I've never participated nor will I ever participate in Twitter or Facebook. If we didn't draft Cauley-Stein, if he we instead drafted Mudiay and we just watched the same game, wouldn't you be breathing a sigh of relief after the 7 footer we almost drafted got out-rebounded by David Stockton? Wouldn't you be talking up Mudiay's potential? I understand people seeing what they want to see, but I hardly think it's fair to equate any and all criticism of Cauley-Stein with shameful self-promotion.
Draft remorse: WCS over ____________(split)
- Thread starter kingjatt
- Start date
I don't know where to begin. First, I was at the game, and I thought Mudiay played very well. But to me, that has nothing to do with WCS. Two different players playing under different conditions. Mudiay is a PG, and that means in summer league he'll have the ball in his hands most of the time he's on the court. Which translates into many opportunities to look good. WCS is a big, which means he's at the mercy of his PG as to how much he'll touch the ball. I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Kings don't really have a legit PG on the team. I've yet to see WCS get one good lob so far this summer. Did anyone see how many times WCS was the first one down the court, and for a moment, he was open under or near the basket, but never got the pass.
I'm not going to excuse his rebounding, but when he's being used the way he is, he'll never be a great rebounder. What rebounds he'll get will be mostly offensive rebounds. He plays too far away from the basket on defense to be a good defensive rebounder. Two different times on defense, he guarded four different players on the perimeter. In one sequence, Mudiay in a switch, had a chance to go one on one with WCS, and passed. WCS is going to bring something to the team that it has desperately needed for a long time. And that has nothing to do with Mudiay. He had a good game, but it's summer league folks. I wouldn't anoint him a superstar just yet. I know those of you that wanted to draft Mudiay are looking for any opportunity to find fault with WCS. I won't tell you what I think of that. But it would be nice if you supported him instead. He's on your team and Mudiay isn't. And comparing the two players at this point in time, is pure nonsense.
I'm not going to excuse his rebounding, but when he's being used the way he is, he'll never be a great rebounder. What rebounds he'll get will be mostly offensive rebounds. He plays too far away from the basket on defense to be a good defensive rebounder. Two different times on defense, he guarded four different players on the perimeter. In one sequence, Mudiay in a switch, had a chance to go one on one with WCS, and passed. WCS is going to bring something to the team that it has desperately needed for a long time. And that has nothing to do with Mudiay. He had a good game, but it's summer league folks. I wouldn't anoint him a superstar just yet. I know those of you that wanted to draft Mudiay are looking for any opportunity to find fault with WCS. I won't tell you what I think of that. But it would be nice if you supported him instead. He's on your team and Mudiay isn't. And comparing the two players at this point in time, is pure nonsense.
Mudiay is going to be a very good player and I have said repeatedly that the Kings should have picked him over WCS. I see no need to trash Mudiay just because. The guy is the size of a SG, with handle and speed to get anywhere he wants on the floor, and the vision to run a team. He is going to be good, despite his flaws.
But WCS is just a freak; and the NBA is a league of freaks. So I'm pretty sure he will turn into something good.... just not sure what that will be.
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But WCS is just a freak; and the NBA is a league of freaks. So I'm pretty sure he will turn into something good.... just not sure what that will be.
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Just watched the replay of the game....really like WCS. Comes as advertised. He disrupts the pick and roll for the other team and does it easily. Still would like to see him better on the boards, there was a few opportunities for him to be better. He scored 15 which is a feat in itself as our guard play is not good.
I was on the Mudiay bandwagon and I think he's going to be a good one. That said, I was good with the WCS pick as well. Sac needed a guy like him and he's going to pay off.
Watching all these SL games, most of the rookies are showing why they got picked and they also show some of the inconsistencies. Watched Bobby Portis for Chicago and he looked like a stud on Saturday, a real steal. Comes back with a 1-10 shooting game on Sunday. I think in SL it's wise to keep things in perspective and just look to see if the rookies show their abilities or inabilities......like Jimmer not being able to dribble.
I was on the Mudiay bandwagon and I think he's going to be a good one. That said, I was good with the WCS pick as well. Sac needed a guy like him and he's going to pay off.
Watching all these SL games, most of the rookies are showing why they got picked and they also show some of the inconsistencies. Watched Bobby Portis for Chicago and he looked like a stud on Saturday, a real steal. Comes back with a 1-10 shooting game on Sunday. I think in SL it's wise to keep things in perspective and just look to see if the rookies show their abilities or inabilities......like Jimmer not being able to dribble.
