad) Yes, he only shot 31.3% from the three, which shouldn't shock anyone since he hadn't made his reputation by shooting three's. What is encouraging is that in his final 20 games he shot 35.7% from the three. However, overall he only took 96 attempts versus Beli's 257 attempts. So hardly a fair comparison.

I think the battle for minutes will be between Beli and Holmes, and that will likely be determined by matchups. I suspect that Bagley will average around 32 to 34 minutes a game along with Fox and Barnes. Ariza will get whatever minutes Barnes doesn't, and may actually have some of his minutes stolen by Bog's if the Kings go small. How many minutes Giles gets depends on how big a leap he can make this year, and perhaps the match up, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Giles and Dedmon split the available minutes at center.

The Kings have the ability to match up with almost anyone, at least on paper, but make no mistake, their priority is still to develop their young core, and that's where the bulk of the minutes will go

Beli was head and shoulders better than Bagley last year as far as contributing to wins went.

Beli spent the first few months of the year in the top 25 in both RPM and VORP. Bagley spent the entire season near the bottom couple dozen in RPM. It's no coincidence that the Kings wins started to tail off around the same time Beli's play started to tail off.

Beli's defensive RPM was good for 115th in the league. Bagley was good for 493rd. To put it in perspective, Giles was 230th and WCS was 27th in the league.

Bagley played losing basketball overall while Beli played a high level of winning basketball. I expect Bagley to get better and Beli to get worse or hold pat but it's not crazy to think that the gap might not be closed in Bagley's second season when there was such a huge gap between the two last season.

 

[rosa u podne]

 

[sactowndog]

I honestly can't wrap my head around even having a discussion about who will contribute more to winning this coming season between Bjelica and Bagley. Really? Beli is 31 years old, is half the athlete that Bagley is. He has one thing he does well, shoot three's. I lost count last season of how many times I yelled at Beli to shoot the dam ball as he passed up open three's to drive into traffic. So much for BBIQ!

As for defense, both players posted a Drtg of 110 on a team that had little to no defensive scheme in place. Joerger admitted that he didn't install any kind of switching defense. So it was basically, fly by the seat of your pants. That probably works for a veteran player whose been around the block a few times, but not so much for a rookie who has never been asked to play any kind of defense.

Look, I like Beli and I'm not trying to diminish his abilities, but lets not confuse him with a budding star. Beli would likely only start for a few teams in the NBA, while the Kings look at Bagley as a future all star. I happen to agree with them. In 23 mpg last season Beli scored 9.6 points, grabbed 5.8 rebounds and blocked 0.6 shots. But he did what he was supposed to do in most cases shooting 40.1% from the three.

Bagley played 2 minutes more than Beli and scored 14.9 points, grabbed 7.6 rebounds, and blocked 1.0 shots. Actually, he was the leading shotblocker on the team. (very sad) Yes, he only shot 31.3% from the three, which shouldn't shock anyone since he hadn't made his reputation by shooting three's. What is encouraging is that in his final 20 games he shot 35.7% from the three. However, overall he only took 96 attempts versus Beli's 257 attempts. So hardly a fair comparison.

I think the battle for minutes will be between Beli and Holmes, and that will likely be determined by matchups. I suspect that Bagley will average around 32 to 34 minutes a game along with Fox and Barnes. Ariza will get whatever minutes Barnes doesn't, and may actually have some of his minutes stolen by Bog's if the Kings go small. How many minutes Giles gets depends on how big a leap he can make this year, and perhaps the match up, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Giles and Dedmon split the available minutes at center.

The Kings have the ability to match up with almost anyone, at least on paper, but make no mistake, their priority is still to develop their young core, and that's where the bulk of the minutes will go

I agree with much of this except the battle between Beli and Holmes. As of now we have 2 stretch bigs on the roster: Dedmon and Beli. One of them will be on the floor. Unless Giles or Bagley has dramatically improved his shooting, Holmes and Giles will battle for time.

 

[sactowndog]

Impressive shooting by Bogi. I wonder if they are going to play him less with the ball in his hands and more off the ball. His shots were almost all coming off screens in a catch and shoot mode. For us Bogi often had the ball in his hands and shot step back threes. Something he did at a low efficiency. He has catch and shoot success at a high rate.

