upinsmoke
All-Star
It's Not 8M it's something like half of that.
Eric Bledsoe
- Thread starter KingsCitizen
- Start date
It's Not 8M it's something like half of that.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Actually his option would be about 4 mill because he did not not meet starter criteria. I know most of us still think that is too much and he is on his way out of the league, but I am not so convinced that there are not teams out there that would not want him at the 4 mill number, but who knows.
The moment Kings extend qualifying offer to D-Will, they exchange cap space of $8.5 million and Room Exception ($5.7 million over 2 years, which fits Casspi very well) for MLE (3 or 4 years starting with $5.8 million).
Of course, there's also a problem of D-Will needing to accept (not a guarantee, if someone offers him 3 years with $2.5 million per), which will happen after July, 9th at the earliest, and then someone promises him good contract, if he waits a little...
Deals that depend on deals that may or may not happen after July, 1st are non-starters on draft night.
P.S. This whole Bledsoe for a pick started after Chad Ford answered the question in his chat. Phoenix is not trading him.
P.S.2 Curiously Bledsoe's defense really dropped after getting paid.
Of course, there's also a problem of D-Will needing to accept (not a guarantee, if someone offers him 3 years with $2.5 million per), which will happen after July, 9th at the earliest, and then someone promises him good contract, if he waits a little...
Deals that depend on deals that may or may not happen after July, 1st are non-starters on draft night.
P.S. This whole Bledsoe for a pick started after Chad Ford answered the question in his chat. Phoenix is not trading him.
P.S.2 Curiously Bledsoe's defense really dropped after getting paid.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Maybe not so curiously...
ParniValjak
All-Star
I have really liked Bledsoe for a couple of seasons now but I doubt Kings have any interest there. He is not a great passer and doesn't address our need to cut down on the turnovers.
Personally, I am more than happy to roll with DMC, Gay and Bledsoe going forward. In fact I wanted to do it last offseason but the hierarchy did not appear to have any semblance of interest in considering it.
Personally, I am more than happy to roll with DMC, Gay and Bledsoe going forward. In fact I wanted to do it last offseason but the hierarchy did not appear to have any semblance of interest in considering it.
twslam07
All-Star
I'm not really in favor of bringing aboard Bledsoe, but I wouldn't be too upset if we brought him in.
He is a really good defender at PG when he tries (easily top 3 in my book), an elite rebounder for his position, and he does a fantastic job at penetrating and getting into the lane. However, his high usage, lack of shooting, and injury risk make me question the move.
With Cousins, Gay, and Bledsoe in your starting lineup, you have 3 high usage players again. Are players going to be willing to sacrifice their stats for the good of the team? It's possible, but still an unknown. We don't want to get in a position where we are paying a lot of money for talent, but a lot of that talent is being overlapped (thus hidden) by other players. Therfore, we're not maximizing the amount of talent we actually paid for.
We were already one of the worst three point shooting teams last year. Swapping out Collison with Bledsoe would only make that worse. Depending on who we end up with at the 4, our spacing could be very bad. Let's say we go another year with Thompson as the starting PF. A Bledsoe, McLemore, Gay, Thompson, & Cousins lineup is going to come to find that the paint is very, very crowded. When Gay is your 2nd best 3pt threat on the floor, you're going to have problems.
Lastly, there is the threat of injury. He's played in 81% of possible games over his career. As a comparison, Gay has played in 90%, Cousins has played in 89%, and Collison has played in 88%. 81% isn't awful, but it's low enough to be concerned. 81% equates to 67 games a season. If we have Bledsoe on this team, we better have a solid backup PG because, more often than not, he's going to end up missing time with an injury during the season, and a 10-15 stretch of him being out can be the difference in making or missing the playoffs.
I do think there is the possibility that bringing aboard Bledsoe will help us make the playoffs, but the fit makes me question how deep we would be able to go with this core in place. To move forward in the playoffs, ultimately, I think the Kings would have to move either Gay or Bledsoe. Considering our team is already setup with Gay and no Bledsoe, I consider this deal a trade that takes us one step forward, but the path we chose to take that step is limited.
With Cousins and Gay on this team, there are only a few PGs I would take over the value and fit that Collison brings (not including superstars because it's pointless): Lillard, Lowry, Knight (depending on how much he gets paid this summer), & Conley. Conley would be my first choice of the bunch as I think he is the best fit with our current core.
