Evans versus Rubio

[roasthawg]

The thing with Evans is his upside is so high... imo his ceiling is Dwayne Wade with a Rodney Stuckey floor. I know people don't want to hear that he has a Wade ceiling but really the comparison just seems so obvious to me... very similar freshman seasons with Evans having the slightly better year. Evans is a little bigger and athletically they are in the same ballpark especially when you consider that Wade was two years older than Tyreke when he went through the combine... at 19 years old I think it's safe to say that Tyreke has not maxed out athletically and that two years from now he'll be able to better his combine workout numbers. From a style of play standpoint both players are very similar... they can get to the basket at will and appear to be able to play SG or PG.

I have no doubt in my mind that Tyreke could end up being the best player in this draft... this is a league where the best teams all have a guy who can get his shot off at will and Tyreke could end up being that guy for us. Rubio just doesn't have that potential... Evans over Rubio was the right call imo and hopefully in a few years it will be obvious to everyone that the Kings got it right.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He's not on Wade's level athletically. Wade can really take off with above the rim explosion. Evans is more about using his strength and reach to finish, he can't lift off like Wade can. Whether he can get better athletically, I don't really know what you're basing that off of.

 

[roasthawg]

Whether he can get better athletically, I don't really know what you're basing that off of.

Based on the fact that he's only 19. His body isn't done maturing yet... he should continue to develop from an athletic standpoint until he's in his early to mid 20's I think. 19 is pretty young... like I said, Wade participated in the combine at the age of 21, in two years Evans should be better off athletically than he is now at 19. Early to mid 20's is where NBA players hit their athletic peak... they generally stay close to that peak status until their early 30's.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

The thing with Evans is his upside is so high... imo his ceiling is Dwayne Wade with a Rodney Stuckey floor. I know people don't want to hear that he has a Wade ceiling but really the comparison just seems so obvious to me... very similar freshman seasons with Evans having the slightly better year. Evans is a little bigger and athletically they are in the same ballpark especially when you consider that Wade was two years older than Tyreke when he went through the combine... at 19 years old I think it's safe to say that Tyreke has not maxed out athletically and that two years from now he'll be able to better his combine workout numbers. From a style of play standpoint both players are very similar... they can get to the basket at will and appear to be able to play SG or PG.

I have no doubt in my mind that Tyreke could end up being the best player in this draft... this is a league where the best teams all have a guy who can get his shot off at will and Tyreke could end up being that guy for us. Rubio just doesn't have that potential... Evans over Rubio was the right call imo and hopefully in a few years it will be obvious to everyone that the Kings got it right.

Well said. Couldn't agree more with this point. I can't remember the last time the Kings were able to get consistent good looks at the end of games and it seems with his skill set Evans should either be able to get looks for himself or create double teams opening things up for others.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well said. Couldn't agree more with this point. I can't remember the last time the Kings were able to get consistent good looks at the end of games and it seems with his skill set Evans should either be able to get looks for himself or create double teams opening things up for others.

That's definitely the advantage of Evans, he just needs to drastically improve his shooting to make himself a complete threat. He still has a long way to get there, but if he's willing to put the work in and cut down on his 3's I don't see why he can't get there eventually.

 

[vikinginferno]

Yeah, an important piece in the NBA is to have a guy who can score late in games and Rubio doesn't seem like he can do that. Tyreke definitely seems like he has the potential to be a great late game scorer.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I'm afraid it's not that black and white.

You're right, it was a simplification. However, if they both become superstars with the qualities they possess, I think it is fair to say that Evans possesses more attributes that you stereotypically see of top players on championship teams, while Rubio possesses some amazing qualities of players we have wanted to win, but just haven't. It goes back to the how many pure PGs have been on championship teams argument other people have made.

And this is not to hate on Rubio at all. I love him, wanted us to pick him and think he will be an amazing player. I just feel that Evans can be too and he his ability to create baskets and play D will translate well to the end of close games.

