ESPN Insider excerpts - Artest emails Stein

[Cal-Kings]

Only Marc Stein can use an email denying everything he's arguing for as evidence that he is right.

Exactly...

 

[venom_7]

I still don't understand why everybody wants to make this trade. From a basketball standpoint it is a terrible trade.

 

[Cal-Kings]

Look sports writers have to write SOMETHING every deadline, and there is tremendous presure to at least APEAR to have inside contacts and info. So stories get printed all the time based on rumor, inuindo, supisition, hunches and some just wild guesses. The truth is that the ONLY people who know if Ron is Happy or not, and if there even IS a real offer from the Clips are Ron, the Malooofs/Petrie so going on and on about it is POINTLESS. Really folks there is nothing to discuss here. If you wnat to spin yarns and fantisize fine... post up you fantasies but dont take other peoples fantasies seriously and don't expect any serious discussion.

So, are you saying you wouldn't trade Artest for Maggette??

 

[kennadog]

1) So far all these 'problems' have been pure speculation. IMHO, I just think it started with one reporter ...*. (Voison)
2) He hasn't done anything wrong, and untill he even hints that he is going to mess things up, then there is no reason to jump on his back.

Actually, that's not true. The Bee's Kings beat reporter, Sam Amick, had an article talking about problems with Artest in the last few weeks. Some of it may be rumors or unidentified sources, but this is a reporter who covers the Kings, travels with the team and goes to practices. I don't think it can be blown off as mere speculation.

There's a link to Sam Amick's article in Stein's piece.

 

[VF21]

2) He hasn't done anything wrong, and untill he even hints that he is going to mess things up, then there is no reason to jump on his back.
3) The team isn't that bad. Most of the games we've lost have been close games to good teams. A few have been blowouts, but that's because we don't match up well with Pheonix, Dallas, and the wannabe Golden State. We won close games with Miami, Chicago, Minnesota, Utah. We've lost close games against San Antonio, Minnesota, Pheonix, Dallas, and others.

First, there have been "hints" - unless you're actually convinced those last minute sore knees and other injuries were actually severe enough to keep Ron Artest off the court.

Second, I don't know what team you've been watching but they have been that bad.

It's nice to want to give Ron Artest the benefit of the doubt, but if you aren't at least concerned with what's been going on you haven't been paying attention.

Go to one of the Pacer boards. Look back in their archives about how Artest acted once he came back from his suspension. There are eerie similarities...

IF (and this is for assumption purposes only) things are bad enough that we need to move Artest, the idea that we'll only trade him for a defensive big man is naive. IF (assumption again) the team decides they have to trade him, they're going to take the first best offer IMHO and not have it drawn out the way it was in Indiana.

IF (another assumptive lead), on the other hand, things are being blown out of all proportion, we'll know soon enough. Actions speak louder than words. If the team comes out and plays good cohesive ball with communication, trust, etc., we'll know this has all been a tempest in a teapot.

 

[BMiller52]

First, there have been "hints" - unless you're actually convinced those last minute sore knees and other injuries were actually severe enough to keep Ron Artest off the court.

Second, I don't know what team you've been watching but they have been that bad.

It's nice to want to give Ron Artest the benefit of the doubt, but if you aren't at least concerned with what's been going on you haven't been paying attention.

Go to one of the Pacer boards. Look back in their archives about how Artest acted once he came back from his suspension. There are eerie similarities...

IF (and this is for assumption purposes only) things are bad enough that we need to move Artest, the idea that we'll only trade him for a defensive big man is naive. IF (assumption again) the team decides they have to trade him, they're going to take the first best offer IMHO and not have it drawn out the way it was in Indiana.

IF (another assumptive lead), on the other hand, things are being blown out of all proportion, we'll know soon enough. Actions speak louder than words. If the team comes out and plays good cohesive ball with communication, trust, etc., we'll know this has all been a tempest in a teapot.

Then let's hope that's what happens

 

[Cal-Kings]

Actually, that's not true. The Bee's Kings beat reporter, Sam Amick, had an article talking about problems with Artest in the last few weeks. Some of it may be rumors or unidentified sources, but this is a reporter who covers the Kings, travels with the team and goes to practices. I don't think it can be blown off as mere speculation.

There's a link to Sam Amick's article in Stein's piece.

Sam Amick?

When Mark Kreidler comes back and writes it, I'll be more likely to buy it.

