Fire Walton
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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100% I do, it's not the losing it's how we're losing.
He was definitely getting fired based on the final ~20 games of the season. I went on a cruise somewhere along that stretch and when I came back they had gone from hanging onto playoff contention to season over. The stuff with Williams and how he treated Buddy and the way he gave Bagley minutes, how he played Barnes after we acquired him, forcing Buddy/Bogi on the court when they do not mesh... I don't miss him to be honest. And I won't miss Luke.Vlade had already decided to fire Joeger before that last game.
I think Joeger threw that last game because he found out mid-game he was going to be fired. I remember the players whispering to each other in the middle of the game. Then in the second half, Joeger threw out the whole end of the bench to finish the final 2 quarters and squash any hope of a 40 win season.
I don't know the answer but I'm not keen on picking up a retread with a familiar name. I think we just ride out with Gentry and get our guy in the offseason. Maybe Gentry can at least mend some fences.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Right. I can tolerate losing if it comes with the young guys/the core guys looking good/ at least looking like they’re learning something/growing. What I can’t stand is Luke tightening the rotations/riding the vets/doing whatever the hell he does at halftime to put us on a record setting pace of badness
We are still going to lose a lot of games but it would be nice if we found minutes for players that aren't on the trade block or one year rentals while Monte forges the team he wants. Luke is doing damage to our relationship with Bagley and if he's a bust he's a bust. If he gets run out by a coach and blows up elsewhere, that is the absolute nightmare scenario.
Im getting pretty sick of this and one of these two things need to happen: either Monte needs to tell Walton to stop playing guys like CoJo and promise him that he wont be judged by the win total. Other option is to fire Walton now because he is trying to save his job by playing vets too much and promote Gentry with clear instructions of playing and developing young guys and focusing to the future. Its the ultimate Kangz move to ride your vets to 11th seed and 8th pick in the draft instead of letting young guys learn the game and actually be in a position to draft a star level player.
During covid you wont have fans at the arena, its the best possible time to tell this fanbase that "hey, we are focusing on the future, be patient while we develope our young guys this year and try to get the missing piece next to fox and haliburton in the draft". Trying to reach the 10th-11th seed is the worst possible outcome when you play your vet players that wont be here long term.
During covid you wont have fans at the arena, its the best possible time to tell this fanbase that "hey, we are focusing on the future, be patient while we develope our young guys this year and try to get the missing piece next to fox and haliburton in the draft". Trying to reach the 10th-11th seed is the worst possible outcome when you play your vet players that wont be here long term.
kb02
All-Star
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
These don’t look like dudes happy with the Luke Walton experience.Kings GM Monte McNair and owner Vivek Ranadive as the 3rd quarter was coming to an end tonight. pic.twitter.com/WN3G7vaFiF
— Sean Cunningham (@SeanCunningham) January 16, 2021
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Because that topic is more exciting than watching them play, let alone actually talking about it.
Clearly, they were texting D'Antoni.
steelevt
All-Star
Monte: Hey Siri, list the top coaching candidates still available.
Fire the coach is the first thing Kings' fans come up with. They have been running coaches out of town for 15 years of hapless play.
What what you give to have Mike Malone back?
Dave Joerger?
Adelman?
28 different coaches since 1945.
If you want to win horse races you need fast horses.
What what you give to have Mike Malone back?
Dave Joerger?
Adelman?
28 different coaches since 1945.
If you want to win horse races you need fast horses.
whozit
Starter
Walton needs to go. He talks about respecting the game and accountability but he himself takes none. In the Athletic article today he basically throws the players under the bus and says it's not on him for effort. Partly true but partial truth is still a whole lie.
As others of said, it's not the losing, it's how you are losing. Losing with your future is one thing, losing without is something totally different. I would not be surprised if Dumars is in Walton's corner and McNair is not.
As others of said, it's not the losing, it's how you are losing. Losing with your future is one thing, losing without is something totally different. I would not be surprised if Dumars is in Walton's corner and McNair is not.
whozit
Starter
Malone wasn't because of effort, that was because of a power play. It would not surprise me if Walton being still here is because of a power struggle and that, if true, is on Vivek.
macadocious
Starter
Nobody wanted Adelman fired. Maloofs blamed the diminishing wins on him instead of an aging injured roster that was losing talent annually.
Nobody wanted Malone fired. That has been debated ad nauseam on here.