 

[Vlade4GM]

You're right, it was a simplification. However, if they both become superstars with the qualities they possess, I think it is fair to say that Evans possesses more attributes that you stereotypically see of top players on championship teams, while Rubio possesses some amazing qualities of players we have wanted to win, but just haven't. It goes back to the how many pure PGs have been on championship teams argument other people have made.

And this is not to hate on Rubio at all. I love him, wanted us to pick him and think he will be an amazing player. I just feel that Evans can be too and he his ability to create baskets and play D will translate well to the end of close games.

I do agree with you in principle, it's just that I think that Rubio is more likely get to that elusive upside you're talking about than Evans' is.

 

[Chupacabra]

Everyone that prefers Rubio to Evans is guilty of being to easily persuaded by hype. On draft day I was crossing my fingers hoping the Kings didnt pick a SOFT EURO player to lead the team. Rubio is going to have major problems defensively. Rubio also isnt known as a scorer. So why on a 17 win team would you want to pick a guy who is good at passing the ball as opposed to a guy that can score? If anything Evans is a versatile point guard who will harrass opposing points in the league with his height and length.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Everyone that prefers Rubio to Evans is guilty of being to easily persuaded by hype. On draft day I was crossing my fingers hoping the Kings didnt pick a SOFT EURO player to lead the team. Rubio is going to have major problems defensively. Rubio also isnt known as a scorer. So why on a 17 win team would you want to pick a guy who is good at passing the ball as opposed to a guy that can score? If anything Evans is a versatile point guard who will harrass opposing points in the league with his height and length.

 

[VF21]

Everyone that prefers Rubio to Evans is guilty of being to easily persuaded by hype. On draft day I was crossing my fingers hoping the Kings didnt pick a SOFT EURO player to lead the team. Rubio is going to have major problems defensively. Rubio also isnt known as a scorer. So why on a 17 win team would you want to pick a guy who is good at passing the ball as opposed to a guy that can score? If anything Evans is a versatile point guard who will harrass opposing points in the league with his height and length.

I have to agree with Vlade4GM above. It's a proven fact on message boards that people should always remember to never make generalizations such as no one or everyone as they'll always find a reason to wish they had never made them.

 

[Gary]

Everyone that prefers Rubio to Evans is guilty of being to easily persuaded by hype. On draft day I was crossing my fingers hoping the Kings didnt pick a SOFT EURO player to lead the team. Rubio is going to have major problems defensively. Rubio also isnt known as a scorer. So why on a 17 win team would you want to pick a guy who is good at passing the ball as opposed to a guy that can score? If anything Evans is a versatile point guard who will harrass opposing points in the league with his height and length.

Incorrect... Incorrect....

We as Kings fans aren't all lemmings.

Someone mentioned Derron Williams stats vs. Evans.. Yikes... What stats don't mention are actual facts about a player like court vision, decent PG skills like making players better around you, or BBall IQ ect ect..

Heck, Look at Douby's college stats.. He had similar assist numbers, and less turnovers, plus he could shoot the ball A LOT better than Evans according to the stats.. But is Douby half the player Evans is? Not at all.

So the stats argument is just plain stupid, and whoever tries to compare his stats to all star PGs in the NBA when they were in college is laughable.

 

[VF21]

Um, come on...

One person makes an over-generalization statement and you follow it with an opposing but equally over-generalizing statement?

Geez...

 

[Gary]

uhm i can't wait to see what kind of comeback that is going to recieve. good find.

Come on man.. Stats are what people quote when they don't know squat about a player.. See above.. I named a King with better overall stats than Evans, but is he better? not at all.

 

[Gary]

Um, come on...

One person makes an over-generalization statement and you follow it with an opposing but equally over-generalizing statement?

Geez...

I was showing how stats are pretty much not a good comparison point. You can't really compare them because it doesn't even factor in whether or not the guy is a PG. Throw in JT's college stats and he almost looks like a SG.