 

[venom_7]

I have watched BAD games by this team, but some of you act like we are the Hawks or the Sixers. Amick knows what is going on, but he never flat out said that Artest is being the antagonist. I think not talking to his teammates is wierd, but I also think his knee thing was legit. He said he'd work it out throughout the day and decide if he could play or not. Unfortunately he told Muss 58 minutes before the game so he couldn't activate Mo Taylor (big deal.) I don't think its naive to expect a better trade than Artest for Maggette. You could send him and Thomas to Orlando for Ariza and Battie.

 

[Rockmeister]

3) The team isn't that bad.

Wow. You really think this team isn't that bad. The team we have right now isn't going going far. For you season ticket holders, you won't need to pay for playoff tickets because the Kings aren't going to the playoffs. They will be going fishing instead. Philly has a record of 7-20. If we lose to them tonight, the Kings are just a sad, sad team. You know C. Webb is looking forward to playing against his old team. I think that will be incentive enough for him to beat us, therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if we lose.

 

[kennadog]

Sam Amick?

When Mark Kreidler comes back and writes it, I'll be more likely to buy it.

My only point was that Amick is with the team all the time, whereas Voison and Stein definitely aren't. To me, that gives it at least a bit more weight.

 

[venom_7]

I am not opposed to the idea of trading Artest, I just think we could get better than Maggette. And I don't think anything need be done except better play on the court.

 

[NBAGURU]

Hey VF21!!!!

Have you heard anything from your sources?? Any truth to all of this??

Thanks buddy!

 

[Cal-Kings]

My only point was that Amick is with the team all the time, whereas Voison and Stein definitely aren't. To me, that gives it at least a bit more weight.

Perhaps.

I'm not totally discounting Amick. I just miss Kreidler.

The Bee sucks these days. Not that it hasn't sucked for 50 years.

 

[kennadog]

I think not talking to his teammates is wierd, but I also think his knee thing was legit. He said he'd work it out throughout the day and decide if he could play or not. Unfortunately he told Muss 58 minutes before the game so he couldn't activate Mo Taylor (big deal.)

The sore knees may be legit, but I think Ron handeled it poorly. Since Ron also said the knees had been bothering him for a couple of weeks and no one in the organization knew that (including the trainers), I think that's rather inexcusable myself. Fine, tell them the knees are sore and its going to be a day to day thing, but to not tell anyone anything until right before a game?

 

[kennadog]

Perhaps.

I'm not totally discounting Amick. I just miss Kreidler.

The Bee sucks these days. Not that it hasn't sucked for 50 years.

Me, too. Big time.

 

[supamari0]

I am not opposed to the idea of trading Artest, I just think we could get better than Maggette. And I don't think anything need be done except better play on the court.

I agree. He's a great scorer but he doesn't play defense and can do some pretty boneheaded things. Phenomenal athlete and can slash better than nearly every other player of his size but he decides to shoot too many stupid jumpshots. (wake up Corey, you're a BAD three point shooter, worse than Artest as a matter of fact) I just wish he'd just take the ball and cut to the basket especially considering that the NBA refs will call a foul for breathing on someone who tries to cut to the basket.

The Maggette bandwagon is a pretty funny one. In houston, everyone would cry for him. Then we'd play the Clips and everyone would realize that he's quite a bonehead at times and would get off the bandwagon. Later it would pick up when people forget how he plays. A nice player but you would think that some eastern conference team would be desperate enough to take on a guy like Ron and overpay with draft picks and a decent player. You'll never get anyone better than Maggette for Ron but I would like to believe that someone will give draft picks and some serviceable players.

It would be nice if the Kings could parlay a draft pick with the deal but Artest is damaged goods combined with the fact that this is the 3rd go around for the Artest trade bandwagon so you'll get diminishing returns from any trade involving Ronald.

 

[SacTownKid]

Only Marc Stein can use an email denying everything he's arguing for as evidence that he is right.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Best post in the thread.

 

[SacBlaze]

Heres the thing really, What Has Artest Done Wrong Since he got here? Take bad shots? WOW we got Bibby, Miller, Corliss, Douby, Hart, Price, Cisco, at times taking bad shots. He did miss a couple of games, Maybe he is actually hurt and saving himself from a long term injury. Which could hurt us in the long run if he plays hurt. Bibby hurts his wrist, still doesnt have he shot and more then half are mad at him and want to get him the hell out of sac cus his shots arent fallin. Why didnt he just rest it some of you say. Well Artest rest his injuries and plp give him Ish!