Some wanted Joerger fired. Unfortunately, I think at the moment he needed to be, but i did not want him to be. I think he's a top 15 coach in this league, the problem is, he's an butthead. So he got himself fired.
Now Walton. Walton has sheen from the games he coached for the Warriors while Kerr was recovering from back surgery. Many (myself included) thought that was pretty impressive. He seemed to be having fun then, smiling a lot, players and that staff seemed to love him. Then he got his dream job in LA. Something changed, he didn't seem to enjoy himself anymore. His demeanor was different. Maybe it's really easy to look perky when you coach a team that is running itself to 39-4 record while you are at the helm.
I'm making a lot of assumptions, but something is off. This team is 13 games into the season, and we have seen like 3 different iterations of it already. We have seen a dozen different defensive schemes, and whenever things aren't going well, we go back to boring not very efficient offense of the beginning of last season. Its like a crutch.
Now, add in that McNair didn't hire him and what has been talked about space and pace has not happened. Well...its inevitable. I just hope we don't have too many players that we want to keep or prop up there value getting so disengaged that this ends up being a train wreck season beyond the losses. I can handle the losses.
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
This last sentence is really the reason why he should go. Oh, yes, don't get me wrong, having the worst defense in NBA history with a fairly talented defensive roster (WHITESIDE!), and a potentially elite defensive backcourst (Fox and Hali), is reason enough, but it's clear now that he was simply using this position as a springboard to another HC job... my guess is he wants the Clippers job. Won't happen anytime soon though. Poor Luke
Fire Walton.
sactowndog
All-Star
the blame primarily lies in 2 spots
1) Buddy Hield has the worst defensive Field Goal percentage for players who have played more than 10 games. Players are shooting 11.6% better then their average when guarded by Buddy. Letting Bogi go for Buddy was a bad idea if you want to win.
2) Marvin Bagley has the 2nd worst defensive field goal percentage for players who have played more than 10 games. 11.1%. At least in Marvin’s case he is getting better. Whether you want to pay him $10M next year is an open question but one can see some glimmers of hope.
I think we can safely put to rest the claims by some that Bjelicia is the source of defensive problems on this team. I also think people need to realize Luke is likely being told to start Bagley and Buddy to determine definitively are they starting caliber players in this league. For Buddy the answer is clearly no. For Bagley, we shall see if he keeps improving.
sactowndog
All-Star
Vlade hated Joeger because he was an butthead. Joeger hated Vlade because he was an idiot. That relationship had no chance of lasting.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Like me and others have said, there is a philosophy/identity issue. Kings need to focus on a being a perimeter defensive team or an interior defensive team. Holmes is very efficient and fun to watch, but Walton's determination to award him with as much playing time as he gets means they are playing small in the middle and need to be a perimeter defensive team. Which also requires that he ask Fox to put his max effort on defense rather than trying to be the offensive spark. Then the offense comes from Barnes, Buddy and from pick and rolls with the big men.
If Fox is going to be the offensive focul point, then Whiteside should be in the middle to stop those straight line drives that guards are getting on the regular. I'm not pulling Bagley because he's shooting 36% from 3. Higher if you take away the first few games when he was 0-7 and was lost on the perimeter, so he's at least keeping some spacing for Fox.
If Fox is going to be the offensive focul point, then Whiteside should be in the middle to stop those straight line drives that guards are getting on the regular. I'm not pulling Bagley because he's shooting 36% from 3. Higher if you take away the first few games when he was 0-7 and was lost on the perimeter, so he's at least keeping some spacing for Fox.
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gunks
Hall of Famer
I don’t think it’s the firing so much as the hiring that’s the problem.
We’ve had a lot of real stinkers as HC over the last 15 years.
Malone was the only “common era” firing that was a mistake. As previously mentioned, Joerger basically canned himself by being a ****. RA firing (or was it a failure to re-sign? I forget) is ancient Magoofian history.
Luke is a horrible coach. The fact that Vlade was gah gah over him should tell you everything you need to know.
We need a more inspirational tank commander, I’m down with Gentry. The kids will have more fun on offense at least, and giving up 120 a game will be more palatable if we score 115.
KainLear
Starter
The firing of a coach in a losing team is forever going to be the go-to move for any professional sports team, ever. Even if it is the players' fault, changing of a coach will always be the first thing anyone, from within or outside of an organization, will do simply because it is the part of the design for them to be the scapegoats in situations where your team doesn't win unless said coach has a lot of pedigree with your team (think Popovich) or at least he and the GM/ownership/players have had a previous agreement about having to lose now to win later.
