FIRE MIKE BROWN

pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#181
#181
Nightlife isn't always parties, it's rolling out of the arena after 10pm and finding your favorite comfort food. That's easier in I'd say at least half if not 2/3rds of the NBA markets.

Sac definitely has an appeal. It's why an avid outdoorsman like Miller stuck around and I think why Ostertag came over though it didn't work out. Vlade had CA business ventures and if he couldn't be in LA he was happy to be in Sac. Domas's wife is in wine and they offseason in Napa I think, so great fit.
 
GWD

GWD

Bench
#182
#182
NiNetNiNe said:
Cool logical fallacy.

Missed what? I'm commenting in a thread titled "Fire Mike Brown." I only responded to you questioning the ability of Mike Brown because he is not going to win a COTY this year. Many coaches don't win it, that doesn't invalidate their ability to be a good coach.
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Ah, now I understand the lack of comprehension that you admitted. Carry on.
 
M

mrlaze

Bench
#183
#183
iowamcnabb said:
I don’t think 10 games over .500 in a stacked west is an average year IMO. Especially when you consider the injuries we had during what was considered the second toughest remaining schedule in the west.
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I'll give them, as an organization last year, a C+, or slightly above average. This team didnt fail, but they didnt stand out. They certianly didnt imporve. Organizations passed us, that dosent mean we are somehow better this season.
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#186
#186
Vinny Basketballerino said:
Either this year or next will be his last - I will quote this thread when it happens.

The only way he gets an extension is if we make a push in the playoffs into the second round. A first round exit and I think ownership will simply not renew. Gives another year for DC or another assistant to get comfortable with the idea (assuming someone whispers to him of the possibility).
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to be fair if Mike goes Monte should too…..

the Haliburton and Keegan pick was good but the Mitchell pick was horrendous. The trade with Dallas and decision to run it back was terrible.

In four years he has created an undersized front line that gets hammered in the play-offs. The criticism of Domas is he can’t win in the play-offs and so far he has done nothing to dispel that label. For that player we gave up an all star point guard and gave Domas a contract that locks us in for 4 years.

I get your criticism of Mike but you are letting Monte off the hook way too much.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#188
#188
captain bill said:
Since the link in the above doesn't embed:

https://twitter.com/statuses/1782607314182402147

Perfectly crafted red meat tweet for the forum in time for TDOS
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Probably not the best timing considering he just missed the playoffs. MB still got 2 years on his current contract, so he is not a “lame duck coach”. Next off season will be the make or break it period.

IMO, the Kings would be wise to at least wait to see how next season starts off before giving MB any extension.
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#189
#189
ockingsfan said:
Probably not the best timing considering he just missed the playoffs. MB still got 2 years on his current contract, so he is not a “lame duck coach”. Next off season will be the make or break it period.

IMO, the Kings would be wise to at least wait to see how next season starts off before giving MB any extension.
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I believe that NBC story is just a re-write of the Athletic article I posted earlier. In that piece, they reported that Brown doesn’t necessarily have 2 years left, the last year is a mutual option. It wasn’t specific about timing, but I didn’t have the sense that Brown is just now asking for an extension now that the season is over. It sounded more like he’d put that on the table a while ago, but ownership hasn’t made an offer, preferring to wait and see.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#190
#190
I want Mike Brown to be the long term coach of this team but a mutual option next year is perhaps best for both parties after missing the playoffs this season.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#191
#191
LPKingsFan said:
I believe that NBC story is just a re-write of the Athletic article I posted earlier. In that piece, they reported that Brown doesn’t necessarily have 2 years left, the last year is a mutual option. It wasn’t specific about timing, but I didn’t have the sense that Brown is just now asking for an extension now that the season is over. It sounded more like he’d put that on the table a while ago, but ownership hasn’t made an offer, preferring to wait and see.
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If that is the case, maybe the Kings should just go ahead and guarantee the 4th year, so that MB doesn’t become a “lame duck coach” next season.

