FIRE MIKE BROWN

[sono]

I'm not an expert, but the eye test tells me watching the games vs our tough opponents we are no match against a gritty defense and a lengthy roster. No matter how we shuffle and brainstorm, simply both MB and the roster exhausted any available resources. Characteristic unusual rotations in the last two quarters as last ditch effort and the 6-0 / Pels-Kings this season speak for themselves. They maxed out their full potential. We could easily single out a player or two or even three to blame, but usually, the failures occur as a result of a mix of errors and a chain of events or mostly how is it built/designed.

Never seen the West so tough and competitive, even with a 46/36 record the Warriors listed in 10th in the regular season standings. And I blame Monte who with all his experts and advisors by his side had done nothing seeing how the West is being shaped this season. Meantime our window of opportunity is closing while we still have some juice in both Domas and Fox.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I'm not an expert, but the eye test tells me watching the games vs our tough opponents we are no match against a gritty defense and a lengthy roster. No matter how we shuffle and brainstorm, simply both MB and the roster exhausted any available resources. Characteristic unusual rotations in the last two quarters as last ditch effort and the 6-0 / Pels-Kings this season speak for themselves. They maxed out their full potential. We could easily single out a player or two or even three to blame, but usually, the failures occur as a result of a mix of errors and a chain of events or mostly how is it built/designed.

Never seen the West so tough and competitive, even with a 46/36 record the Warriors listed in 10th in the regular season standings. And I blame Monte who with all his experts and advisors by his side had done nothing seeing how the West is being shaped this season. Meantime our window of opportunity is closing while we still have some juice in both Domas and Fox.

How is our window closing? Fox and Sabonis are in their twenties. Each probably have 4 or so years of prime left.

 

[Tetsujin]

How is our window closing? Fox and Sabonis are in their twenties. Each probably have 4 or so years of prime left.

2/5 of our starting lineup are still on rookie deals lol

 

[SacTownKid]

2/5 of our starting lineup are still on rookie deals lol

Yep, truly the window hasn't even opened yet. Those rookie deals only have 2 years to go though and once your cap flexibility is up, it's up. It's already up, but having highly valuable low paid players in your starting lineup is an opportunity to make the most of now, not later. And we know what things look like from later. Tinkering and possibly lateral moves. Monte has a nice assortment of matchable salaries on his cap sheet and that has to be what he intended. Now he's got to get to work and finish this thing off.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yep, truly the window hasn't even opened yet. Those rookie deals only have 2 years to go though and once your cap flexibility is up, it's up. It's already up, but having highly valuable low paid players in your starting lineup is an opportunity to make the most of now, not later. And we know what things look like from later. Tinkering and possibly lateral moves. Monte has a nice assortment of matchable salaries on his cap sheet and that has to be what he intended. Now he's got to get to work and finish this thing off.

The good news for Monte is that if today’s opening collection of playoff games is any indication there are probably going to be quite a few teams looking to move pieces/have fire sales this offseason and not really enough buyers on the market

 

[Elektrik]

Thank you Mike Brown for changing the culture, but it's time to move on from the Mike Brown experiment.

I'd rather have Doug Christie coaching this team next year than Mike Brown.

Name your replacement.

I’d say this is very premature. Mike Brown has taken a crappy team and turned them into a potential and perennial playoff team. If we are placing blame here, I’d say you have to look first and foremost at Monty McNair and his “run it back” policy. Clearly this failed miserably because virtually every team in the west got better. When you run it back, expect to get the same result which is basically what had happened. The Kings were short by two games compared to last year. From my perspective, Monty miscalculated the talent and heart of this team.

Then you have to take a look at the players and how they collapsed at the end and in no small part do the fact that Kevin Huerter was out for the rest of the season with his injury and sixth man of the year candidate, Malik Monk, was out also during crunch time from his ankle sprain. It’s hard to blame the coach when two of your six key pieces go down.