As a guy who wanted to draft Mudiay, I think your points are valid about how summer league is run by guards. I was never against WCS, I just preferred Mudiay because I thought we needed a PG and it's easier to find a PF in free agency. Especially when you don't need that PF to be a scorer because of Cuz.
That being said, I like WCS and want him to work on his defensive rebounding to make himself a more well rounded player. That's something he can do now as a rookie. Offense can come over time.
Also, we're all supporting the Kings here. I know some people get frustrated when we don't celebrate every player or move for this team. I'm just being honest in my observations when I speak. Whether that observation is positive or negative, it still comes from the same place. My desire for the team to be better.
That being said, I like WCS and want him to work on his defensive rebounding to make himself a more well rounded player. That's something he can do now as a rookie. Offense can come over time.
Also, we're all supporting the Kings here. I know some people get frustrated when we don't celebrate every player or move for this team. I'm just being honest in my observations when I speak. Whether that observation is positive or negative, it still comes from the same place. My desire for the team to be better.
It's going to be a treat listening to this years round of "I told you so's" from you.
You bring a lot of good discussion to the table, but who you think we should have drafted for the last 6 years is irrelevant. You could have pulled names from a hat and picked better than the Kings have the last few years. We have Cauley-Stein so lets talk about Cauley-Stein. If he turns out to be a bust and Mudiay is a star, then go to Vlade and point and tell him that you told him so. It doesn't do any good here considering the fact that none of us made the pick.
You bring a lot of good discussion to the table, but who you think we should have drafted for the last 6 years is irrelevant. You could have pulled names from a hat and picked better than the Kings have the last few years. We have Cauley-Stein so lets talk about Cauley-Stein. If he turns out to be a bust and Mudiay is a star, then go to Vlade and point and tell him that you told him so. It doesn't do any good here considering the fact that none of us made the pick.
I thought WCS looked phenomenal defensively out there, especially on the switches and on the weak side help. Never seen a guy that size, move so quickly. He can make this team elite defensively either as soon as this year or next year. He's going to cover for everyone's mistakes on the defensive end. The whole rebounding thing is not much of an issue because of how much time he spends in the perimeter and on how often he leaks out after the shot goes up. Seems like something they are instructing him to do.
In regards to Mudiay, boy is he impressive. Very under control and some of the kick out passes after penetration, none many in the league can make those kind of passes. Usually summer league showcases guys playing too fast, but never was under the impression that he was ever out of control. He actually looks more impressive than Russell has so far but of course its summer league. His size is also impressive and he KNOWS he's bigger than the player guarding him. Watching him, I have this feeling about him becoming the best player out of this draft.
With that said, I am very happy with WCS, as he has this DPOY vibe to him because of his versatility defensively. When they say he can guard 1-5, I believe it. He's a freak.
In regards to Mudiay, boy is he impressive. Very under control and some of the kick out passes after penetration, none many in the league can make those kind of passes. Usually summer league showcases guys playing too fast, but never was under the impression that he was ever out of control. He actually looks more impressive than Russell has so far but of course its summer league. His size is also impressive and he KNOWS he's bigger than the player guarding him. Watching him, I have this feeling about him becoming the best player out of this draft.
With that said, I am very happy with WCS, as he has this DPOY vibe to him because of his versatility defensively. When they say he can guard 1-5, I believe it. He's a freak.
Wcs is not a great rebounder. We knew that going in. That's not going to be his job. He'll be out forcing missed 3's.
I don't think playing with cousins or Koufos the rebounding will be an issue.
However, the guy can guard anyone on earth and looked to me flat out faster than even mudiay. He forced misses, got his hands on passes, did everything you'd expect a superstar defender to do. In that sense, I thought he was very impressive. He's a 7 footer that can track anyone. I've really never seen anyone like that. KG maybe?
He has very specific skills. He's not Demarcus. But he has very elite potential on defense. And on lobs, which on this summer team is going to be tough to show considering the dearth of nba quality guards (sorry Stockton).
Good for mudiay. He had a nice game. It has no relevance to WCS.
Maybe passing on mudiay was a mistake, maybe it wasn't. There's no evidence either way 2 games into summer league.