 

[Peja]

Impressive shooting by Bogi. I wonder if they are going to play him less with the ball in his hands and more off the ball. His shots were almost all coming off screens in a catch and shoot mode. For us Bogi often had the ball in his hands and shot step back threes. Something he did at a low efficiency. He has catch and shoot success at a high rate.

That's a very good point. Serbia has 2 point guards (plus Jokic who likes to have the ball in his hands), so Bogi is 100% focused on executing plays, coming off screens and shooting. Based on his body language, you can see how confident he is and his shooting percentages are lot higher compared to last season with Kings.

I feel like Walton needs to follow the same principle with him next season and have Bogi play consistently on the SG position. That way we'll get the most out of him.

 

[Peja]

Gotta love that Kings connection at 00:49

 

[sactowndog]

That's a very good point. Serbia has 2 point guards (plus Jokic who likes to have the ball in his hands), so Bogi is 100% focused on executing plays, coming off screens and shooting. Based on his body language, you can see how confident he is and his shooting percentages are lot higher compared to last season with Kings.

I feel like Walton needs to follow the same principle with him next season and have Bogi play consistently on the SG position. That way we'll get the most out of him.

View attachment 9263

Well the Kings second team could look a lot like the Serbian national team. You would have Joseph with the ball in his hands as a back-up point guard. Beli and Bogi would be same. Ariza is a good 3 and D player and Giles as a passing big is a mini Jokic.

 

[rosa u podne]

Gotta love that Kings connection at 00:49

It was an impressive NBA action: Jokic to Bjelica to Bogdanovic.

 

[rosa u podne]

Cory Joseph scored 24 points for Canada in 82:60 win against Senegal.

BoxScore

 

[joemama]

Chris Miller @cmillsnbcs
Looks like Rui Hachimura is done. Tough game despite the dunk on Turner. (2-8 FG) 4 pts. 4 rebs. Ast. 2 steals. Great experience for him to see have the games will be on the NBA level. Harrison Barnes defend him well. #FIBAWC

I think USA might defeat Japan.

 

[joemama]

Tim Reynolds @ByTimReynolds
USA up 62. Average US win over Japan in three previous meetings: 61.

 

[ESP47]

I wish NBA games were reffed like FIBA. 12 free throws a piece for each team.

 

[rosa u podne]

Harrison Barnes scored 14 points and grabbed 8 rebounds for the USA in 98:45 win against Japan.

BoxScore

 

[Tetsujin]

Saying this as a Japanese citizen, it is a miracle Team Japan even scored 45 points.

 

[Kangztillidie]

That's a very good point. Serbia has 2 point guards (plus Jokic who likes to have the ball in his hands), so Bogi is 100% focused on executing plays, coming off screens and shooting. Based on his body language, you can see how confident he is and his shooting percentages are lot higher compared to last season with Kings.

I feel like Walton needs to follow the same principle with him next season and have Bogi play consistently on the SG position. That way we'll get the most out of him.

View attachment 9263

Great points all around. Bogi needs to be off the ball and running around screens like Reggie Miller style. His shooting is so much more accurate off the pass than the bounce.

Dude is averaging 24 pts on +60% shooting from 2 AND 3. If Walton can use hin correctly dude is gonna have a career year. He looks like he is making the leap we wanted to see last year. Just hope he can remain healthy and get a little rest after FIBA.

 

[bajaden]

Well, we discuss it because they will probably share minutes at the PF position. Bagley is the future of the Kings, Bjelica has one more season to play for the Kings. However, we usually predict future performance based on the passed one. Last year, Bjelica contributed more to winning (on average) because of the outside shooting that opened space for Fox and even WCS (to roll and dunk), rebounding, and solid individual and help defense. Bagley progressed nicely during the season and if he continues to improve this season, there is no doubt he will be huge force for the Kings. If nothing unexpected happens, he will be the starter. IMO, after playing during the summer with the national team, Bjelica might miss games due to injury or exhaustion. It would be actually better if the coach gives him reduced minutes and even rest him some games. In-form Bjelica would be a valuable option in PO.