However, all through the season the Kings players failed to step up and win games that they should have. Now you might say that’s the coaching and perhaps it is to some degree, but I have to place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the players as much as anyone. They are the ones that have to get it done. They didn’t take on the challenge. This is still a very young team and are still learning what it takes to get to the next level. There certainly is room for improvement and I certainly expect to see some at all levels.

As far as Doug Christie is concerned, I loved him as a player but at this point in his coaching career, what has he done that he deserves to be the head coach over last years coach of the year Mike Brown?

The Kings organization needs to commit to winning at the next level and every employee within the organization needs to improve. From player skill level, negotiating player contracts, and motivating players. EVERYONE has to recommit and get better, faster stronger and smarter.

 

[luckytkp]

He also didn't require 1 hr of FT shooting practice a day until it was fixed.

By your logic - nothing could ever be Brown's fault.

I expect nba level players would be able to figure it out by themselves on FT and not requiring coaches to tell them.

 

[sono]

How is our window closing? Fox and Sabonis are in their twenties. Each probably have 4 or so years of prime left.

To get the right pieces and gel might take a season or two. Then running for the title hoping for the best avoiding nagging injury is another thing.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I expect nba level players would be able to figure it out by themselves on FT and not requiring coaches to tell them.

You might assume that's the case,....but it is not. We see lots of great players and even generally good shooters who continue to struggle at the line

 

[sactowndog]

Thank you Mike Brown for changing the culture, but it's time to move on from the Mike Brown experiment.

I'd rather have Doug Christie coaching this team next year than Mike Brown.

Name your replacement.

so my biggest complaint against Mike is he didn’t try something different. Primarily Kessler who the last time he got minutes was perfect from 3 and his shooting +40% on low volume C&S threes.

However it is possible Monte told Mike not to play Kessler because he is a restricted free agent we would like to sign on a cheaper contract. Dante and his agent accused the Kings of doing exactly that. Beyond Kessler we really don’t have any longer option to play.

 

[Geoff]

Thank you Mike Brown for changing the culture, but it's time to move on from the Mike Brown experiment.

I'd rather have Doug Christie coaching this team next year than Mike Brown.

Name your replacement.

This is an exceedingly hot take, and I am disappointed to see it.

 

[notoriousBEN3]

Y’all are crazy. Remember the coaching carousel we were on for years before Brown came in and took the team to the playoffs for the first time in many years? Do you really want to go through that again?!

He has his flaws as a coach, but so does basically every other coach.

I’m bummed we didn’t make the playoffs, but it’s not like the team went from top tier to bottom feeder in one season. Give the man some additional weapons and see what he can do. If anything, I’m more upset with Monty for not improving the roster than I am with Brown.

The grass is not always greener…

 

[Geoff]

I kind of see Mike Brown as the guy who gets us back to the playoffs (consistently), maybe gets us to be a 2nd round/WCF team (consistently), but who will ultimately need to be let go to bring in someone else who will be able to get us over that final hurdle, and hopefully contend for a championship.

Even if that were true, now is not the time to let go.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Even if that were true, now is not the time to let go.

Agreed...Which is why I specifically made it a point to add the word "consistently" throughout my comment...Now is not the time.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

so my biggest complaint against Mike is he didn’t try something different. Primarily Kessler who the last time he got minutes was perfect from 3 and his shooting +40% on low volume C&S threes.

I don't get this. Playing our actual NBA players against the Pelicans hasn't worked so far, so let's play our fringe NBA players instead? There's a reason that Kessler doesn't get rotation minutes.

However it is possible Monte told Mike not to play Kessler because he is a restricted free agent we would like to sign on a cheaper contract. Dante and his agent accused the Kings of doing exactly that.

And that's not the reason. Donté Greene may have accused us of doing that (way back in the Petrie era!), but it was obviously not the case. Not only did *we* not sign him to a cheaper RFA deal when his rookie deal was up, *nobody* signed him to *any* deal. He never set foot on an NBA court again. The reason he wasn't getting the playing time he thought he deserved wasn't because of some 4-D Front Office Chess, it was because he wasn't good Edit: Wrong "Donté"

You've got this fixation on length, length, length when it's really a secondary thing. All things being equal, more length is better. But being good at basketball trumps length every day of the week.