Knight is an interesting player. He brings 3pt shooting and defense with some ball handling and playmaking. I wouldn't be upset to have both Knight & Collison to man the PG spot for the entire game. You could even swing Knight to SG for part of the game. If McLemore takes another step forward as a defender and 3pt shooter, a 3 guard rotation of Collison, Knight, & McLemore could be very effective and cost efficient. Then you either add a veteran SG or have Stauskas absorb the leftover 4th guard minutes. The big question is, how much would it take to pry Knight away from Phoenix?
He is a really good defender at PG when he tries (easily top 3 in my book), an elite rebounder for his position, and he does a fantastic job at penetrating and getting into the lane. However, his high usage, lack of shooting, and injury risk make me question the move.
With Cousins, Gay, and Bledsoe in your starting lineup, you have 3 high usage players again. Are players going to be willing to sacrifice their stats for the good of the team? It's possible, but still an unknown. We don't want to get in a position where we are paying a lot of money for talent, but a lot of that talent is being overlapped (thus hidden) by other players. Therfore, we're not maximizing the amount of talent we actually paid for.
We were already one of the worst three point shooting teams last year. Swapping out Collison with Bledsoe would only make that worse. Depending on who we end up with at the 4, our spacing could be very bad. Let's say we go another year with Thompson as the starting PF. A Bledsoe, McLemore, Gay, Thompson, & Cousins lineup is going to come to find that the paint is very, very crowded. When Gay is your 2nd best 3pt threat on the floor, you're going to have problems.
Lastly, there is the threat of injury. He's played in 81% of possible games over his career. As a comparison, Gay has played in 90%, Cousins has played in 89%, and Collison has played in 88%. 81% isn't awful, but it's low enough to be concerned. 81% equates to 67 games a season. If we have Bledsoe on this team, we better have a solid backup PG because, more often than not, he's going to end up missing time with an injury during the season, and a 10-15 stretch of him being out can be the difference in making or missing the playoffs.
I do think there is the possibility that bringing aboard Bledsoe will help us make the playoffs, but the fit makes me question how deep we would be able to go with this core in place. To move forward in the playoffs, ultimately, I think the Kings would have to move either Gay or Bledsoe. Considering our team is already setup with Gay and no Bledsoe, I consider this deal a trade that takes us one step forward, but the path we chose to take that step is limited.
With Cousins and Gay on this team, there are only a few PGs I would take over the value and fit that Collison brings (not including superstars because it's pointless): Lillard, Lowry, Knight (depending on how much he gets paid this summer), & Conley. Conley would be my first choice of the bunch as I think he is the best fit with our current core.
Knight is an interesting player. He brings 3pt shooting and defense with some ball handling and playmaking. I wouldn't be upset to have both Knight & Collison to man the PG spot for the entire game. You could even swing Knight to SG for part of the game. If McLemore takes another step forward as a defender and 3pt shooter, a 3 guard rotation of Collison, Knight, & McLemore could be very effective and cost efficient. Then you either add a veteran SG or have Stauskas absorb the leftover 4th guard minutes. The big question is, how much would it take to pry Knight away from Phoenix?
I love it. I do 6+DC+contract for Bledsoe+13 anyday of the week. As for the injury risk, he just got done playing 81 games last season. So its not like we're taking on recently damaged goods. Bledsoe is an elite penetrator, an improving playmaker and one of the best defensive/rebounding PG's in the NBA. And still just 25 years old.
Another not so little motivation for doing a deal like this is the Bledsoe-Cousins, Kentucky connection and their friendship. Bringing in one of Boogie's buddies could go a long way in a couple years when we're looking to ink him to a new deal.
Another not so little motivation for doing a deal like this is the Bledsoe-Cousins, Kentucky connection and their friendship. Bringing in one of Boogie's buddies could go a long way in a couple years when we're looking to ink him to a new deal.
randymoss1881
Starter
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/06/dangling-bledsoe-talks.html
I really hope this is why we worked out kiminsky and Decker.