Any argument otherwise is pure applesauce.
I don't think playing with cousins or Koufos the rebounding will be an issue.
However, the guy can guard anyone on earth and looked to me flat out faster than even mudiay. He forced misses, got his hands on passes, did everything you'd expect a superstar defender to do. In that sense, I thought he was very impressive. He's a 7 footer that can track anyone. I've really never seen anyone like that. KG maybe?
He has very specific skills. He's not Demarcus. But he has very elite potential on defense. And on lobs, which on this summer team is going to be tough to show considering the dearth of nba quality guards (sorry Stockton).
Good for mudiay. He had a nice game. It has no relevance to WCS.
Maybe passing on mudiay was a mistake, maybe it wasn't. There's no evidence either way 2 games into summer league.
Any argument otherwise is pure applesauce.
One last thought on this subject. Every year there's someone else we should have drafted, and many times it's warranted. In 2012 we should have drafted Damian Lillard. In 2013 we should have drafted Michael Carter-Williams or Trey Burke. In 2014 it was Elfrid Payton, and now this year it was Mudiay. Do you notice anything here. Those are all PG's, and every year, there seems to be one. Now go back through those years and find anyone that was available when we picked that has the abilities of WCS. My point is, players like WCS don't come around very often, regardless of their limitations, and when you have the chance to grab one, you do it.
If you go back and look at the game again....there are a few times where Mudiay passes to the spot shooting open 3 guy and WCS closes down of the guy forcing a miss or he doesn't take it. That right there is going to save us points. Go back and watch this game and notice when a guy like Wear goes and closes on that spot shooting 3.....doesn't get there in time and splash. We are used to seeing the latter....I want more of the WCS close outs and run down blocks.
This kid is going to help this team and its not going to be very sexy but he's going to help.
This kid is going to help this team and its not going to be very sexy but he's going to help.
And yet those other teams are set at PG while we are rolling the dice on our new starting PG on a one year rental.
Truth is, there is always talented big man to be drafted every year too. Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony Towns. PGs and big men are coveted. So you'll always hear arguments on both sides.
Truth is, there is always talented big man to be drafted every year too. Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony Towns. PGs and big men are coveted. So you'll always hear arguments on both sides.
Of those you listed there's a #1 pick, projected #1 who fell due to injuries, projected #1 who fell due to Injuries, #1 pick. So yes you're right... they're available if you have the #1 pick or want to gamble on injuries... we could throw Okafor in there too (#3 pick) another highly available talent.
Look at the teams in the league who are struggling to find a pg vs the teams who have no low post scoring threat or no rim protection (spoiler there's more in the latter category)
Look at the teams in the league who are struggling to find a pg vs the teams who have no low post scoring threat or no rim protection (spoiler there's more in the latter category)
Yes, men in the height range between 6 foot and 6'3 are easier to find. However, it doesn't mean they are quality basketball players.
No matter how prevelant PG sized players are, there are still only so many guys who are top tier. And those top tier guys propell you into the playoffs. You need a PG and a big man. We've had a big man for years and needed that PG.
No matter how prevelant PG sized players are, there are still only so many guys who are top tier. And those top tier guys propell you into the playoffs. You need a PG and a big man. We've had a big man for years and needed that PG.
You know what? I don't even care that people are upset with me because all I'm doing here in this topic is the same thing I do in every topic which is state my opinion. Am I actively looking for reasons to criticize Cauley-Stein? I don't think so. It's not like I suddenly changed my mind when Vlade didn't draft the guy I wanted and now I'm coming down hard on the player we did draft out of spite. These are the same criticisms I had about him before the draft. I'm not being unfair or unreasonable, I'm just telling you what I see. And I've read a lot of criticism here of Kings players over the years. Derrick Williams got torn apart the last two years. IT had all sorts of unflattering nicknames. It's understood, I thought, that as fans we're allowed to express our approval or disapproval with how a player is performing without it becoming a personal vendetta.
