Fire Paul Westphal

[mac]

So now that the guys have finally seemed to get it all together, do you think it's still wise to make a coaching change and shake things up all over again? Or should we try to at least have some more stability (although Westphal's rotations aren't very stable) for another season till Cousins has more experience under his belt and Tyreke is able to really lead the team despite having a new coach?

Personally I think Garcia's return will be a big factor in how I view Westphal. If Garcia comes back and Westphal goes back to benching Greene, playing Garcia at the 3 and our chemistry starts falling apart again then I'm going to say "screw you Westphal" and "vote" (as if I had any say in things) for a coaching change in the offseason. But if he can finally show that barring foul trouble he plays a fairly set rotation and finds a way to incorporate Garcia into whatever's been working for us, then I'm fine with giving him more time to see how the team progresses.

 

[D13]

The really big thing is Westphal has not lost the team... from what I've read and seen, everyone is definitely still behind him. More than a few great bb minds have publicly said PW is a great coach. No need to shake up things if we stay competitive like we have been. There's still gonna be a number of losses (esp with the upcoming sched). If we just stay competitive, and the team is still united, no reason to let PW go.

 

[pshn80]

Personally I think Garcia's return will be a big factor in how I view Westphal. If Garcia comes back and Westphal goes back to benching Greene, playing Garcia at the 3 and our chemistry starts falling apart again then I'm going to say "screw you Westphal" and "vote" (as if I had any say in things) for a coaching change in the offseason. But if he can finally show that barring foul trouble he plays a fairly set rotation and finds a way to incorporate Garcia into whatever's been working for us, then I'm fine with giving him more time to see how the team progresses.

I trust Westphal and whatever he chooses to do on Garcia's return is my choice. I think Westphal can see the pluses and minuses and make a good decision and then change if necessary. Coaching is rocket science and I'm not a scientist.

 

[Nighthawk1]

One of the biggest things PW had going against him in terms of coaching was his loose starting lineups and rotations. Things have tightened up considerably compared to what we're used to seeing which is why I feel we've seen an increased competitiveness. He still may feel the need to tweak the lineup in the future but at least now I don't think he'll be doing it just out of randomness - but actual performance on the court. Let's hope he can keep it up so we can knit pick at other things...

 

[bajaden]

I have to disagree with my friend pushing 80. Coaching is not rocket science. At least not in its basic philosphy. If your a head coach and your having trouble figuring out what to do in general, there are plenty of blueprints around the league with which to model yourself after. They may all be a little different when you peel back the outside layer, but on the surface they all resemble one another. Now I'm not going to go through another mantra of my differences with Westphal. Been there and done that. His mistakes are obvious to anyone thats watched professional basketball for more than a couple of years.

So let me just say this. I'm a guy that likes a bumpy free ride when I fly. As we all know, there are no guarantees of that happening. There are weather systems etc, that can cause the acid to start forming in one's stomach. But if my pilot gets me to my destination safely and in one piece, I'm a happy man!

There are leaders in life that know instinctively where there going, and how to get there. Put them behind the wheel of a bus and they'll drive directly there. There are others that will eventually arrive at their destination. But along the way they'll be backing out of a lot of dead end streets. They're like the husbands that refuse to stop and ask for directions. The trick is to get there before you get fired.

Please! No more dead end streets Paul.

 

[Superman]

I still don't think Westphal is THE GUY, and never did, but if there's anything the last nine games have shown us (4-5, losing by an average of 4.4 points, four of those losses and two wins on the road), it's that there's a difference from one loss to the next, and a little stability can mean the difference between looking like the worst team in the NBA and actually being competitive. Had we been playing the majority of the season the way we've played over the last two weeks, this thread wouldn't be 18 pages long.

This team is certainly not as bad as the record indicates. We've been underachieving all season long. Part of that is Reke's injuries, and other players not producing quite as we expected them to. But aside from injury concerns, the wacky rotations have been the biggest detriment.

 

[pshn80]

His mistakes are obvious to anyone thats watched professional basketball for more than a couple of years.

With no disrespect intended I really disagree with your statement. I'm not the student of the game as you are, but my fanhood credentials beat a couple of years. All in Sacramento and starting before the Warriors won it all - I was on the radio and enjoying the hell out of seeing my team do well for a change. And I've paid dearly (in cash) for 26 years of season tickethood. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the "couple of years" business is wrong because it is not obvious to me and I have had this site's help in the last season and a half.