I think when you evaluate a veteran player, it's fair to look at his past history, especially if he's been in the league for 4 or more years. But I never do it with a 1st year player, especially one as talented as Bagley. If you go back and look at many of the HOF players first year in the league, it's wasn't much to write home about. So I think you can look at Beli's last four years, and make a fairly good assumption of what your going to get. Not so with Bagley...

When I look at a players first year in the NBA, I like to break it down into four parts, and see if there's significant progression, especially in the last 20 or so games. In Bagley's first 20 games he averaged 12.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, shot 50.9% overall, and 31.8% from the three. In Bagley's last 20 games he averaged 18.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, shot 52.1% overall, and 39.5% from the three. I think it helped him playing with the starters for most of those games, just like it helped Bjelica at the beginning of the year.

Plus, everything I heard from the USA camp was extremely positive, with Bagley getting rave reviews as one of the best players there. The first time I saw Bagley play, he reminded me of another skinny 6'11" freak athlete. A player Petrie suggested to Vivek that he should draft. I'm speaking of Giannis Antetokoumpo. I know some will say, wow, how can you compare Bagley to one of the leagues superstars? Well, if you go back to the beginning, Giannis was nothing but a thin 6'11" player who had less skills than Bagley does now. The main thing they had in common was their athleticism, and height.

In his first year Giannis averaged 24 mpg, scored 6.8 ppg and grabbed 4.4 rebounds. His second year he was a little better averaging 31 mpg while scoring 12.7 ppg and grabbing 6.7 rebounds. It wasn't until his third year that he started to look like the player we see today. Bagley is far ahead of where Giannis was at the same point in time. Of course that doesn't mean we'll have the same outcome, but I wouldn't bet against it. Bagley has a terrific work ethic, and has a chip on his shoulder. I look for him to explode this season.

 

[sactowndog]

I think when you evaluate a veteran player, it's fair to look at his past history, especially if he's been in the league for 4 or more years. But I never do it with a 1st year player, especially one as talented as Bagley. If you go back and look at many of the HOF players first year in the league, it's wasn't much to write home about. So I think you can look at Beli's last four years, and make a fairly good assumption of what your going to get. Not so with Bagley...

When I look at a players first year in the NBA, I like to break it down into four parts, and see if there's significant progression, especially in the last 20 or so games. In Bagley's first 20 games he averaged 12.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, shot 50.9% overall, and 31.8% from the three. In Bagley's last 20 games he averaged 18.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, shot 52.1% overall, and 39.5% from the three. I think it helped him playing with the starters for most of those games, just like it helped Bjelica at the beginning of the year.

Plus, everything I heard from the USA camp was extremely positive, with Bagley getting rave reviews as one of the best players there. The first time I saw Bagley play, he reminded me of another skinny 6'11" freak athlete. A player Petrie suggested to Vivek that he should draft. I'm speaking of Giannis Antetokoumpo. I know some will say, wow, how can you compare Bagley to one of the leagues superstars? Well, if you go back to the beginning, Giannis was nothing but a thin 6'11" player who had less skills than Bagley does now. The main thing they had in common was their athleticism, and height.

In his first year Giannis averaged 24 mpg, scored 6.8 ppg and grabbed 4.4 rebounds. His second year he was a little better averaging 31 mpg while scoring 12.7 ppg and grabbing 6.7 rebounds. It wasn't until his third year that he started to look like the player we see today. Bagley is far ahead of where Giannis was at the same point in time. Of course that doesn't mean we'll have the same outcome, but I wouldn't bet against it. Bagley has a terrific work ethic, and has a chip on his shoulder. I look for him to explode this season.

I’m not sure why people are comparing Bagley and Beli. To me it’s like apples and oranges. Bagley has an athleticism and ability to score in the paint Beli could only dream about. Conversely, Bagley will never be the shooter Beli will be. If you have a game on the line and need someone to inbound the ball and be free for a pass back and 3... Beli would be high on my list.

If either Beli or Bagley were big enough to guard 5 they would be a perfect tandem.

 

[Cojc]

I have been hoping for awhile that they let Bogi play to his strengths.
With our better all around roster and a new coach we are able to achieve that goal.

 

[upinsmoke]

I have been hoping for awhile that they let Bogi play to his strengths.
With our better all around roster and a new coach we are able to achieve that goal.

I was so not feeling Bogi at PG/SF.