 

[Section 101]

I don't get this. Playing our actual NBA players against the Pelicans hasn't worked so far, so let's play our fringe NBA players instead? There's a reason that Kessler doesn't get rotation minutes.



And that's not the reason. Donté Greene may have accused us of doing that (way back in the Petrie era!), but it was obviously not the case. Not only did *we* not sign him to a cheaper RFA deal when his rookie deal was up, *nobody* signed him to *any* deal. He never set foot on an NBA court again. The reason he wasn't getting the playing time he thought he deserved wasn't because of some 4-D Front Office Chess, it was because he wasn't good.

You've got this fixation on length, length, length when it's really a secondary thing. All things being equal, more length is better. But being good at basketball trumps length every day of the week.

Uh wrong guy, the one that just had a great season in NY after playing with the Warriors last year.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Uh wrong guy, the one that just had a great season in NY after playing with the Warriors last year.

Doh! Well, never mind on the second half of that one!

 

[Tetsujin]

Uh wrong guy, the one that just had a great season in NY after playing with the Warriors last year.

DDV was coming off of a bad foot injury and certainly didn’t seem to ingrain himself into the fabric of either the Kings or Warriors in his time with both teams.
Plus DDV’s longterm goal was apparently always to try to get together with his Nova squad so I don’t think it really matters either way.

 

[sactowndog]

I don't get this. Playing our actual NBA players against the Pelicans hasn't worked so far, so let's play our fringe NBA players instead? There's a reason that Kessler doesn't get rotation minutes.



And that's not the reason. Donté Greene may have accused us of doing that (way back in the Petrie era!), but it was obviously not the case. Not only did *we* not sign him to a cheaper RFA deal when his rookie deal was up, *nobody* signed him to *any* deal. He never set foot on an NBA court again. The reason he wasn't getting the playing time he thought he deserved wasn't because of some 4-D Front Office Chess, it was because he wasn't good Edit: Wrong "Donté"

You've got this fixation on length, length, length when it's really a secondary thing. All things being equal, more length is better. But being good at basketball trumps length every day of the week.

I think our 0-6 record shows why give up 4” on average from the 2-5 spots is a huge problem. Kessler would have been better than Barnes in this match-up and could hardly been worse

0-6 against the Pels, 0-3 against the Rockets, struggled against San Antonio. Not sure how anyone could need more evidence our lack of length across the front court is a huge issue.

 

[ockingsfan]

I think our 0-6 record shows why give up 4” on average from the 2-5 spots is a huge problem. Kessler would have been better than Barnes in this match-up and could hardly been worse

0-6 against the Pels, 0-3 against the Rockets, struggled against San Antonio. Not sure how anyone could need more evidence our lack of length across the front court is a huge issue.

Agreed. If there is one thing we know about Kessler is that he is good at defense and he has size. Since we were getting smoked all year by NO longer wings, it would had made sense for MB to give him a shot to try and stop their wings. Nothing else worked, as shown by the Kings 0-6 record vs NO all year.

It’s as though the Kings thought let’s run the same rotation and game plan minus Monk and Huerter and expect a different outcome than the 5 losses we endured during the year to the Pels. Kessler would had been the only potential wild card we could had tried to change the tide.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I expect nba level players would be able to figure it out by themselves on FT and not requiring coaches to tell them.

Your opinion is directly contradicted by reality.

 

[sactowndog]

I don't get this. Playing our actual NBA players against the Pelicans hasn't worked so far, so let's play our fringe NBA players instead? There's a reason that Kessler doesn't get rotation minutes.



And that's not the reason. Donté Greene may have accused us of doing that (way back in the Petrie era!), but it was obviously not the case. Not only did *we* not sign him to a cheaper RFA deal when his rookie deal was up, *nobody* signed him to *any* deal. He never set foot on an NBA court again. The reason he wasn't getting the playing time he thought he deserved wasn't because of some 4-D Front Office Chess, it was because he wasn't good Edit: Wrong "Donté"

You've got this fixation on length, length, length when it's really a secondary thing. All things being equal, more length is better. But being good at basketball trumps length every day of the week.

just a follow up on this response that perhaps is a better articulation of my position.

