J
jdbraver
Guest
How does Drummonds compare to Mutombo when he came into the league?
This got me interested on Drummond.Physically Drummond will probably look like sophomore Howard by draft time.
This got me interested on Drummond.
Does he really have the physical tools, mobility, and raw talent to be a very good shot-blocker like Ibaka or Ben Wallace if he is motivated enough?
If you watch his HS highlights Drummond never played with his back to the basket. He was asked to do only that in UConn.
People should watch Roy Hibbert as a freshman.
This got me interested on Drummond.
Does he really have the physical tools, mobility, and raw talent to be a very good shot-blocker like Ibaka or Ben Wallace if he is motivated enough?
UCONN has a bad history of developing big men. When Drummond decided to go there, I though it was a bad decision. All they ask of their big men to stand in the paint, guard the basket, and rebound. Unfortunately, as Thabeet found out, they have a 3 second rule in the NBA and gosh by golly, the opposing big man has the gall to actually go out to 18 feet from the basket, and they want me to guard him out there.
OK, I'm exaggerating a little. But in a nutshell, Drummond has little in the way of post skills. Fundamentally he's a poor rebounder. He was still able to rebound in college just by being more athletic and bigger than the opposition. That won't work against players in the NBA. I know that everyone wants to overlook his flaws. But folks, he's a very risky pick. If I was drafting 15th, then I'd probably grap him. But not at five, unless my options were so bad I didn't have choice.
Comparing Drummond to Mutombo probably isn't fair to Drummond. Mutombo was a four year player at Georgetown, which by the way, does have a history of developing big men. Players like Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Othella Harrington, and of late, Roy Hibbert spring to mind. Mutombo made the all star team his rookie year, and was already 25 years old. He knew how to play the game. And of course thats the point. Drummond doesn't! Neither did Thabeet. Neither did Whiteside. Doesn't mean he can't, or won't learn. But doesn't mean he will either.
If you all love Drummond, then why preytell don't you love Whiteside? Whiteside blocked more shots in college than Drummond. Whiteside is 6'11", and a very good athlete. The only difference, other than about 40 pounds, is that you already know what Whiteside can do, and Drummond is the nicely wrapped surprise package. He's still a mystery, so that makes him OK. Well good luck with that! By the way, this isn't directed at you Gilles.
How does Drummonds compare to Mutombo when he came into the league?
From what I've seen of the Drummond highlights he's a lot quicker than Whiteside. Whiteside seems really slow moving, not his jumping for blocked shots though.
I posted this over in another Drummond thread. This was his final high school highlight vid form a year ago just after he had declared for UConn. Look anything like Mutumbo to you?
There is a bit of mystery reconciling that Drummond above with the Drummond of freshman year at UConn. Either way he's nowhere near as gigantic as Mutumbo, nor a once in a generation shotblocking talent. But the claims that he's some sort of untalented limited scrub pale in the face of vids like that. Very few men his size can do those things. The great question I want to know is why he didn't last year. Coaching? Weight? Depression? Drinking/Drugs? Motivation? System? Drummond is going to get some GM in hot water one way or the other. Either you are going to be the idiot who selected him, or you are going to be the idiot who passed on him for some mediocrity. What I can say, is that if we actually ever do plan to get good one of these days, we may never have another chance to draft one of these guys until Cousins is done or gone -- 6'11" physical freaks don't slip to the 20s in the draft. Rem during Dwight's rookie year we played them and I said in a grades thread how come we never get a chance to draft one of these guys. Well, we might here. But whatever he is, its not Deke. Not as enormous a roadblock, but far more fluid and skilled.
It's OK. I just want my brownie in 5 years when Drummond is major piece of a contender and Beal, MKG and Jeff Taylor are nice roleplayers.UCONN has a bad history of developing big men. When Drummond decided to go there, I though it was a bad decision. All they ask of their big men to stand in the paint, guard the basket, and rebound. Unfortunately, as Thabeet found out, they have a 3 second rule in the NBA and gosh by golly, the opposing big man has the gall to actually go out to 18 feet from the basket, and they want me to guard him out there.
OK, I'm exaggerating a little. But in a nutshell, Drummond has little in the way of post skills. Fundamentally he's a poor rebounder. He was still able to rebound in college just by being more athletic and bigger than the opposition. That won't work against players in the NBA. I know that everyone wants to overlook his flaws. But folks, he's a very risky pick. If I was drafting 15th, then I'd probably grap him. But not at five, unless my options were so bad I didn't have choice.
Comparing Drummond to Mutombo probably isn't fair to Drummond. Mutombo was a four year player at Georgetown, which by the way, does have a history of developing big men. Players like Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Othella Harrington, and of late, Roy Hibbert spring to mind. Mutombo made the all star team his rookie year, and was already 25 years old. He knew how to play the game. And of course thats the point. Drummond doesn't! Neither did Thabeet. Neither did Whiteside. Doesn't mean he can't, or won't learn. But doesn't mean he will either.