Just saying stats really don't really mean much if you use them to compare to others that are totally different players like Williams vs. Evans. Was just trying to make a point in Douby vs. Evans, nothing more.

 

[swisshh]

Marbury was the PER king of PGs for awhile.

And two teams were dumb enough to trade for him. And the team that traded him away, replaced him with a 'natural' PG and went on to win far more than they did with Marbury.

I don't argue stats about any player. They are just an end result of a long story, but if you don't know the story then the ending is meaningless.

 

[VF21]

I was showing how stats are pretty much not a good comparison point. You can't really compare them because it doesn't even factor in whether or not the guy is a PG. Throw in JT's college stats and he almost looks like a SG.

Just saying stats really don't really mean much if you use them to compare to others that are totally different players like Williams vs. Evans. Was just trying to make a point in Douby vs. Evans, nothing more.

I was referring to this:

So the stats argument is just plain stupid, and whoever tries to compare his stats to all star PGs in the NBA when they were in college is laughable.

Kind of the pot calling the kettle black, if you catch my drift.

 

[Chupacabra]

Why the facial expression Vlade? Are Europian players not known for being soft? Isnt Ricky Rubio a non athletic 6'5 180lb euro guard? In my opinion he has all the makings of a bust. Its well documented that on the whole europian players lack toughness. With the exception of Tony Parker and Mikael Pietrus i have a hard time naming another tough europian.
Tyreke Evans on the other hand looks like a prototype guard. What he lacks in speed he more than makes up for with size and length. Evans is going to give the leagues point guards problems.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

That's definitely the advantage of Evans, he just needs to drastically improve his shooting to make himself a complete threat. He still has a long way to get there, but if he's willing to put the work in and cut down on his 3's I don't see why he can't get there eventually.

Agree, he's not going to reach his ceiling without a lot of improvement and hard work. But he has a good foundation to began working with.

 

[VF21]

Why the facial expression Vlade? Are Europian players not known for being soft? Isnt Ricky Rubio a non athletic 6'5 180lb euro guard? In my opinion he has all the makings of a bust.
Tyreke Evans on the other hand looks like a prototype guard. What he lacks in speed he more than makes up for with size and length. Evans is going to give the leagues point guards problems.

Stereotypical comments are often wrong and the instant stereotyping of "European players" as soft is not even worth discussing.

You're entitled to your opinons. I just think labelling anyone a "bum" is without basis in fact and unnecessary.

If you're speaking about the , that's a winking emoticon to indicate that the person using it is perhaps poking gentle fun at someone more than anything else.

 

[VF21]

Why the facial expression Vlade? Are Europian players not known for being soft? Isnt Ricky Rubio a non athletic 6'5 180lb euro guard? In my opinion he has all the makings of a bust. Its well documented that on the whole europian players lack toughness. With the exception of Tony Parker and Mikael Pietrus i have a hard time naming another tough europian.
Tyreke Evans on the other hand looks like a prototype guard. What he lacks in speed he more than makes up for with size and length. Evans is going to give the leagues point guards problems.

In regards to your addition to the post I quoted above, I have two words in regards to the bolded part...

Horse pucky.

If you're planning on coming here and spouting anti-European generalizations at the drop of a hat, you might want to take a moment and read our Tips for Posting. Our rule #1 is pretty clear - don't be a jerk.

 

[swisshh]

The whole euro = soft thing is an old bias and generalization. Manu is a flopper, but Nocionni has a tough rep. Same with AK47. We just drafted Omri and he has a tough rep.

Though Rubio does have a flopper rep. Or a rep for baiting people into the flop.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

Incorrect... Incorrect....

We as Kings fans aren't all lemmings.

Someone mentioned Derron Williams stats vs. Evans.. Yikes... What stats don't mention are actual facts about a player like court vision, decent PG skills like making players better around you, or BBall IQ ect ect..