1) you know you have a length problem on your front line with both Domas and Barnes. If going winless 5 times against New Orleans and 3 against Houston doesn’t drive that point home then you are too dense to coach.

2) you believe Kessler doesn’t have the needed skill set to compete.

point 1 is an absolute fact. Point 2 is a belief they may be 80% likely to be true but it still gives you 20% chance of success. Last I checked 20% > 0%.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think our 0-6 record shows why give up 4” on average from the 2-5 spots is a huge problem. Kessler would have been better than Barnes in this match-up and could hardly been worse

0-6 against the Pels, 0-3 against the Rockets, struggled against San Antonio. Not sure how anyone could need more evidence our lack of length across the front court is a huge issue.

So explain 17-11 vs the top 7 west teams? None of them have quality length?

If this is as big an issue as you say, there's no shot we pull out that record vs the top 7.

I absolutely agree we need more wings. I've been right there for years fighting with you about the importance of wings. I think there's just more nuance needed than "our arms are short, so we bad" type analysis

 

[sactowndog]

So explain 17-11 vs the top 7 west teams? None of them have quality length?

If this is as big an issue as you say, there's no shot we pull out that record vs the top 7.

I absolutely agree we need more wings. I've been right there for years fighting with you about the importance of wings. I think there's just more nuance needed than "our arms are short, so we bad" type analysis

I’m not going to look up every team average standing reach. I did ask someone who was in the NBA and he said it was about

8’ 4 2 guard
8’ 7 Small forward
8’ 10 Power forward
9’ 1’ Center

not sure it’s exactly right but you can see the Pels are much longer than average

Murphy 8’9.5. 7’ 0.0”
Jones. 8’10”. 7’ 0.25”
Ingram. 9’1”. 7’ 3”
Valancinious 9’3”. 7’4”

And yes having a center Sabonis can or can’t bully also makes a big difference in how we do. But that point we can’t control. We can get Longer.

 

[The_Jamal]

I’m not going to look up every team average standing reach. I did ask someone who was in the NBA and he said it was about

8’ 4 2 guard
8’ 7 Small forward
8’ 10 Power forward
9’ 1’ Center

not sure it’s exactly right but you can see the Pels are much longer than average

Murphy 8’9.5. 7’ 0.0”
Jones. 8’10”. 7’ 0.25”
Ingram. 9’1”. 7’ 3”
Valancinious 9’3”. 7’4”

And yes having a center Sabonis can or can’t bully also makes a big difference in how we do. But that point we can’t control. We can get Longer.

Ok, but you didn't answer the question.

We've fully established we got punked by the Pels. But we also established we played damn good basketball vs the 7 best teams in the West. If length was as big an issue as you're making it, we would not have played that well in a 28 game sample vs quality competition.

So I'll ask again: If length is the prevailing issue with this org, as you're making it, how did we just go 17-11 vs the top 7 teams in the West?

 

[sactowndog]

Ok, but you didn't answer the question.

We've fully established we got punked by the Pels. But we also established we played damn good basketball vs the 7 best teams in the West. If length was as big an issue as you're making it, we would not have played that well in a 28 game sample vs quality competition.

So I'll ask again: If length is the prevailing issue with this org, as you're making it, how did we just go 17-11 vs the top 7 teams in the West?

you are assuming every top ranked team is extremely long 2-5 (and has a center Domas can’t bully). So do just a little bit of Fing work and you look up a team we have beat regularly and document how they are above average from 2-5 and while your at it ….. also don’t have a soft center like the T Pups. I actually post data with my opinions.

Why don’t you try it!

 

[The_Jamal]

you are assuming every top ranked team is extremely long 2-5 (and has a center Domas can’t bully). So do just a little bit of Fing work and you look up a team we have beat regularly and document how they are above average from 2-5 and while your at it ….. also don’t have a soft center like the T Pups. I actually post data with my opinions.