Guaranteeing that 4th year may be the best option for all parties to ensure MB has the authority to command the locker room next season. Having a coach in the final year of their contract, can make them a “lame duck” and possibly torpedo a season.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#192
#192
ockingsfan said:
If that is the case, maybe the Kings should just go ahead and guarantee the 4th year, so that MB doesn’t become a “lame duck coach” next season.

Guaranteeing that 4th year may be the best option for all parties to ensure MB has the authority to command the locker room next season. Having a coach in the final year of their contract, can make them a “lame duck” and possibly torpedo a season.
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It sounds like MB doesn't want the guarantee he wants a raise.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

All-Star
#193
#193
The mutual option seems pretty silly. If we have success next season, Mike will likely decline the option and we have to pay him. If we win say 46 again and miss the playoffs will Mike opt in? If he doesn’t, Vivek has to give him a raise after a down year? This franchise needs stability more than it needs a championship even. You fire Mike, you might as well just fold it up and call it a day. All the credibility you have built up with agents, players and fans, down the drain because the grass is always greener. I’ve seen this rodeo before both with the Kings (Adelman) and my Hawkeyes (Tom Davis). Both times management wanted a fresh face to take them over the top and both times it ended in disaster. Coach after coach, bad season after bad season.

2 time coach of the year, one of the best win loss records in his career among active coaches and a proven culture changer and we are not sure about him. We’ve been crap forever, at least show you are a stable credible franchise for 4 or 5 years before taking a huge gamble and firing/ not retaining one of the main reasons you are in this position. If we win 42-52 games for a five year stretch, so be it! 10 times better than the nonsense we put up with for all these years. And that new GM/coach Vivek will hire in this scenerio will totally be an upgrade.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#194
#194
iowamcnabb said:
The mutual option seems pretty silly. If we have success next season, Mike will likely decline the option and we have to pay him. If we win say 46 again and miss the playoffs will Mike opt in? If he doesn’t, Vivek has to give him a raise after a down year? This franchise needs stability more than it needs a championship even. You fire Mike, you might as well just fold it up and call it a day. All the credibility you have built up with agents, players and fans, down the drain because the grass is always greener. I’ve seen this rodeo before both with the Kings (Adelman) and my Hawkeyes (Tom Davis). Both times management wanted a fresh face to take them over the top and both times it ended in disaster. Coach after coach, bad season after bad season.

2 time coach of the year, one of the best win loss records in his career among active coaches and a proven culture changer and we are not sure about him. We’ve been crap forever, at least show you are a stable credible franchise for 4 or 5 years before taking a huge gamble and firing/ not retaining one of the main reasons you are in this position. If we win 42-52 games for a five year stretch, so be it! 10 times better than the nonsense we put up with for all these years. And that new GM/coach Vivek will hire in this scenerio will totally be an upgrade.
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Do you think he deserves a raise after this year?
Like I said I want to keep him. But if they won't mutually agree to exercise the option right now I'm calling Brown out for that.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

All-Star
#195
#195
pdxKingsFan said:
Do you think he deserves a raise after this year?
Like I said I want to keep him. But if they won't mutually agree to exercise the option right now I'm calling Brown out for that.
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Given that Kerr makes 17.5 and Mike is making 5, yes I think he deserves a raise. The market has been reset for coaches with these last 3 big deals. I would prob give him a raise for this upcoming season and guarantee the following year if that is all possible.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#196
#196
iowamcnabb said:
Given that Kerr makes 17.5 and Mike is making 5, yes I think he deserves a raise. The market has been reset for coaches with these last 3 big deals. I would prob give him a raise for this upcoming season and guarantee the following year if that is all possible.
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ok what do you think is fair? like Detroit isn't exactly getting good value on Monty. All of the other high paid guys have multiple rings.

