Telemachus
Starter
I actually have seen people writing off the King's chances in the playoffs more due to inexperience than to defense.
Domantas Sabonis Any Questions?
- Thread starter HndsmCelt
- Start date
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
The only question I have is...
How freaking good will Domas look surrounded by all of that hardware in June???
In all honesty, no questions...Rather than finding questions to ask, I have decided that it be best if I just enjoy the ride, soak it all in, and take whatever end result this team gives us. Because, ladies and gentlemen, whatever end result this team gives us at the end of the day will be infinitely better than the end result any of the previous 16 versions of the Sacramento Kings have been able to give us.
How freaking good will Domas look surrounded by all of that hardware in June???
In all honesty, no questions...Rather than finding questions to ask, I have decided that it be best if I just enjoy the ride, soak it all in, and take whatever end result this team gives us. Because, ladies and gentlemen, whatever end result this team gives us at the end of the day will be infinitely better than the end result any of the previous 16 versions of the Sacramento Kings have been able to give us.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
This is more aligned with my thoughts as well...I think our defense will be fine at the end of the day, but that lack of playoff experience will catch up to us at some point.
sactowndog
All-Star
I’m pretty sure I said “ we shall see”.
I’m curious how both Sabonis and Jokic do as they are very similar players.
Besides an eye test (that can be very subjective) do you have any stats that would suggest Sabonis being the worst defender on the team.None of the advanced stats that I managed to dig out(tried to look at the bunch of different ones, because I don't think there is one that's a golden standard) support that statement.
sactowndog
All-Star
I’m not referring to just pundits. But yes in general people go along with the crowd. Even here
That said I also think the Kings have balanced Sabonis with guards in Mitchell and Fox whom can stop dribble penetration. Sometimes that can work but the Kings give up the 3rd worst 2 point defensive FG% because they give up a lot of drives to the basket.
In a play-off series I could see teams targeting Huerter on the switch and getting in on Sabonis who doesn’t offer much rim protection. That 2-3 defensive wing area could be a real problem.
again we shall see ….. but it will be interesting to see how this team translates to the post season.
Defense is extremely difficult to quantify. No one has really been able to figure it out the way we have with offense.
Just pulling up some basic stats from NBA.com, Sabonis leads the team in defensive FG% allowed at 54.1%. Among rotational players, the next 3 worst are TD (53.3), Huerter (51.4), and Metu (51.2). https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall?TeamID=1610612758&dir=D&sort=D_FG_PCT. You would say that this stat favors guards because of lower 3pt % compared to 2pt %, and I would agree. Which is why I think it would make more sense to compare Sabonis' defensive FG% allowed with the other two bigs on our teams.
If you take a look at Sabonis' defensive dash board for defended FGs, his % are worse than both Metu and Lyles in almost every category, minus 1 for each: Sabonis - Lyles - Metu. If you don't want to compare all the numbers, their overall 2pt % stands as: Sabonis (56.5), Lyles (51.6), Metu (55.5). I decided to compare their 2pt % in this one compared to the overall team's in the last comparison because ideally, they'd all be facing similar defensive assignments and tasks. However, you could argue that this stat favors the bench guys because Sabonis faces starters, while Lyles and Metu face backup guys which makes their assignment easier and helps their dfg %.
Def rtg is also flawed as it's heavily dependent on your overall team and lineups you have on the floor. There just aren't any reliable stats for defense out there available to the masses.
Based on the eye test, it seems like Sabonis doesn't offer any protection at the rim (0.5blks/game would also support that). Opposing guards are easily able to get into the painted area and it constantly feels like an easy 2pts because we offer no resistance at the rim. This forces our wing players to help down-low, often leading to wide open 3s for their wing shooters. It's evident that our bad defense is an entire team issue starting with the guards. I think it gets easy to put blame on Sabonis when he's quite literally the middle cog to our defensive woes.
I hope others don't take this as me crapting all over Sabonis. In my opinion, he brings elite offense to the table and it 100% offsets any negative defense.
I'm wondering if the refs will lighten up on the fouls they call on him in the PO, allowing him to be a little more physical on defense (in particular). It seems like PO basketball is more physical so maybe he won't be getting all these phantom calls.
GWD
Bench
It is important to recognize Sabonis as the last line of defense. When the opponents drive the paint through the porous outside defense, Sabonis is all that stands between them and the basket. Whatca' gonna do?
Sabonis fouling out kills a large part of the King's offense. Brown likely has told Sabonis to step aside in the paint and avoid fouling (a twist on Brown's "defense without fouling" philosophy) because he is essential to the high-powered scoring at the other end that has been winning games. This makes it appear that Sobonis can't defend well.
It is likely that come playoff time Sabonis's full defensive skill set will appear and the rest of the team will protect him by stepping up their outside defense by cutting off drives to the basket. At any rate, that would be a path to a deep run in the post season if the Kings can pull it off.
Sabonis fouling out kills a large part of the King's offense. Brown likely has told Sabonis to step aside in the paint and avoid fouling (a twist on Brown's "defense without fouling" philosophy) because he is essential to the high-powered scoring at the other end that has been winning games. This makes it appear that Sobonis can't defend well.
It is likely that come playoff time Sabonis's full defensive skill set will appear and the rest of the team will protect him by stepping up their outside defense by cutting off drives to the basket. At any rate, that would be a path to a deep run in the post season if the Kings can pull it off.
I'm not holding my breath. Iirc 20 years ago fouls on our guys got even more ticky-tack in the playoffs.
This should come as no surprise to anyone and there's nothing that can be done about it anyway. Sabonis isn't a bad defender for lack of IQ or effort. He just doesn't have the physical archetype for it. There aren't very many flawless players out there. Embiid is the closest guy you'll find at the center position.