If you all love Drummond, then why preytell don't you love Whiteside? Whiteside blocked more shots in college than Drummond. Whiteside is 6'11", and a very good athlete. The only difference, other than about 40 pounds, is that you already know what Whiteside can do, and Drummond is the nicely wrapped surprise package. He's still a mystery, so that makes him OK. Well good luck with that! By the way, this isn't directed at you Gilles.
UCONN has a bad history of developing big men. When Drummond decided to go there, I though it was a bad decision. All they ask of their big men to stand in the paint, guard the basket, and rebound. Unfortunately, as Thabeet found out, they have a 3 second rule in the NBA and gosh by golly, the opposing big man has the gall to actually go out to 18 feet from the basket, and they want me to guard him out there.
OK, I'm exaggerating a little. But in a nutshell, Drummond has little in the way of post skills. Fundamentally he's a poor rebounder. He was still able to rebound in college just by being more athletic and bigger than the opposition. That won't work against players in the NBA. I know that everyone wants to overlook his flaws. But folks, he's a very risky pick. If I was drafting 15th, then I'd probably grap him. But not at five, unless my options were so bad I didn't have choice.
Comparing Drummond to Mutombo probably isn't fair to Drummond. Mutombo was a four year player at Georgetown, which by the way, does have a history of developing big men. Players like Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Othella Harrington, and of late, Roy Hibbert spring to mind. Mutombo made the all star team his rookie year, and was already 25 years old. He knew how to play the game. And of course thats the point. Drummond doesn't! Neither did Thabeet. Neither did Whiteside. Doesn't mean he can't, or won't learn. But doesn't mean he will either.
If you all love Drummond, then why preytell don't you love Whiteside? Whiteside blocked more shots in college than Drummond. Whiteside is 6'11", and a very good athlete. The only difference, other than about 40 pounds, is that you already know what Whiteside can do, and Drummond is the nicely wrapped surprise package. He's still a mystery, so that makes him OK. Well good luck with that! By the way, this isn't directed at you Gilles.
It's OK. I just want my brownie in 5 years when Drummond is major piece of a contender and Beal, MKG and Jeff Taylor are nice roleplayers.![]()
I'll use my greats Aunts recipe. Yum Yum! Hey, you could be right! Of course, We could end up with Beal, MKG and Jeff Taylor being good role players and Drummond in the D-league. Drummond is certainly a polarizing and intriguing player. Lets put it this way, if we end up drafting him, I pray your right, and I'll gladly bake you some brownies.
First, I know your intelligent enough to know that it was a highlight video. You seldom see a lowlight video, and believe me, you could make one with Drummond. You didn't see how many times he turned the ball over, or got the ball stolen while trying to dribble in a crowd. No one has ever denyed his abilities, its his motivation, and feel for the game they question. And I don't know of one scout that I follow, or GM that I've heard, that doesn't worry about the same things with Drummond. I can't think of one person that considers him a can't miss prospect. And he should be!! I only saw him play in three highschool games, two of which were all star type games. In all three, he didn't live up to expectations. In one of the all star games he was pulled and put on the bench for being a spectator on the floor. Then in the second half, he came out and just dominated. But why didn't he do that from the get go? Thats the question...
Your right about being a GM's nightmare. I really doubt any of them want to have to decide whether to take a gamble of not. A player his size, with his kiind of athletic ability comes around every 20 years or so. He's that rare. Its a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation. Think what Cousins could do with Drummonds body and athletic ability.
As was stated earlier, UCONN does not develop their big men to play in the post on offense. They do specialize in rebounding and shot blocking or at least put a decent effort forward. Look at Okafor, Thabeet, Drummond. The players keep coming into the NBA more raw. Drummond was not that great at UCONN. If you watched UCONN bball as a neutral observer, you would never think Drummond would be going to the NBA since he was so non-existent.
The history is more feeble than that, don't forget Hilton Armstrong and Josh Boone.
Or Travis Knight.
See I have a theory. And it may be entirely wrong, but its one flexible enough to encompass some inexplicables. Theory could be this: UConn is GREAT at developing SGs and SFs. Great at it. One of the best. Ray Allen, Rudy Gay, Rip Hamilton, Caron Butler, Ben Gordon etc. Very few college programs can match that list in the last 20 years. But that's what its system is built around, that's where its recruiting is focused.