 

[ParniValjak]

Funny thing is, if you go over to a Rocket forum, they've got the same "fire the coach (Adelman)" threads we got going here. Grass is always greener somehow... right now many Houston fans would love to give him to us.

The thing is, we know what Rick brings to the table. We have seen it for year here. He is a great coach and I have always claimed the biggest mistake we have made in the last 5-6 years is letting him go. He is clearly a very good coach that gets the absolute best out of the talent he has.

Just look at the rockets last year, no one gave them any hope in hell to be as competative as they were.

They expect him to win by giving him a roster that has no superstar to build around. What he has in Houston now is the same failed attempt at a "team play" that we had with Peja - Bibby - Miller!

No disrespect to coach Westphal but Adelman is miles better and will probably be a hall of fame coach, especially if he ends up winning a championship

 

[Glenn]

I attribute little of what is happening to Westphal. The players like him as a person and I suspect are scratching their heads at his strategies, whatever they may be. There have been enough grumblings to back this up.

We are forunate to have the group of guys that we have. We traded and got a guy who was supposed to be an end of the game "go to guy" when we got Landry. He has been shuttled to the back of the bus by Reke and Cousins. These guys are winners and want the weight of the team on their shoulders. Any coach would be fortunate to have a team with the mental state of this team. I think PW is lucky and not good. He entered Sacto at a good time.

 

[ESP47]

It's funny how our complaints have gone completely from one side to the other when it comes to our coaches. Everyone used to complain that Musselman and Theus/Natt wouldn't develop the younger guys because they were trying to win and keep their jobs. Now we have Westphal who plays everyone and now we want him to scale it back. I agree that the answer is somewhere in the middle but he's not nearly as bad as Theus and Musselman. If those guys were coaching, Cousins would be playing 16min a game, Pooh and Greene would never touch the floor and Head would be playing about 20min a game.

 

[bajaden]

With no disrespect intended I really disagree with your statement. I'm not the student of the game as you are, but my fanhood credentials beat a couple of years. All in Sacramento and starting before the Warriors won it all - I was on the radio and enjoying the hell out of seeing my team do well for a change. And I've paid dearly (in cash) for 26 years of season tickethood. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the "couple of years" business is wrong because it is not obvious to me and I have had this site's help in the last season and a half.

Well, you've put me in a difficult situation here. I like you and I respect you, and, you wern't the intended subject of that line. However, since I was responding to your post, I can see where you would take offense to it. It was a throw away line, as they say, and a generalization. However, if it offended you, I apologize. No malice intended, just thoughtless at the time.

As I've said before, I have no dog in this hunt. If Westphal can turn things around, and make this team competitive, I'm a happy man. But if I think he's doing stupid things with his starting lineup changes and rotations. I'm going to say so. Its not personal. I have favorite players on the team like everyone else. And I'll criticize them if I believe they're not playing up to their potential. But I'm a lot more tolerant of the players than I'am the coach. The coach is suspossed to know better. He's the captain of the ship. A players bad decisions can cause you to lose a game. A coaches bad decisions can cause you to lose an entire season. Its not suspossed to be a learning process for the coach. He's suspossed to be the teacher, not the student.

I have coaches that I really admire. I've read books by current NBA and college coaches. That doesn't make me an expert, but it gives me insight into the minds of people that are. I admit that almost all these people I'm referring to are great coaches. So maybe I'm holding Westphal to too high a standard. Maybe I've been blinded by my own visions of what I want our coach to be, and he's actually doing a stellar job. Maybe your right, and I'm wrong. I hope so, because in the end, I don't give a tinkers damm about Westphal, or being right. I only care about the success of the team.

 

[bajaden]

It's funny how our complaints have gone completely from one side to the other when it comes to our coaches. Everyone used to complain that Musselman and Theus/Natt wouldn't develop the younger guys because they were trying to win and keep their jobs. Now we have Westphal who plays everyone and now we want him to scale it back. I agree that the answer is somewhere in the middle but he's not nearly as bad as Theus and Musselman. If those guys were coaching, Cousins would be playing 16min a game, Pooh and Greene would never touch the floor and Head would be playing about 20min a game.