Pimpis Zajoba
G-League
This....Domas is not some garbage collector that is suppose to risk fouls just becouse some guys are missing assignments/can't stand in front of their man....Domas is 8th on the MVP ladder https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-march-3-2023-edition...Yes that what bigs do right?....US bigs like Myles Turner, Claxton JaVale McGee etc.do that, becouse they can't do nothing else....Domas creating the best offence in the NBA history and you're complaining?...
Good stuff here.
Yeah basically Sabonis is so good offensively and such a good rebounder, you live with what he gives you on defense. I think him being "bad' was severely overblown as he was sold to us, but he's certainly below average for a starting C.
It's on Monte to find the right secondary pieces next to him that makes up for his defensive short-comings.
Section 101
All-Star
You left out defensive rebounding. He's 3rd behind Giannis and Joker.
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
There's a lot of reasons for the "defense without fouling" philosophy but in my extremely humble opinion they mostly relate to the pace at which we play. Our offense favors not stopping the clock. I think it's important to keep in mind our overall style and why we play this way - it fits the "new NBA" which is largely a result of recent rule changes. What this does is render previous defensive statistics less relevant. The game is evolving faster than statisticians can figure out a way to measure it. And I'm here for it!
You have to be incredibly impressed with the cohesion between the coaching staff and management. They seem to have targeted players that are TAILOR MADE to fit the style we play - which again is mostly dictated by the New Rules. Frankly we should be the front runners for COY and EOY.
In the games I've watched, there have been some real clunkers where the Kings offered no resistance at all (which is really dragging down their overall defensive rating) but at least half the time they've played really solid team defense and either won easily or the other team just made a lot of incredibly tough shots. If you eliminate the clunkers we should probably be around middle of the pack defensively.
The difficulty of finding a defensive compliment for Sabonis when he's playing C is part of the reason Indiana ultimately gave up on him. Myles Turner looks like an ideal pairing on paper -- he's a shot blocker who can space the floor -- but unfortunately for them, they never really gelled together and that's probably because both of them prefer to operate in the same places on the floor. Myles Turner also seemed offended about being given the Scottie Pippen treatment as the de-facto sidekick to the guy who got there first.
If I had to project a more ideal player to fit alongside Sabonis, it should be someone who moves and thinks like a jumbo wing player with the goal being to prevent dribble penetration from the outside by perfecting the 1-4 defensive rotations. That would limit the number of times per game where Sabonis is asked to stop a guard/wing player in the paint who's coming at him with a full head of steam ready to dunk on him (or get the foul call). That would still leave a problem though of who the weak side help is going to be when Sabonis has to step up which is why that ideal jumbo wing should also be a decent shot blocker or at least have enough awareness to take good angles and draw charges.
The difficulty of finding a defensive compliment for Sabonis when he's playing C is part of the reason Indiana ultimately gave up on him. Myles Turner looks like an ideal pairing on paper -- he's a shot blocker who can space the floor -- but unfortunately for them, they never really gelled together and that's probably because both of them prefer to operate in the same places on the floor. Myles Turner also seemed offended about being given the Scottie Pippen treatment as the de-facto sidekick to the guy who got there first.
If I had to project a more ideal player to fit alongside Sabonis, it should be someone who moves and thinks like a jumbo wing player with the goal being to prevent dribble penetration from the outside by perfecting the 1-4 defensive rotations. That would limit the number of times per game where Sabonis is asked to stop a guard/wing player in the paint who's coming at him with a full head of steam ready to dunk on him (or get the foul call). That would still leave a problem though of who the weak side help is going to be when Sabonis has to step up which is why that ideal jumbo wing should also be a decent shot blocker or at least have enough awareness to take good angles and draw charges.
Sabonis is doing avoiding fouls defense at times but that is actually common in today's "nobody is allowed to play defense" NBA.I noticed Embiid and Jokic does this as well early in the game since they are also in the same boat because their team has no solid back ups for them.Coaches realize that the chance of stopping a guard or a wing flying into you and not getting a foul called are very low.And so do the players after getting called for every little tiny touch
NewArena
All-Star
For now, I’m happy to get there after 16 years. Whatever will be, will be - and i trust Monte to fill in the blanks and holes. Meh
NewArena
All-Star
Especially with more than half of the west not being very good on that end.
Pimpis Zajoba
G-League
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Tim Macmahon said he personally apologized to Monte and Wes for his take on what he called the “Haliburton trade”. Said he got it wrong and way underestimated Sabonis
macadocious
Starter
Ya, it was also an aside in his convo with Lowe. That dude was still ripping the trade in December. He should do his retraction as vehemently as he put up his opposition.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
He, along with plenty of others still feel the Pacers slightly won the trade but he has admitted that he underestimated Domas and that both teams benefited. I think that’s a reasonable position to take. He openly admitted his original take was way off, good enough for me .
macadocious
Starter
I guess. Did you see the videos of him openly laughing and mocking the trade? His admission was like a tail tuck, ya I guess I was kinda wrong...blah blah blah.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
no I didn’t see that one but he was on Sactown sports recently and confirmed that take.
bball_nomad
Bench
It happened second time. Pacers were robbed in trade with OKC and blasted through the regular season, outscoring Cavs with LBJ in 7 (or 6???) game series. Kings - Pacers trade is at least equal trade, but not a win - win. It could have been a win-win if Pacers were one of the top 6 East teams. Pacers are not. Meanwhile we are fighting for the 2nd seed in the West. Halli is very talented, but Pacers coach sucks. This trade is a clear win for the Kings because in less than a year Kings with HC Brown are already doing something special.
Sabonis yesterday made 9th tripple double and is 1 shy from reaching 2nd place on NBA: https://www.landofbasketball.com/year_by_year_stats/2022_2023_triple_doubles_rs.htm