Meanwhile, its bigs have usually been afterthoughts. Modestly taletned types brought in to defend the paint as they can. The only one who ever became a significant part of the offense was Okafor. Most of them did not really get better over their years either. here are links to the college careers of each of the NBA bigs of the last 10-12 years out of UConn:
Emeka Okafor:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/connecticut/emeka-okafor/2001-2002
Hilton Armstrong:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/connecticut/hilton-armstrong/2005-2006
Josh Boone:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/connecticut/josh-boone/2005-2006
Jake Voskuhl:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/connecticut/jake-voskuhl/1999-2000
Hasheem Thabeet:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/connecticut/hasheem-thabeet/2008-2009
You may note that NONE of them had impressive rookie seasons -- in fact Drummond has better numbers than any. And most barely improved. They were all bad FT shooters. Okafor in fact got worse every year and shot 51% his final season. So question 1) are UConn bigs getting attention/coaching? and 2) to the degree they are, are they basically just told to stay out of the way and occasionally back into the paint while the guards do their thing?
All of which leads me to possible theory: UConn might have been about the last place ready or able to nurture a uniquely talented big man out of high school. They have no history of it. And furthermore, people say Drummond played "in position" in college. What if he didn't? What if he was made into a college center, told to stay out of the way and play with his back to the hoop as a defensive center...when all along what he really si is a mobile facebook PF? Those old vids of him make that suggestion. What happens to a guy when he is told to just back into the paint and post up and maybe he will get a touch if he is lucky, if in fact his game is to have the ball from the elbow and drive or make a pass with it?
Now my theory does not have to be correct. But what about the list of Okafor, Armstrong, Boone, Voskuhl, Thabeet etc. suggests that Connecticut would ahve any experience with or use for a major frontcourt talent if one happend to come through their system?
And you watch enough college basketball to know that that wasn't the issue with Drummond this year. Its not a question of whether he turned it over or not, its a question of him never even appearing to try to flash that talent. If he had played his frosh year at UConn and been facing people up and crossing them over and then throwing up a wild shot or behind the back pass for a turnover or something, then ok, you know what you are dealing with. Understand the talent, understand the problem. He didn't. You CGI on another face onto the UConn Drumond and there is no way in hell you would ever recognize his game as the same thing that is in that video.
And all of that leads ot these stupid comparisons to DeAndre Jordan and whatnot. Which are ridiculous. Jordan can NOT in any way do the things Drummond was flashing there. Few bigs can. A short list of other bigs who CAN'T do them would include Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Tyson Chandler, Marcin Gortat, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bynum, Dwight Howard, and basically any other center in the entire league not named Cousins. Maybe Nene on his best day, but not even there. That's not a question of don't or choose not to, or don't think its a smart play. Its a question of simply cannot. Do not have the talent to do that any more than I do.
And so yeah 6'11" freak athlete, but that's not the mystery with Drummond. The mystery of his freshman year is given the skills package he flashed, a skills package, inefficient or not, that possibly no center outside of Sacramento possesses, what happened to it? He didn't try to use it and fail in college. He didn't even try to use it. Or was told not to. Or both.
If the UConn Drummond is DeAndre Jordan -- who it should be noted we all wanted last summer before his contract, lest the people throwing that name around as a slur go too far -- the high school Drummond is entirely a different animal. The location of that animal is absolutely critical to his value in this draft. He never showed up at UConn. If he shows up in the pros whoever gets him might have grabbed the best player in the draft. I want to hear form his moouth what happened, and see first hand if that guy is still in there. Noted before Gerald Wallace had a similarly disastrous rookie season in college where he didn't look anything like the player that came before or after. He turned out all right.
I don't get it.. If we want a big to play some (a little in Duummond's case) defense block a shot here and there and play absolutely no offense why not draft a guy later in the first round? There are players later on in the first round that play much better defense than Drummond, and some people here are eying him as like he's a defensive savior that's going to come in and be a Mutumbo or a Howard... Drummond's MAX is going to be DeAndre Jordan (who I wanted the Kings to bring in), and his minimum is out of the league in a couple years. Mostl likely he will end up somewhere in the middle.
The Kings draft him. He never gets much time off the bench and we trade him away to another team who does not want him after giving him a team option 4th year but then cuts ties after that. He might sign a couple camp contacts here and there but he won't see any meaningful time on a good team.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's how I see it going if the Kings take him. The guy sucks and he's nowhere near what people think he is here. JT>>>>Drummond and I don't even want JT starting because he's so inconsistent.
Others may play better defense than Drummond at this point but they don't have Drummonds physical potenital. Chuck Hayes is theoretically good at defense but being technically sound doesn't always cut it in the NBA, hence Dwight being the one winning the accolades and awards.
The only real big Drummond faced that looked like potential NBA level defensive starter was Fab Melo on arguably second best (with Melo they could even be placed over Kentucky) team in the country full of athletic players. Drummond showed up for those 3 occasions: turning those 10p+7.6r+2.7bl(28.4mpg) into 14.7p+10.3r(6 offensive rebounds per)+2.7bl.(same 28mpg).
P.S. Interestingly Fab Melo shot 36% from charity stripe his freshman year. This past season? 63.3%!