Jason Kidd and Nick Nurse (who has a ring) are 8m each. I'd say I'd be fine bumping up to that for 2 more years. But I could also see some hesitation if Brown insisted on some of the personnel moves that didn't work out (which is speculated around the Kings community)
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#197
#197
Brown isn't getting fired and with emotions so high, someone was bound to create this thread. I suppose its something to discuss as some of us don't engage in the Postseason or only partially. I bumped the training camp thread only for it to disappear for some reason so I thought I'd share what I shared in that thread and that is to point out that coming out after year two and claiming that they are expecting to compete for a championship without jumping hurdles is not real life. Perhaps it was Brown's way of taking his players motivation to the next notch but it's not quite how it works and progress isn't always going to be linear so just book this as another learning experience and hope the core players that do stick around, will learn and improve.
 
coolhandluke

coolhandluke

Starter
#198
#198
captain bill said:
Since the link in the above doesn't embed:

https://twitter.com/statuses/1782607314182402147

Perfectly crafted red meat tweet for the forum in time for TDOS
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Let's stir the pot a bit more. ;)

The team has regressed overall (much worse on offense, better on defense compared to last season) and had a record that is tied for #10 in a 15-team conference.

What's the hurry in renegotiating an already agreed upon contract? Maybe ask for a raise after making the playoffs? Should we include performance based incentives for coaches? Maybe something like $1MM bonus for every playoff series win?

I'm more amused by the timing to ask for a raise after showing that "I've got nothing" and getting embarrassed on National TV for the nth time by the Pelicans. The ability to realize what is working and what is not on a given day is a skill. So is reading the room.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

All-Star
#200
#200
pdxKingsFan said:
ok what do you think is fair? like Detroit isn't exactly getting good value on Monty. All of the other high paid guys have multiple rings.

Jason Kidd and Nick Nurse (who has a ring) are 8m each. I'd say I'd be fine bumping up to that for 2 more years. But I could also see some hesitation if Brown insisted on some of the personnel moves that didn't work out (which is speculated around the Kings community)
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id say 2 for 20-24 would be ok. Pop just coached his 5th straight losing season and he is getting 16. And admittedly Kerr and Pops are legendary coaches who probably are not the best examples but I think 10 mil a year or so is justified given the kings history and our recent “success”. The unanimous coach of the year award alone justified a deal like that imo. Never been done before. For me, I’d like the stability of a two year window and if you want to make a clean break after that at least you could argue that you gave the Situation a fair shake and things didn’t work out. And honestly if that happens you are probably looking at a different iteration of your core anyway. Either a blow up or a major trade
 
GWD

GWD

Bench
#201
#201
The "unanimous coach of the year" situation requires a deeper inspection before elevating it to a determinative evaluation of coaching talent.

Brown's first season (2022-23) as King's coach included significant player personnel moves by Monte. Not the least of which was Sabonis (full year), Murray, and Monk among others. The upgraded players, as well as lack of injuries during the regular season, give an apple/oranges comparison with past years of mediocrity. Under these circumstances, a different coach could be conjectured to have achieved COY with the Kings. Pure conjecture to be sure but defining the exact source of the Kings success due specifically to Brown's contribution is murky.

What is remarkable is that Coach Brown does not seem to be remarkable. Examples are strewn throughout this forum thread about areas of concern and need. Not that he requires to be immediately fired for cause. But the Kings management must see something that many here do not. That is, being COY under the circumstances which produced the award does not indicate to management that monetary compensation and tenure is earned based on their far more complete understanding of the situation. The wait-and-see position seems clearly justified given missing the playoffs this season regardless of the excuses and winning record. Management may just be on to something.
 
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T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#207
#207
Tetsujin said:
To be clear, I am a huge fan of Dort but his argument which is even more ridiculous in hindsight now that Fox is an All-NBA level player would be like if I said Keon Ellis was better than Tyrese Haliburton.
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Trust, if there's a fan out there who believes this, they'll find their way onto this forum and I'll have to charity bet them into the shadow realm.
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#208
#208
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Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#210
#210
Brown had some interesting comments in the presser. When asked about the offense the first thing he talked about was the regression in "pace." Implied that part of it was a lack of clarity on when to run on makes or misses, but then also said they didn't run hard enough to the corners off the ball. Also said that they took too many guarded 3 pointers and more mid-level shots than last year, but then said that Keegan and Monk are going to need to take some of those shots (guarded 3 pointers). (Didn't make mention of Fox in that conversation though.:D).

Regarding the roster, Brown said "change will occur."

P.S. Brown also made mention of the free throws. He expects the overall team to work on it during the offseason.
 
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