I really hope this is why we worked out kiminsky and Decker.
twslam07
All-Star
In 2016/2017, his deal would be the same as a $10.5 mil/year deal under the current cap. In 2017/2018, his deal would be the same as a $9 mil/year deal under the current cap. It definitely looks like an attractive deal when you look at his skillset in a vacuum.
twslam07
All-Star
It would make things rather difficult for the remaining roster to keep Collison in such a deal. Let's just say we were to trade Landry & #6 for Bledsoe & #13. That only leaves us with $2.05 mil in cap space with this roster:
PG - Bledsoe/Collison/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins
I think you could sign someone like Aldrich for the remaining $2 mil to backup Cousins and you could use the room exception on Casspi to bring him back, but you would really, really have to hit with #13 to bring in a player who can give you valuable minutes at PF. I would not be thrilled going into the season with these as the bigs I put next to Cousins: Thompson/Aldrich/#13/Moreland.
If the Suns think they are giving up too much value in that trade and want to drop the 13th pick, the Kings would have a little more cap space ($3.3 mil), but it would be very difficult to try and find quality 3rd and 4th bigs with $3.3 mil in cap space and veteran minimum deals.
In that case, maybe we wanted to try and move Thompson as well (Landry, Thompson, & #6 for Bledsoe). In this case, the Kings would have $9.2 mil in cap space with the roster below:
PG - Bledsoe/Collison/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Moreland
C - Cousins
Again, is $9.2 mil cap space enough to find quality 2nd, 3rd, and 4th bigs? I'm not so sure.
I don't know that it's possible, but obviously the Kings need a stronger PG rotation. Miller was definitely an improvement over Sessions but that's not saying much since the Kings bench through the first half or so of the season was literally historically bad and Ramon was a big part of that.
twslam07
All-Star
I think an interesting idea would be to make a three team deal with Phoenix and Chicago.
Bulls Get: Darren Collison & Nik Stauskas
Bulls Give: Taj Gibson, Bulls' 2015 22nd pick, Kings 2016 1st round pick (top 10 protected)
PG - Rose/Collison/Hinrich
SG - Butler/Stauskas/Moore
SF - Snell/McDermott
PF - Gasol/Mirotic/Bairstow
C - Noah
Bulls do this to create space for Mirotic to see more floor time while obtaining one of the best value PGs that doesn't hurt their cap, but is an excellent backup to an injury prone Rose. They also get Stauskas that gives them three young wings to develop (Stauskas, Snell, & McDermott). With Butler as the other wing, they should have plenty of depth and versatility from the wing spot for many years.
Suns Get: Carl Landry, Jason Thompson, Kings' 2015 6th pick, Bulls' 2015 22nd pick, Kings' 2016 1st round pick (top 3 protected)
Suns Give: Eric Bledsoe
PG - Knight/Goodwin/McNeal
SG - Tucker/Bullock
SF - Morris/Warren/Granger
PF - Morris/Landry
C - Len/Thompson
**#6, #13, #22, & #44
The Suns make the deal to rebuild and grab three 1st round picks (one of them being a top 6 pick) for their best player.
Kings Get: Eric Bledsoe & Taj Gibson
Kings Give: Carl Landry, Jason Thompson, Darren Collison, Nik Stauskas, Kings' 2015 6th pick, & Kings' 2016 1st round pick (protection lowered to top 3)
PG - Bledsoe/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore
SF - Gay
PF - Gibson/Moreland
C - Cousins
The Kings do this to grab some win now pieces for their youth (Stauskas), picks (#6 and 2016 1st), and overpaid contracts (Landry & Thompson). If the Kings waived Stockton, they would have ~$8.4 mil in cap space remaining (factoring in the undrafted rookie FA cap holds). I would try to sign CJ Watson to a $4 mil/2 years deal, Cole Aldrich to a $6 mil/3 years deal, & Belinelli/Afflalo for $11 mil/2 years deal. That should take up the rest of the cap room we have. From there, you sign Casspi to the room exception and sign Andre Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, Drew Gooden, & Reggie Evans to a veteran minimum deals.
