Discussing a quality product on the court (poll)
- Thread starter fnordius
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uolj
Starter
I would note that my attitude does change a little bit with circumstances, but the basic premise is always to be aiming towards being a championship contender even if it means more losses in the short term.
When the Kings sucked in the 80's and 90's, I was really only rooting for playoff appearances. However, if somebody told me that the Kings would have a 50% chance of become true championship contenders by the end of the 90's if I gave up the 1994 playoff appearance and they had the worst record that year, I'd take it. I mean, I still wear my Purple Reigns t-shirt, but that excitement is not worth giving up a real chance to cheer on champions.
When the Kings sucked in the 80's and 90's, I was really only rooting for playoff appearances. However, if somebody told me that the Kings would have a 50% chance of become true championship contenders by the end of the 90's if I gave up the 1994 playoff appearance and they had the worst record that year, I'd take it. I mean, I still wear my Purple Reigns t-shirt, but that excitement is not worth giving up a real chance to cheer on champions.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
I went with the first option. I'm prepared to stink for a few years so we can stockpile talent through the draft. It's the most likely way to land that superstar. I think some people are forgetting how fun it is to watch a young, exciting team full of energy. There's a saying "It's not the destination that's great, it's the journey". Something like that 
Just my opinion, of course. Everyone is entitled to their own.
Just my opinion, of course. Everyone is entitled to their own.
Lest anyone else be unclear on what I meant by "contender," the poll limits each question to under 100 characters, so I was unable to use the word "title" more than a couple of times in my questions. But by "contender," my intention was to mean a team that might win the Pacific division title, which would be expected to get past the first round of playoffs, and would have a reasonable shot at a championship.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
This is a no brainer for me: the heck with the short term.(and NO, that doesnt mean I dont want us to be at least competitive in the interim, though)Then I guessed right.
I voted heck with short term. Part of the reason (besides being sorta broke) that I sat this season out for League Pass was because it seemed like we were stuck in a holding pattern. I wouldn't mind watching young guys play huge minutes, developing quickly in losses if I had any indication to believe they were the future of the team. That's part of the magic in getting to the top. Its also why I am not really that excited about my 2nd favorite team putting together a super team with a 2 or 3 year shelf life. I actually like the ride to the top as much as the time spent up there.
silicongat
Prospect
This team is a few small tweaks away from being a competitor. I would love to see the key players return next year. Artest definitely needs to stay IMHO.
I'm about 2 - 3 losses from writing em off this season though.
I'm about 2 - 3 losses from writing em off this season though.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Ditto that.
I want them to be competitive and fun to watch. If they are good enough to compete after April 15, that's icing on the cake. And I know that's a minority opinion.
I love basketball and I absolutely love having a team this close that has become a part of my life. For me, as I've said before, it's about the now. The future may never come. Rational? Probably not but it's just how I view things.
I love basketball and I absolutely love having a team this close that has become a part of my life. For me, as I've said before, it's about the now. The future may never come. Rational? Probably not but it's just how I view things.
I want them to be competitive and fun to watch.... Rational? Probably not but it's just how I view things.
I tried to think of a way to include the "fun to watch" factor, but couldn't figure out any way to do that satisfactorily. Had I made the questions,
"1. I want them to be fun to watch, and don't care if they win anything
2. I want them to win a title, but don't care if they're fun to watch
3. Neither of the above"
...then I think #3 would win by a landslide. The comparison is too apples-oranges for a crowd that loves fruit salad, and there's no real conflict between the two wants. Unless I hear someone say that they don't care whether the team is fun to watch, I will assume that we're unanimous in having fun high on our priority lists.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
My goals for Kings as 2007-08 season has progressed:
November: Make playoffs!
December: Make playoffs!
January: Make playoffs!
February: Think playoffs, but first get to .500!
March/April: Stay above .500, win games! play kids! have fun!
November: Make playoffs!
December: Make playoffs!
January: Make playoffs!
February: Think playoffs, but first get to .500!
March/April: Stay above .500, win games! play kids! have fun!
Feh. "Fun" is subjective, too... And, if anything, being on this board for the past several years has taught me that what defines "fun" basketball for me is significantly different from what constitutes "fun" for most people. So, to me, the question of whether or not I care if the team is "fun" depends on whose definition of "fun" we're using.
Jespher
Starter
The only time that it is best to win now and #$%^ the future is when you're pretty sure you can beat all of the other teams and win the whole thing. That usually ends badly later, but at least you have the ring (Note, see Miami Heat, and Florida Marlins (twice)).
Usually it is done to a lesser degree, like the Kings until Webber blew out his knee, and at least there's hope of less cellar dwelling if the present team explodes.