 

[rosa u podne]

Serbia won against Puerto Rico 90:47.

Bjelica scored 18 points (6/10 from the field, 2/2 FTs), grabbed 6 rebounds, and dished 3 assists.
Bogdanovic: 5 points (1/8 FGs, 2/2 FTs), 2 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 TOs.

BoxScore

 

[rosa u podne]

I think when you evaluate a veteran player, it's fair to look at his past history, especially if he's been in the league for 4 or more years. But I never do it with a 1st year player, especially one as talented as Bagley. If you go back and look at many of the HOF players first year in the league, it's wasn't much to write home about. So I think you can look at Beli's last four years, and make a fairly good assumption of what your going to get. Not so with Bagley...

When I look at a players first year in the NBA, I like to break it down into four parts, and see if there's significant progression, especially in the last 20 or so games. In Bagley's first 20 games he averaged 12.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, shot 50.9% overall, and 31.8% from the three. In Bagley's last 20 games he averaged 18.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, shot 52.1% overall, and 39.5% from the three. I think it helped him playing with the starters for most of those games, just like it helped Bjelica at the beginning of the year.

Plus, everything I heard from the USA camp was extremely positive, with Bagley getting rave reviews as one of the best players there. The first time I saw Bagley play, he reminded me of another skinny 6'11" freak athlete. A player Petrie suggested to Vivek that he should draft. I'm speaking of Giannis Antetokoumpo. I know some will say, wow, how can you compare Bagley to one of the leagues superstars? Well, if you go back to the beginning, Giannis was nothing but a thin 6'11" player who had less skills than Bagley does now. The main thing they had in common was their athleticism, and height.

In his first year Giannis averaged 24 mpg, scored 6.8 ppg and grabbed 4.4 rebounds. His second year he was a little better averaging 31 mpg while scoring 12.7 ppg and grabbing 6.7 rebounds. It wasn't until his third year that he started to look like the player we see today. Bagley is far ahead of where Giannis was at the same point in time. Of course that doesn't mean we'll have the same outcome, but I wouldn't bet against it. Bagley has a terrific work ethic, and has a chip on his shoulder. I look for him to explode this season.

I have high expectations from Bagley, based on his abilities and progression during the season, and I said that in a few words. What we were discussing here, were not so much countable statistics, but the overall impact, winning contribution. So, once again, regardless of statistics, I expect from Bagley to improve his defense and be a huge positive factor. He is the young core player, the future for the Kings, and he will start and play significant minutes, no doubt about it.

 

[joemama]

Bogdanovic: 5 points (1/8 FGs)

Yikes 1/8!

 

[rosa u podne]

Yikes 1/8!

The whole team was playing well, so teammates were not looking for him. He shot from time to time, with no rhythm. Not a big deal, when necessary he will again take the team on his back.

 

[rosa u podne]

 

[sactowndog]

The whole team was playing well, so teammates were not looking for him. He shot from time to time, with no rhythm. Not a big deal, when necessary he will again take the team to his back.

Rosa. Did you watch the game? Were his shots catch and shoot type shots coming off screens or was he shooting off the dribble?

 

[rosa u podne]

Rosa. Did you watch the game? Were his shots catch and shoot type shots coming off screens or was he shooting off the dribble?

He had a couple of penetrations ending by a layup or reverse that went in and out, one of them might still go in, but Marjanovic just touched it to make sure it does. In all games so far Bogi was either driving to the basket or he was catching and shooting off screens.

 

[sactowndog]

He had a couple of penetration ending by a layup or reverse that went in and out, one of them might still go in, but Marjanovic just touched it to make sure it does. In all games so far Bogi either was driving to the basket or was catching and shooting off screens.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[rosa u podne]

Cory Joseph scored 11 points, grabbed 5 rebounds, dished 8 assists with only 1 TO for Canada in 126:61 win against Jordan.

BoxScore

 

[rosa u podne]

Barnes scored 9 points, grabbed 7 rebounds and had 3 steals for the USA in 65:53 win against Greece.

BoxScore

 

[joemama]

The U.S. (4-0) can clinch a quarterfinal berth Monday in multiple ways. It needs either a win over Brazil or a Greece win over the Czech Republic or through a three-way tiebreaker, if necessary.