PG - Bledsoe/Watson/Miller/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Afflalo
SF - Gay/Casspi/Turkoglu
PF - Gibson/Gooden/Evans/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich
Bulls Get: Darren Collison & Nik Stauskas
Bulls Give: Taj Gibson, Bulls' 2015 22nd pick, Kings 2016 1st round pick (top 10 protected)
PG - Rose/Collison/Hinrich
SG - Butler/Stauskas/Moore
SF - Snell/McDermott
PF - Gasol/Mirotic/Bairstow
C - Noah
Bulls do this to create space for Mirotic to see more floor time while obtaining one of the best value PGs that doesn't hurt their cap, but is an excellent backup to an injury prone Rose. They also get Stauskas that gives them three young wings to develop (Stauskas, Snell, & McDermott). With Butler as the other wing, they should have plenty of depth and versatility from the wing spot for many years.
Suns Get: Carl Landry, Jason Thompson, Kings' 2015 6th pick, Bulls' 2015 22nd pick, Kings' 2016 1st round pick (top 3 protected)
Suns Give: Eric Bledsoe
PG - Knight/Goodwin/McNeal
SG - Tucker/Bullock
SF - Morris/Warren/Granger
PF - Morris/Landry
C - Len/Thompson
**#6, #13, #22, & #44
The Suns make the deal to rebuild and grab three 1st round picks (one of them being a top 6 pick) for their best player.
Kings Get: Eric Bledsoe & Taj Gibson
Kings Give: Carl Landry, Jason Thompson, Darren Collison, Nik Stauskas, Kings' 2015 6th pick, & Kings' 2016 1st round pick (protection lowered to top 3)
PG - Bledsoe/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore
SF - Gay
PF - Gibson/Moreland
C - Cousins
The Kings do this to grab some win now pieces for their youth (Stauskas), picks (#6 and 2016 1st), and overpaid contracts (Landry & Thompson). If the Kings waived Stockton, they would have ~$8.4 mil in cap space remaining (factoring in the undrafted rookie FA cap holds). I would try to sign CJ Watson to a $4 mil/2 years deal, Cole Aldrich to a $6 mil/3 years deal, & Belinelli/Afflalo for $11 mil/2 years deal. That should take up the rest of the cap room we have. From there, you sign Casspi to the room exception and sign Andre Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, Drew Gooden, & Reggie Evans to a veteran minimum deals.
PG - Bledsoe/Watson/Miller/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Afflalo
SF - Gay/Casspi/Turkoglu
PF - Gibson/Gooden/Evans/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich
itzcoatl
Bench
I'm not too high on Taj due to his recent ankle surgery. He will be out for four months, supposedly.
http://www.si.com/nba/2015/06/19/taj-gibson-bulls-ankle-surgery-chicago-injury
Nikolizzle
G-League
How about Collison, Thompson, McCallum and Stauskas/McLemore (Although I don't like giving up either of them) for Bledsoe, Reggie Bullock & 13?
Phoenix moves Bledsoe, gets a PG AND a backup, and a do-it-all PF/C in Thompson along with a promising young SG.
We'd clear Thomspon's contract, we can draft whoever we like at 6 (Especially if we want Mario), get Bledsoe and could draft Payne, Dekker, or Kamisky at 13.
Phoenix moves Bledsoe, gets a PG AND a backup, and a do-it-all PF/C in Thompson along with a promising young SG.
We'd clear Thomspon's contract, we can draft whoever we like at 6 (Especially if we want Mario), get Bledsoe and could draft Payne, Dekker, or Kamisky at 13.
The Suns wouldn't do that deal without the 6th pick. That's asking a lot of them. Bledsoe is a very good player.
twslam07
All-Star
So he'll be fully recovered a couple weeks before opening day. Perfect.
itzcoatl
Bench
A guy who is 29 and getting a ligament repaired makes me a little nervous. If they're cutting out parts of the ligament, it won't have the same strength and will be more injury prone. There's also removal of bone spurs which are chronic degenerative changes.
Nikolizzle
G-League
Haha yeah I know. A fan can dream though!
twslam07
All-Star
I would assume he would be in better shape after his recovery compared to how he was playing to end the season. If not, why have the surgery?