I know where your going with this, but I hardly think you want to use Musselhead, Theus and Natt as a backdrop to show Westphal as a good coach. Thats sort of like saying that Stalin was a good leader when compared to Hitler. And Please, I'm not comparing Westphal to Stalin or Hitler. They were both real bad guys and Westphal is a very nice man. Its called a metaphor. I can only deal with my complaints about Westphal, and they have little to do with playing the young guys and have a lot to do with the role of the players on the team.

I think its important for all the players to know what their role is, and when, and how long on a regular basis their going to play. A player likes to know if he's part of the rotation or not. when he'll probably be going into the game and for how long. Yes I know, it can fluctuate from game to game depending on the matchups and how well a player is playing. Now I know that its the coaches descretion. He can damm well do whatever he wants. But if you want a team that plays consistent basketball, then I would go with the tried and true system that imploys a set rotation of 8 or 9 players. And once you set that rotation, you stick with it, barring injuries, as long as you can.

That doesn't mean you can adjust from time to time for matchups, or when a player might usually come into a game. But for the most part you stick with the same starting five, and the same guys coming off the bench. That makes for a happy team. Except for the guys that don't get to play. But if you've done your job properly as a head coach, the most talented guys are going to be the one's getting floor time.

To Westphal's credit, he's starting to do that. To his discredit, it took him way too long. Of course thats just my opinion. And none of this has anything to do with his in game decisions, which at times totally befuddle me. But thats another story. And by the way, I had no problem with him inserting Luther Head into the game the other night. I mean, who the hell else was he going to put in when Tyreke was in foul trouble. He had no Cisco, so he was left with either Head or Taylor. I can't blame him for going with the more experienced player. Especially one that known for his defense.

 

[Kingster]

I know where your going with this, but I hardly think you want to use Musselhead, Theus and Natt as a backdrop to show Westphal as a good coach. Thats sort of like saying that Stalin was a good leader when compared to Hitler. And Please, I'm not comparing Westphal to Stalin or Hitler. They were both real bad guys and Westphal is a very nice man. Its called a metaphor. I can only deal with my complaints about Westphal, and they have little to do with playing the young guys and have a lot to do with the role of the players on the team.

I think its important for all the players to know what their role is, and when, and how long on a regular basis their going to play. A player likes to know if he's part of the rotation or not. when he'll probably be going into the game and for how long. Yes I know, it can fluctuate from game to game depending on the matchups and how well a player is playing. Now I know that its the coaches descretion. He can damm well do whatever he wants. But if you want a team that plays consistent basketball, then I would go with the tried and true system that imploys a set rotation of 8 or 9 players. And once you set that rotation, you stick with it, barring injuries, as long as you can.

That doesn't mean you can adjust from time to time for matchups, or when a player might usually come into a game. But for the most part you stick with the same starting five, and the same guys coming off the bench. That makes for a happy team. Except for the guys that don't get to play. But if you've done your job properly as a head coach, the most talented guys are going to be the one's getting floor time.

To Westphal's credit, he's starting to do that. To his discredit, it took him way too long. Of course thats just my opinion. And none of this has anything to do with his in game decisions, which at times totally befuddle me. But thats another story. And by the way, I had no problem with him inserting Luther Head into the game the other night. I mean, who the hell else was he going to put in when Tyreke was in foul trouble. He had no Cisco, so he was left with either Head or Taylor. I can't blame him for going with the more experienced player. Especially one that known for his defense.

The tried and true set rotation thing is fine for veterans who know how to spell defense and know what it means to be in NBA shape and know what it's like to actually prepare for games. Not for a young team that needs to have their strings pulled (in many cases yanked) initially to get them to pay attention. You can say that this team would have been better earlier if Westphal would have just set the lineup earlier, but that line of thinking totally ignores what the benefits have been by not having such a static lineup. If a lineup had been set from the get-go would there have been a sense of entitlement by the younger players? Absolutely, in my view. It would have bred complacency. The only lever that Westphal has is playing time. Take that away and he's got zip to induce these guys to play the right way. Now that Westphal has used his disciplinarian card to the max, he's backing off. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have been the disciplarian from the outset.

 

[Superman]

The tried and true set rotation thing is fine for veterans who know how to spell defense and know what it means to be in NBA shape and know what it's like to actually prepare for games. Not for a young team that needs to have their strings pulled (in many cases yanked) initially to get them to pay attention. You can say that this team would have been better earlier if Westphal would have just set the lineup earlier, but that line of thinking totally ignores what the benefits have been by not having such a static lineup. If a lineup had been set from the get-go would there have been a sense of entitlement by the younger players? Absolutely, in my view. It would have bred complacency. The only lever that Westphal has is playing time. Take that away and he's got zip to induce these guys to play the right way. Now that Westphal has used his disciplinarian card to the max, he's backing off. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have been the disciplarian from the outset.