I hope Cauley-Stein does turn into a dominant defender for us. Based on everything I've seen to date though, I have some pretty big concerns. Even reading the praise people have for him here -- it's almost all projection. He's mobile, he ran stride for stride with a guard (and then fouled him), he's bothering shooters with his length. He's showing us some tools which could help the Kings down the line. I've never questioned his physical tools. It's his aptitude as a basketball player that I have an issue with. He's the tallest, longest, most athletically gifted player on the floor and yet it looks like he's hiding from the ball on offense. That's always rubbed me the wrong way. And offense is really the least of my concern most of the time. I was hugely in favor of acquiring Nerlens Noel because watching him I see special talent on the defensive end. Watching Cauley-Stein I see a role player who may never live up to the promise of his physical gifts because he's just not a great basketball player. He's an elite athlete who plays basketball moderately well. We've got a hall of fame coach though, so maybe what I see now is just a stepping stone to something great. I'll be watching.
In the mean time, am I just supposed to agree that Cauley-Stein looked great out there and he's going to change the game for us defensively because that would make people like me more? I've got a long track record here of expressing my opinion whether people like it or not. If you want to come at me with "I told you so's" of your own, have at it. I stand by my opinions until proven otherwise. If people are going to tell me I'm flat out wrong when I say that Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner are much better than the draft pundits say they are (and a lot of people did) am I not entitled to a small amount of righteous indignation when they clearly outplayed all of the other rookies in the Orlando Summer League this year? If I'm writing post after post for months trying to convince people that Mudiay isn't a starry-eyed teenager who's at least 4 years away from having an impact in the NBA and oh by the way here's a half dozen videos to prove it if you'll take the time to watch-- should I not take a small degree of pleasure in watching him run a team like a pro and take over a game with his passing aptitude? Did anyone else actually watch the Chinese games I posted before the draft? All you're seeing right now with Mudiay is what I tried to tell you about before the draft. There was actually a ton of info out there on him for anyone who wanted to put in the work to educate themselves.
Does it affect our team at this point if Mudiay plays well or not? Not really. Stanley Johnson is the guy I really wanted anyway and I don't think he was ever on Vlade's radar. But it does affect me. I've been doing this a long time, scouting the draft, and yeah maybe I shouldn't care whether people value my opinion or not. I'm just one voice of many. But in the words of Stanley Motts: I want the credit!
I hope Cauley-Stein does turn into a dominant defender for us. Based on everything I've seen to date though, I have some pretty big concerns. Even reading the praise people have for him here -- it's almost all projection. He's mobile, he ran stride for stride with a guard (and then fouled him), he's bothering shooters with his length. He's showing us some tools which could help the Kings down the line. I've never questioned his physical tools. It's his aptitude as a basketball player that I have an issue with. He's the tallest, longest, most athletically gifted player on the floor and yet it looks like he's hiding from the ball on offense. That's always rubbed me the wrong way. And offense is really the least of my concern most of the time. I was hugely in favor of acquiring Nerlens Noel because watching him I see special talent on the defensive end. Watching Cauley-Stein I see a role player who may never live up to the promise of his physical gifts because he's just not a great basketball player. He's an elite athlete who plays basketball moderately well. We've got a hall of fame coach though, so maybe what I see now is just a stepping stone to something great. I'll be watching.
In the mean time, am I just supposed to agree that Cauley-Stein looked great out there and he's going to change the game for us defensively because that would make people like me more? I've got a long track record here of expressing my opinion whether people like it or not. If you want to come at me with "I told you so's" of your own, have at it. I stand by my opinions until proven otherwise. If people are going to tell me I'm flat out wrong when I say that Stanley Johnson and Myles Turner are much better than the draft pundits say they are (and a lot of people did) am I not entitled to a small amount of righteous indignation when they clearly outplayed all of the other rookies in the Orlando Summer League this year? If I'm writing post after post for months trying to convince people that Mudiay isn't a starry-eyed teenager who's at least 4 years away from having an impact in the NBA and oh by the way here's a half dozen videos to prove it if you'll take the time to watch-- should I not take a small degree of pleasure in watching him run a team like a pro and take over a game with his passing aptitude? Did anyone else actually watch the Chinese games I posted before the draft? All you're seeing right now with Mudiay is what I tried to tell you about before the draft. There was actually a ton of info out there on him for anyone who wanted to put in the work to educate themselves.
Does it affect our team at this point if Mudiay plays well or not? Not really. Stanley Johnson is the guy I really wanted anyway and I don't think he was ever on Vlade's radar. But it does affect me. I've been doing this a long time, scouting the draft, and yeah maybe I shouldn't care whether people value my opinion or not. I'm just one voice of many. But in the words of Stanley Motts: I want the credit!