Today in sports Players have no probelms demanding trades. AI, TO, Maggette, Moss, Even Kobe if shaq wasnt leaving. But what does Artest say? I want to finish my career in Sac. I want to play with Bibby, I belive we can still make playoffs, I want to build a home here. Yet everyone reading in to the media hype and them twisting his words around and eating it all up. What happen to the deal that ESPN, and Mostly every NBA site was talking bout the trade for Bibby and AI? NOTHING! Grant last year said there was no way we would get Artest that he had his sources, and if we did he would quit the next day (so much for that). No one knows for sure whats going on behind close doors beside the team. I for one will stand by Artest until he no longer on this team. People seem to forget that once he came aboard the team last year we jumped up to one of the 5 best teams in the league (winning wise) and we give the spurs a nice run for their money.

And to say there will be noone interested in Artest later on if he does blow up is Redick! TO is perfect example, He downgraded Frisco, Gets traded to the Ravens then back out at the end. Traded to the Eagles and looked how that turned out, and yet still was getting alot of offers in the offseason. So will Moss if the Raiders plan to trade him. So did AI. So did Bonzi wells. Someone will always want him.

Until i see the words come out of his mouth that he wants to leave then thats fine. But until then stop blowing this up like Artest is the guy demanding the trade. From what i seen in todays game he was moving the ball and still wanting to win! LOL it feels good to get all this off my chest LOL

 

[slugking50]

Sam Amick?

When Mark Kreidler comes back and writes it, I'll be more likely to buy it.

Um... You do know the differene between a reporter and a columnist right?


Sam Amick = reporter. He has to tell the truth fro the facts hes gathered.

Marc Kriedler, ALiene Voison, Marcos Breton = Columnist. They can twist facts into lies without punishment.

 

[VF21]

Um... You do know the differene between a reporter and a columnist right?


Sam Amick = reporter. He has to tell the truth fro the facts hes gathered.

Marc Kriedler, ALiene Voison, Marcos Breton = Columnist. They can twist facts into lies without punishment.

You're kidding,right? Mark Kreidler is one of the most respected folk around. He does NOT twist facts into lies...

And, as a matter of fact, most columnists aren't given anywhere near the leeway you see to believe they have. They are masters at innuendo, phrasing their opinions to appear factual, etc. That's a lot different than "twist facts into lies without punishment." I have a lot of problems with the Bee sometimes but I will defend them against comments like that, and especially Mark Kreidler who has consistently put facts out there for his readers to absorb and interpret for themselves.

Now, about Sam Amick? He has to write a story to meet a deadline. If he is using direct quotes, those have to be accurate. (Not necessarily reported in sequence, but the words should be those that actually came from the person's mouth.) If however he simply makes statements like "Mike Bibby is upset about the trade talks" then he doesn't have to prove it. "Upset" is a judgment call and not pure fact. If it was "Mike Bibby SAYS he's upset" then it better be something Amick - or any other writer - can back up with notes or tape.

If a reporter has a "source" who will say "Mike Bibby told me he's upset" then he can use that, too, and cite "unnamed sources" or "people with access to information" or something else.

Reporters are trying to get people who know things to reveal them so the reporters can be the first to report the BIG story. Unfortunately, most reporters are now under a real handicap because most stuff breaks on the Internet long before it can get to print or even broadcast media.

Sorry I rambled but Mark Kreidler is a good guy. Comparing him to Breton is just wrong on every level I can imagine.

 

[slugking50]

You're kidding,right? Mark Kreidler is one of the most respected folk around. He does NOT twist facts into lies...

And, as a matter of fact, most columnists aren't given anywhere near the leeway you see to believe they have. They are masters at innuendo, phrasing their opinions to appear factual, etc. That's a lot different than "twist facts into lies without punishment." I have a lot of problems with the Bee sometimes but I will defend them against comments like that, and especially Mark Kreidler who has consistently put facts out there for his readers to absorb and interpret for themselves.

Now, about Sam Amick? He has to write a story to meet a deadline. If he is using direct quotes, those have to be accurate. (Not necessarily reported in sequence, but the words should be those that actually came from the person's mouth.) If however he simply makes statements like "Mike Bibby is upset about the trade talks" then he doesn't have to prove it. "Upset" is a judgment call and not pure fact. If it was "Mike Bibby SAYS he's upset" then it better be something Amick - or any other writer - can back up with notes or tape.

If a reporter has a "source" who will say "Mike Bibby told me he's upset" then he can use that, too, and cite "unnamed sources" or "people with access to information" or something else.

Reporters are trying to get people who know things to reveal them so the reporters can be the first to report the BIG story. Unfortunately, most reporters are now under a real handicap because most stuff breaks on the Internet long before it can get to print or even broadcast media.

Sorry I rambled but Mark Kreidler is a good guy. Comparing him to Breton is just wrong on every level I can imagine.

I never said he did. I said he can. Theres a difference and he thankfully has enough class not too.

And, They do have similarities. They are columnists.