This would amount to the Kings trading their first round pick in back to back years which is not allowed under the CBA. Even though Chicago holds the pick in 2016 the fact that it MIGHT be retained by the Kings may well make it against the rules to trade though obviously I'm not an expert on the NBA's collective bargaining agreement.
twslam07
All-Star
Easily avoided by making the 6th pick for the Suns...
randymoss1881
Starter
Guys stop it if we get Bledsoe it's gonna be with the 6 pick. That pick will be attached to Collison or Ben.
itzcoatl
Bench
Whatever pain he is experiencing will be gone. If he is having weakness or instability it would be patched up. The issue more is that the structural integrity of the ankle is compromised at that point. I'm speculating to a fairly big degree since I obviously havent seen the medical records or anything. But the more ligament they cut out the weaker the ankle will be. That will depend on what the surgeon finds when he actually gets in there.
After the pick is made on Thursday it's no longer a "future pick" so we can trade it. We could, in principle, pick for the Suns in this scenario and then pull the trigger after making the pick.
Iced Espresso
Starter
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...sky-wisconsin-dangelo-russell-emmanuel-mudiay
The Suns had talks with the Knicks about dealing the fourth pick for point guard Eric Bledsoe and the No. 13 pick, but Phoenix has not been limited to the Knicks in that regard. The Suns have been dangling Bledsoe in trade offers this offseason and are likely to continue to do so after the draft if Bledsoe is not moved this week, sources confirmed.
Getting the 13 back may not be possible with what we want to send out.
But looking like they are considering it.
I'm guessing they want to avoid the treadmill and hope to add a "franchise" guy, or at least continue development and may be willing to move a good but expensive player to do so.
The Suns had talks with the Knicks about dealing the fourth pick for point guard Eric Bledsoe and the No. 13 pick, but Phoenix has not been limited to the Knicks in that regard. The Suns have been dangling Bledsoe in trade offers this offseason and are likely to continue to do so after the draft if Bledsoe is not moved this week, sources confirmed.
Getting the 13 back may not be possible with what we want to send out.
But looking like they are considering it.
I'm guessing they want to avoid the treadmill and hope to add a "franchise" guy, or at least continue development and may be willing to move a good but expensive player to do so.
macadocious
Starter
I don't put a lo of credence into these reports these days, but apparently we are interested in Bledsoe.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...ix-suns?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Does this work salary wise (No idea if they would go for it - thoughts cutting cost, getting Nik and shortening terms of outflow)
Bledsoe - 13,500,000
for
Landry 6,750,000
Stuskas - 2,869,440
McCalum - 947,276
Total - 10,5667,716
But I guess we don't even technically have to send them that much, because we can take on salary.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...ix-suns?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Does this work salary wise (No idea if they would go for it - thoughts cutting cost, getting Nik and shortening terms of outflow)
Bledsoe - 13,500,000
for
Landry 6,750,000
Stuskas - 2,869,440
McCalum - 947,276
Total - 10,5667,716
But I guess we don't even technically have to send them that much, because we can take on salary.
I think to get Bledsoe, it will take Gay as one angle.
The only other angle would be us sending back Ben and Nik and maybe a Landry contract. In that scenario, we play Collison and Bledsoe together and then work on obtaining another vet SG from FA.
If you trade Gay, you are going to have to fill in your SF spot, I'd definitely sign Casspi to small contract and then go after a swingman.
It's all doable but at what cost?
The only other angle would be us sending back Ben and Nik and maybe a Landry contract. In that scenario, we play Collison and Bledsoe together and then work on obtaining another vet SG from FA.
If you trade Gay, you are going to have to fill in your SF spot, I'd definitely sign Casspi to small contract and then go after a swingman.
It's all doable but at what cost?
John Galt
Starter
I don't see how you get the Suns to pick up the phone unless Gay is involved.
But... if I'm missing something - if Ben & Nik & Landry are not just garbage scraps, then what the hell it is a no-brainer for us. But I think it is a dream scenario. On the other hand, we did swindle Toronto with a similar bunch of junk from the parts drawer and they came out of it ok - so maybe it can happen here too. Maybe our two latest lottery picks and a terrible contract ARE enough. I'll be shocked tho
But... if I'm missing something - if Ben & Nik & Landry are not just garbage scraps, then what the hell it is a no-brainer for us. But I think it is a dream scenario. On the other hand, we did swindle Toronto with a similar bunch of junk from the parts drawer and they came out of it ok - so maybe it can happen here too. Maybe our two latest lottery picks and a terrible contract ARE enough. I'll be shocked tho
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