Heck, Look at Douby's college stats.. He had similar assist numbers, and less turnovers, plus he could shoot the ball A LOT better than Evans according to the stats.. But is Douby half the player Evans is? Not at all.

So the stats argument is just plain stupid, and whoever tries to compare his stats to all star PGs in the NBA when they were in college is laughable.

Maybe you should look at them again. His freshman stats are nowhere near Evans my friend, and actually had a much lower career FG % than Evans had in his one year.

I know stats aren't everything and was never trying to say they were. I was using them to show that a guy who never played PG seemed to put up decent PG stats in his first attempt at playing the position. Even when compared to guys that have played the position their whole lives. He showed he can play the position and run a winning team. Those stats were for Carolija who said that D. Williams had been successfully running teams since college and Evans had never "run a team".

Please share your basketball IQ meter with the rest of us, and can you give me Evans exact score in relation to other players.

 

[Chupacabra]

The whole euro = soft thing is an old bias and generalization. Manu is a flopper, but Nocionni has a tough rep. Same with AK47. We just drafted Omri and he has a tough rep.

Though Rubio does have a flopper rep. Or a rep for baiting people into the flop.

Manu and Nocionni are from Argentina which is in South America Which isnt Europe. If ive offended anyone by calling Europian basketball players soft then I apologize. Ill try to use more sugar coated language.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

The whole euro = soft thing is an old bias and generalization. Manu is a flopper, but Nocionni has a tough rep. Same with AK47. We just drafted Omri and he has a tough rep.

Though Rubio does have a flopper rep. Or a rep for baiting people into the flop.

None of those guys are Euros.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He showed a tremendous ability to break down defenses with his ball handling (ambidextrous) and change of pace/direction, IQ well beyond his age, quick decision making with the ball, excellent pick and roll player (I'm talking Stockton, Nash potential), passing/vision the level of Jason Kidd, and a very good motor (although not tested at NBA starter minutes,) he never gives up on a play, great awareness and ability to cause deflections on the defensive end. Good rebounding PG. He has elite PG size, good length, and IQ that is extremely rare at that age. His ability to facilitate in the half court is very impressive considering his age. Showed great toughness playing with a wrist injury both during the olympics and during the regular season this year.

His weaknesses? lacks great explosiveness although he is an underrated athlete. Lacks scoring ability off the dribble, has a slow release on his shot, lacks elevation, his set shot is decent. Sometimes turns down shots that he needs to take (needs to be more aggressive as a scorer), sometimes forces passes that aren't there. Lacks finishing ability, he has a good touch with both hands but since he lacks strength he needs to learn how to use his body to shield the ball like Nash does. Lacks the lateral quickness to be a great man defender, decent lateral quicks, but more of a team defender.

What does he have going for him coming to the NBA? Better spacing in the NBA, easier to get to the basket than in ACB/Euroleague. He's 18 and has a lot of experience. His biggest weakness is his shooting ability, which is the easiest skill to learn, his strengths are the things that are extremely difficult teach. Elite PG height/length. Great enthusiasm for the game, selfless winning attitude, and exudes confidence. The officiating in the NBA favors perimeter players.

What does he have going against him coming to the NBA? Simply facing superior overall talent both offensively and defensively. Getting used to playing more minutes in a game and more games in a season. Can very well have an easier time getting to the basket in the NBA, but will meet much tougher post defenders in the NBA. Will have to get used to the different style of play of the NBA. Defenders will lay off him and make him prove he can shoot.

High: Late career Jason Kidd
Mid: Andre Miller
Low: Shaun Livingston

Here's what I wrote about Rubio in another thread (getting kind of tired of repeating myself.)

Why the facial expression Vlade? Are Europian players not known for being soft? Isnt Ricky Rubio a non athletic 6'5 180lb euro guard? In my opinion he has all the makings of a bust.
Tyreke Evans on the other hand looks like a prototype guard. What he lacks in speed he more than makes up for with size and length. Evans is going to give the leagues point guards problems.