They are thus by design the scapegoats because you didn't pay $160 million for him to win and it's always easier to see if that would just fix the problem before you tinker with your $160+ million investment.
I don't think this team would beat the team DJ coached two years ago. Despite a more experienced team (DJ loved to trot out 'young team' after every L). The team hasn't lost any key players bar WCS and Bogi and has added Holmes + Halliburton.
Luke's head coaching CV is lead by an acting stint with GS. But that wasn't his team. He didn't develop their offence, defence, their rotations. He wasn't challenged.
It's not entirely on Luke. The starting five has at least four guys who are more suited to offence than defence and need to play alongside good defensive guys. The fifth, Holmes, is more of an energy guy than a defensive playmaker. Some player movement could help, and a coaching change isn't going to fix all woes. But it wouldn't hurt.
Luke's head coaching CV is lead by an acting stint with GS. But that wasn't his team. He didn't develop their offence, defence, their rotations. He wasn't challenged.
It's not entirely on Luke. The starting five has at least four guys who are more suited to offence than defence and need to play alongside good defensive guys. The fifth, Holmes, is more of an energy guy than a defensive playmaker. Some player movement could help, and a coaching change isn't going to fix all woes. But it wouldn't hurt.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Taking a look at some stats.....
Last year our point differential as a team was -2.0 20th in the league
Right now were at -9.6 with only the Wolves worse. Consistently bad too on the road or home.
I'm trying to think of why that is. Personnel wise it isn't like we lost Rodman or Hakeem.
Here we are as a team defensively
Now I'm going to take a look at the bigs
Whiteside
Holmes
Bagley
The first thing noticeable is the points per shot attempts goes down significantly with Whiteside on the court, many would expect this, but the team gives up a staggering 11% less points with Whiteside on the floor than with Holmes or Bagley alone. Amazingly, you'd think teams would shoot more 3's with Whiteside on the court, as he protects the paint.....But that's not the case either, with him on the court the frequency of 3's are 7-8% less than Bagley or Holmes alone.
Now on to regular FG, notice how Whiteside has the highest percentage of FG frequency, but amazingly only a .94 points per shot!
Bagley is at 1.18 and Holmes 1.13
If I feel like it I may look at the guards next, maybe even see with pairs on the court.
But from this data, it sure looks like Walton is under using Whiteside for defensive purposes.
Last year our point differential as a team was -2.0 20th in the league
Right now were at -9.6 with only the Wolves worse. Consistently bad too on the road or home.
I'm trying to think of why that is. Personnel wise it isn't like we lost Rodman or Hakeem.
Here we are as a team defensively
Now I'm going to take a look at the bigs
Whiteside
Holmes
Bagley
The first thing noticeable is the points per shot attempts goes down significantly with Whiteside on the court, many would expect this, but the team gives up a staggering 11% less points with Whiteside on the floor than with Holmes or Bagley alone. Amazingly, you'd think teams would shoot more 3's with Whiteside on the court, as he protects the paint.....But that's not the case either, with him on the court the frequency of 3's are 7-8% less than Bagley or Holmes alone.
Now on to regular FG, notice how Whiteside has the highest percentage of FG frequency, but amazingly only a .94 points per shot!
Bagley is at 1.18 and Holmes 1.13
If I feel like it I may look at the guards next, maybe even see with pairs on the court.
But from this data, it sure looks like Walton is under using Whiteside for defensive purposes.
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Folsomkingsfan
Starter
This last sentence is really the reason why he should go. Oh, yes, don't get me wrong, having the worst defense in NBA history with a fairly talented defensive roster (WHITESIDE!), and a potentially elite defensive backcourst (Fox and Hali), is reason enough, but it's clear now that he was simply using this position as a springboard to another HC job... my guess is he wants the Clippers job. Won't happen anytime soon though. Poor Luke
Fire Walton.
Luke isn’t getting another head coaching job after this. At least not anytime soon. He’s been bad up to this point. Two semi talented teams and got nothing out of them.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And? That fresh start that they hoped would come with Vlade leaving never has a shot until the full sweep to that mess comes. That somewhat ends with Luke Walton. Anything else is pure incompetence.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
They RAN his GM out of town. This is common practice. When an ousted GM goes, so follows HIS coach. You left out Karl. Ring a bell? And lookie how that ended up lol.
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