Okay, but willy-nilly, "I'm starting a different lineup every other night" decisions, random rotations, etc., is not the way to get players to give maximum effort. And on top of that, the problem at the beginning of the season was not solely effort. In the case of Tyreke and Donte, it was mostly conditioning. And in that case, Reke gets the long rope, but Donte gets tied to the bench with that same rope. What kind of signal is that sending?

There's no defending Westphal's rotations earlier on this season. They were damaging to the team. If you have a player who is showing over the course of a number of games that he's not putting forth effort, or he's not following the gameplan, or whatever, then you pull him and make him pay the price, while other players get a chance to show what they can do. But there was no telling what was going to happen, who was going to start, who was going to play, etc. Sometimes, a player would go from starter to DNP-CD in one night (mostly Donte). I can understand starter to bench player, but starter to out of the rotation entirely? No excuse.

And that's really my only complaint with Westphal. Never thought he was going to be the coach of the future, but I at least expected him to set a rotation and give the players a chance to develop some consistency. In fact, it's the main reason I was convinced we should keep him for the entire season. Let the guys play, get a feel for who is good at what, what units work well together, what situations a player excels in and what situations he struggles with, etc. But you can't do that when you're starting a different unit every night. It's impossible. I feel like we wasted the first third of the season.

 

[ParniValjak]

The tried and true set rotation thing is fine for veterans who know how to spell defense and know what it means to be in NBA shape and know what it's like to actually prepare for games. Not for a young team that needs to have their strings pulled (in many cases yanked) initially to get them to pay attention. You can say that this team would have been better earlier if Westphal would have just set the lineup earlier, but that line of thinking totally ignores what the benefits have been by not having such a static lineup. If a lineup had been set from the get-go would there have been a sense of entitlement by the younger players? Absolutely, in my view. It would have bred complacency. The only lever that Westphal has is playing time. Take that away and he's got zip to induce these guys to play the right way. Now that Westphal has used his disciplinarian card to the max, he's backing off. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have been the disciplarian from the outset.

And there is the extreme cases that are consistent in Westphal's rotations. One night you will start, then the next you will get relegated to 12th man and get a bunch of DNP-CDs and then all of a sudden you are back in the starting line up.

What young players need is a consistent message and guidance. They need someone that teaches them and tells them right where they stand and what is expected of them. Players need to know their roles to actually settle down and grow as players, especially young, inexperienced players. Westphal does the opposite and for 2 years in a row he has been called out by his players for not having defined roles. That creates confusion and uncertainty amongst the playing group which reflects into crappy play.

And its not only the youngsters that have called Westphal out about this, its also the veterans on the team. That on itself speaks volumes.

 

[mac]

I know where your going with this, but I hardly think you want to use Musselhead, Theus and Natt as a backdrop to show Westphal as a good coach. Thats sort of like saying that Stalin was a good leader when compared to Hitler. And Please, I'm not comparing Westphal to Stalin or Hitler. They were both real bad guys and Westphal is a very nice man. Its called a metaphor. I can only deal with my complaints about Westphal, and they have little to do with playing the young guys and have a lot to do with the role of the players on the team.

Stalin and Hitler were actually pretty good leaders though ... in the sense that they got the job done. They were just messed up people.

 

[hrdboild]

Stalin and Hitler were actually pretty good leaders though ... in the sense that they got the job done. They were just messed up people.

Yeah but I think it could be argued that neither one actually got the job done. Not in the longterm anyway.

 

[jon e]

after tonites game, this thread needs to make an appearance. just as i was gaining faith with westphal... lets roll with pooh reke donte darnell and sammy against the spurs. also tell demarcus to make jump shots. everyone knows he can hit them... MAN that game was terrible

 

[Kings Faithful]

Stalin and Hitler were actually pretty good leaders though ... in the sense that they got the job done. They were just messed up people.

Yeah, if were talking metaphors, i wish Westphal was the Stalin or Hitler of the NBA...

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, if were talking metaphors, i wish Westphal was the Stalin or Hitler of the NBA...

How about Chamberlain? And I don't mean Wilt!