You made a gross generalization of everyone who supported picking Rubio. Like VF said, it had no basis in fact.

Geographical stereotypes have no place in civil discussion.

I don't even know what you mean by soft, there are too many definitions of the term for me to appropriately respond to it.

He's not an uber-athlete like Paul, Rondo, Williams, Kidd in his prime. He's not a "non-athlete" though either, we're not talking Marko Jaric/Sarunas Jasikevicius here. He's got good speed (takes long strides,) great at changing speeds and directions, he's deceptively quick, and very good balance/body control. These are athletic qualities, underrated athletic qualities actually. He's not a burner speed wise, but he's fast with the ball. Weaknesses? Doesn't have great explosiveness with his first step or leaping ability, these are real concerns but they're definitely not deal breakers.

Evans is definitely more athletic than Rubio, and he's got a much more mature body than Rubio. There's no debate there. However, Rubio is 6'5 with a long reach, why doesn't he get credit for you for having elite PG height? Sure he doesn't have the strength or skillset to use it to post up yet but you're mistaken if you don't think he uses it to his advantage defensively, in the lane, and on the boards.

 

[VF21]

Manu and Nocionni are from Argentina which is in South America Which isnt Europe. If ive offended anyone by calling Europian basketball players soft then I apologize. Ill try to use more sugar coated language.

Here's the deal... We've got a great board going here, with some notable differences from a lot of the other sports message boards out there. It's pretty well laid out in our Tips for Posting stickied at the top of the Kings Rap forum. If you choose to post here, all we ask is you follow our rules. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp if you think about it.

Thanks ever so.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Why the facial expression Vlade? Are Europian players not known for being soft? Isnt Ricky Rubio a non athletic 6'5 180lb euro guard? In my opinion he has all the makings of a bust. Its well documented that on the whole europian players lack toughness. With the exception of Tony Parker and Mikael Pietrus i have a hard time naming another tough europian.
Tyreke Evans on the other hand looks like a prototype guard. What he lacks in speed he more than makes up for with size and length. Evans is going to give the leagues point guards problems.

You may be right about Rubio, but the soft Euro label isn't fair. On top of Parker and Pietrus, you have our old fav Rooney, Biedrens, Hedo, Kirelenko, Gortat, Rudy Fernandez, and even Bellinelli is tough if not overrated. I think the days of the soft, European shooter stereotype are over.

 

[Chupacabra]

Vlade4GM, Rubio being 6'5 and a good passer will make him a good distributing point guard, no doubt. The fact that he only weighs 170-180 lbs though means hes not going to be strong enough to take contact. So if he isnt quick enough to go by the better guards in the NBA and isnt strong enough to create contact, then what type of offensive game is he going to have? You can also flip those two lacking physical aspects around and question his defense as well. If i were a betting man id bet that when Rubio stops ducking NBA competition in Spain he'll be ranked among the bottom half of point guards in the NBA.

 

[Chupacabra]

You may be right about Rubio, but the soft Euro label isn't fair. On top of Parker and Pietrus, you have our old fav Rooney, Biedrens, Hedo, Kirelenko, Gortat, Rudy Fernandez, and even Bellinelli is tough if not overrated. I think the days of the soft, European shooter stereotype are over.

Hedo missed 2 free throws in a row and something like 5 out of his last 6 free throws which cost his team the game in an NBA finals series. On the biggest stage in his sport instead of stepping his game up, he stepped down.
Kirilenko is Russian. Russia is located on the continent of asia.
Biedrins still hasnt done anything worth mentioning, nor has Rudy Fernandez or Gortat or Bellinelli. Gortat im somewhat partial to. Bellinelli seems to fit the stereotype almost perfectly.
This is the last ill speak on the subject of you know what as not to drag the thread off topic.