Usually it is done to a lesser degree, like the Kings until Webber blew out his knee, and at least there's hope of less cellar dwelling if the present team explodes.
You're a Mavs fan and a Patriots fan?!? This past year must have sucked the life out of you.
I agree with your sentiments, though, which is why I have never been extremely excited about Justin Williams grabbing 8 rebounds in 8 minutes, when he has no chance at being a regular part of the rotation on a good team.
I would not mind seeing us lose some games if it means that we're putting ourselves in better position for the future. When the big three were hurt and Beno, Salmons and Garcia were starting, I enjoyed seeing the Kings play more than I did at anytime over the course of all of last season. Most people did, which is why we all were troubled the night Bibby and Artest came back and the teamwork stopped.
So I don't mind seeing Bibby traded away when I truly get the impression that the front office is looking toward the future as opposed to trying to squeak in the playoffs and get swept in the first round. I wish we could rebuild and keep Bibby, but that's not possible. We have to get worse before we can get better, and I'm willing to put up with that. I just hope our "powers that be" are competent enough and patient enough to do it right.
In my opinion, saying that you don't want the team to get worse but you do want to see them contending soon is like saying that you want your home completely remodeled, but you don't want your paint job messed up. The hope is that, because you are making a sacrifice in the short term, the long term payoff is going to be that much more worth it.
That's the hope, anyway. Since it seems we're taking steps toward that end, I think it's a justified hope. For now. Let's see what we do between now and October.
Mavs fan???You're a Mavs fan and a Patriots fan?!? This past year must have sucked the life out of you.
Personal insults? Is this what you are going to resort to to get me to acknowledge the SuperBowl beyond a sentence or two in the official thread?
I have to defend my honor. And you know darned well I am talking about the Celts.
Losing is not an absolute.
EDIT - After much thought, I refuse to vote in this poll on the grounds that I disagree with the wording: "Progress towards a great team is my top priority, but I'm not willing to stink in the short term" is a logical fallacy. If you're not willing to "stink it up" in the short term, then progress towards a great team can't be your top priority.
If the Beyonder (Marvel Comics fans know who I'm talking about) came up to you and told you that he could guarantee that the Kings would win the championship in 2013, but that, in order to get it, we'd have to be a 30-win team for the next three years until we started to get it together, and you told him that it's not worth it, then becoming great is not your top priority.
EDIT - After much thought, I refuse to vote in this poll on the grounds that I disagree with the wording: "Progress towards a great team is my top priority, but I'm not willing to stink in the short term" is a logical fallacy. If you're not willing to "stink it up" in the short term, then progress towards a great team can't be your top priority.
If the Beyonder (Marvel Comics fans know who I'm talking about) came up to you and told you that he could guarantee that the Kings would win the championship in 2013, but that, in order to get it, we'd have to be a 30-win team for the next three years until we started to get it together, and you told him that it's not worth it, then becoming great is not your top priority.
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uolj
Starter
How?
I guess I must be dumb, too, because I clearly didn't "understand the spirit of each choice" either.
And what exactly is "the spirit"?
The problem with polls like this is people get way too wordy in the choices they make available. Using the "KISS" rule is always good in polls, too.
uolj
Starter
I'm not saying it's perfect, but it seems to me that the point is to rank on a scale of 1 to 5 with 5 being I only care about trying to win right now in the short term and 1 being I don't care what happens right now in the short term if the team is building towards a championship.I guess I must be dumb, too, because I clearly didn't "understand the spirit of each choice" either.
And what exactly is "the spirit"?
The problem with polls like this is people get way too wordy in the choices they make available. Using the "KISS" rule is always good in polls, too.
Jerryaki
Starter
"not willing to stink it up" and "best possible play" are synonymous to me. the two choices are saying the same thing in different voices (choice 2 is moderate, choice 5 is aggressive). that's why no one picked choice 5.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The wordiness was on purpose I am sure to attempt to describe a complex deabte.
Sheesh, you people must be the type who used to frustrate me as a tutor -- know the subject but struggle to answer multiple choice questions because they aren't phrased in your own exact words.
Sheesh, you people must be the type who used to frustrate me as a tutor -- know the subject but struggle to answer multiple choice questions because they aren't phrased in your own exact words.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
I think they'd be fun to watch if they played a lineup of Williams, Beno/Douby, Martin, Garcia, and Hawes for the rest of the year. And it would benefit the long term. And they would play hard (competitive). It won't happen because the Kings want to put the best lineup on the floor, thereby insuring they get a lower draft pick and get less pt for the young guys.
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