 

[gunks]

after tonites game, this thread needs to make an appearance. just as i was gaining faith with westphal... lets roll with pooh reke donte darnell and sammy against the spurs. also tell demarcus to make jump shots. everyone knows he can hit them... MAN that game was terrible

DMC had been hitting them. And he would have gotten blocked a million times in the post by Timmy if he tried to go inside.

I'm not really surprised we lost that one, I mean the Spurs are 42-8. Thats just nasty. But like pretty much everyone else here I was disappointed in that we didnt even really compete that game. Ah well, our 2 game streak against the Lakers and Hornets spoiled us

There were some strange lineups in that game. And it was pretty headscratching that Westphal trotted out a garbage time lineup early in the 4th but then put Reke/DMC back out there when we had absolutely no chance of coming back (not that we ever did). But it wouldnt be Westphal without iffy lineups!

I still think we're coming together. And its a big plus that he hasnt lost the team yet.

Early in the season I had ranked Westphal (On a scale of 1-10, 1 being Natt, 10 being Pops) a 3. Right now I think he's an unspectacular 5! We definately need a solid 7 (Rick territory) to be a condender in the future, but I'm not in panic mode anymore regarding coaching.

 

[nickmcclure]

Ahem...the last play of the Kings/OKC game...good call coachie.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................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[mr. moustache]

It was 1" off. Great call actually.

Ahem...the last play of the Kings/OKC game...good call 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[Uncia03]

I was fine with the shot to win it. Tyreke had the open look and I thought it might be good as it was on-line, just a little bit short.
If anything, I wish Westphal had gone to Donte far more through-out the game to try and keep Durant in check. Durant crushed Casspi, getting whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
Donte can't shut Durant down, but he makes him work far harder to get his points.

 

[Tetsujin]

I was fine with the shot to win it. Tyreke had the open look and I thought it might be good as it was on-line, just a little bit short.
If anything, I wish Westphal had gone to Donte far more through-out the game to try and keep Durant in check. Durant crushed Casspi, getting whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
Donte can't shut Durant down, but he makes him work far harder to get his points.

This indeed. Donte at least is the same size as Durant and has proven to have the capabilities of pestering elite scorers in the past.

 

[steelevt]

Ahem...the last play of the Kings/OKC game...good call coachie.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................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1 inch and you wouldnt have even posted this. i, along with others were fine with the shot. watched the postgame interview and he described the play where beno and casspi went to the corners and cousins set a screen and it was donte's choice. he said a 2 would be great but a 3 was fine. i'm happy we got a shot off and tyreke learned not to drive into a crowd of defenders hoping to get bailed out.

 

[nickmcclure]

No you guys are right, let's draw up a play with plenty of time left on the clock that ends in a .289% 3 point shooter to go for the win.

 

[gunks]

You know, I'd been warming to Westphal....But now with Cousins getting suspended I wonder.

Did DMC's complaints have merit?

If Westphal really does let Reke do whatever the **** he wants to on the court, then he needs to be fired yesterday. Reke not being held accountable for his wannabe heroics, is bad stuff. Thats how you develop your potential laden youngster into a stat padding borderline allstar instead of a borderline HOFer.

Reke needs coaching, not free reign to do whatever he wants on the court.

 

[captain bill]

You know, I'd been warming to Westphal....But now with Cousins getting suspended I wonder.

Did DMC's complaints have merit?

If Westphal really does let Reke do whatever the **** he wants to on the court, then he needs to be fired yesterday. Reke not being held accountable for his wannabe heroics, is bad stuff. Thats how you develop your potential laden youngster into a stat padding borderline allstar instead of a borderline HOFer.

Reke needs coaching, not free reign to do whatever he wants on the court.

DMC is going of the deep end right now. Whether his criticisms were accurate is irrelevant- right now, his behavior and insubordination cannot be tolerated or he will never build a great team. If anything, this incident should mean that Westphal's job becomes safe, because firing him would tell Cousins that he can do **** like this and get away with it.

 

[Section 101]

DMC is going of the deep end right now. Whether his criticisms were accurate is irrelevant- right now, his behavior and insubordination cannot be tolerated or he will never build a great team. If anything, this incident should mean that Westphal's job becomes safe, because firing him would tell Cousins that he can do **** like this and get away with it.

Uh, this has been going since last year with Westfail giving Evans free reign. Both Hawes and Noc said the same thing. Now it's Cuz. See a trend yet?