Why don’t you try it!

LOL.

You dont post crap. Your data is looking up wingspan and you thinking your former nba Exec buddy gives you some level of authority. Hard hitting stuff.

I've posted here long enough that everyone knows I back my opinions up with data. I don't have to prove crap to you, and nor do I feel the need to prove anything to someone who's not interested in seeing another viewpoint or not joining a debate in good faith.

I came up with the literal easiest counter to your argument and you can't defend your position because your point is weak so you try attacking my analysis. It's weak and something I'd expect from a few other former and current posters on this board, but hey guess we're here now with you too. Sad.

I didn't assume anything, you did. I asked you if length is so important, how did we play so well vs the 7 best teams in the West? And your response is to lose your damn mind and act like I'm the one supposed to qualify your point? Nah, that's on you bud.

 

[sactowndog]

LOL.

You dont post crap. Your data is looking up wingspan and you thinking your former nba Exec buddy gives you some level of authority. Hard hitting stuff.

I've posted here long enough that everyone knows I back my opinions up with data. I don't have to prove crap to you, and nor do I feel the need to prove anything to someone who's not interested in seeing another viewpoint or not joining a debate in good faith.

I came up with the literal easiest counter to your argument and you can't defend your position because your point is weak so you try attacking my analysis. It's weak and something I'd expect from a few other former and current posters on this board, but hey guess we're here now with you too. Sad.

I didn't assume anything, you did. I asked you if length is so important, how did we play so well vs the 7 best teams in the West? And your response is to lose your damn mind and act like I'm the one supposed to qualify your point? Nah, that's on you bud.

You didn’t come up with crap. Not every team is above the average across the board. Yes Minnesota is and they also have a center Domas can bully. Use a concrete example and quit being so Fing lazy you want me to do your work.

I’m not looking up 7 teams as I already looked up the Pels and the Warriors are below average. Since averages aren’t posted and each team has to be researched individually, I at least made an effort to ask someone who has access to some data which is significantly more effort than your smug ass has made.

 

[The_Jamal]

You didn’t come up with crap. Not every team is above the average across the board. Yes Minnesota is and they also have a center Domas can bully. Use a concrete example and quit being so Fing lazy you want me to do your work.

I’m not looking up 7 teams as I already looked up the Pels and the Warriors are below average. Since averages aren’t posted and each team has to be researched individually, I at least made an effort to ask someone who has access to some data which is significantly more effort than your smug ass has made.

Good God, I'll spell this out for your since you're having trouble.

I'm not doing anything until you tell answer my question. That's YOUR work to qualify YOUR point about length being the most important missing factor for the Kings.

I never challenged length being important. That's years of posting history on my end crying for wings over and over.

I already posted my counter. We went 17-11 vs the 7 best teams in the West, so I don't think length matters as much as you think. Now, in an actual debate, you'd go disprove and counter my point back at me. It's not on me to do YOUR work for you.

I You're the one making the assertion and then trying to get me to qualify it for you LOL.

So until you counter my point, I'm assuming your counter is the top 7 West teams are below average in length and that's why we beat them. Got it.

 

[sactowndog]

Good God, I'll spell this out for your since you're having trouble.

I'm not doing anything until you tell answer my question. That's YOUR work to qualify YOUR point about length being the most important missing factor for the Kings.

I never challenged length being important. That's years of posting history on my end crying for wings over and over.

I already posted my counter. We went 17-11 vs the 7 best teams in the West, so I don't think length matters as much as you think. Now, in an actual debate, you'd go disprove and counter my point back at me. It's not on me to do YOUR work for you.

I You're the one making the assertion and then trying to get me to qualify it for you LOL.

So until you counter my point, I'm assuming your counter is the top 7 West teams are below average in length and that's why we beat them. Got it.

No it’s your job to substantiate your point that another team we beat handily is also significantly longer than average. I already conceded the T Pups are but have a ***** center. Pretty much the same with OKC. You are free to provide data on a counter point. And a team must be above average to prove your point and not every team can be above average.