DeMarcus Cousins is Averaging 30.0pts 12.8reb 3.9ast Since the All Star Break

[gunks]

Crazy numbers. Yet people maintain that Karl is a bad fit for DMC. Not sure how to reconcile that. Not sure that I care.

If Malone were here would he be averaging 40, 20 and 10?

He'd probably be around 22/12/3. He'd also be way more efficient, be a better defender, and play harder.

And we'd be a 7th seed. ... Minimum.

Karl is toxic and his schemes suck.

But..... His style does allow for those godly numbers by Cuz. Good ole pace.

I don't know how people can continue to defend Karl (and this is a general statement, not really directed just at you). I recognize his past accomplishments. Those Nuggets teams were fun to watch and way overachieved. He deserves to be in the HOF.

..... But man. What's he done lately? He has been straight up awful this year. Put a fork in that career.

Anyways. ... What are message boards for, if not opinions! So uh... Agree to disagree!

 

[Dbeltz24]

So now that I debunked the "Cousins vs two defenders is better than Gay/Collison vs no defender" argument you were trying to communicate, you're going to try and act like Gay & Collison's man never leave them? Looks like I have you on the run....

Actually, yes. It's happened on numerous occasions. And Rondo doesn't play 48 minutes. There are plenty of times when the 2nd defender is coming off a player that can shoot. Even if they come off Rondo, that just means you're giving Rondo access into the paint for either a runner, a dump off pass, an open shot, or forcing another defender to rotate over, and you're acting like Rondo is this god awful shooter. The man is shooting 36% from three this year. That's equivalent to a 54% shooter from 2. Cousins is shooting 47% from two this season, so yes, it's a much better play to have Rondo shoot an uncontested 3 than for Cousins to take a two pointer. It's simple math.

I've always liked this particular quote: “The way you handle double teams is you can’t fight them. That’s part of making your team better because it comes down to simple common sense. Do I try to score on two guys or do I pass the ball to an open teammate? There are guys who try to fight the double team and only two things can happen and they’re both bad. You can either take a bad shot and miss or you can turn the ball over.”

Sound familiar? Cousins is so talented that he can get away with it here and there, but if he wants to get to that next level, this is the next step for him.

I also like the story I heard about Popovich on calling plays for Leonard. Leonard was talking to a reporter and was explaining back when Pop first started calling plays for Leonard that Leonard's response was "so you want me to score?" Popovich replies, "No. I want the team to score."

This is exactly the mindset Cousins needs to have. Giving him the ball on the block or at the top of the key is not code for 'we're relying on you to score.' Cousins gives us the best chance at getting easy buckets AS A TEAM. If he gets there, he realizes his full potential in my opinion.

You didn't debunk anything. Just pointing out Gay's man will never leave to double. And if you'd seriously want Rondo taking 3's/midrange J's, be my guest. The eye test tells me he's not a good shooter. Ask him to shoot more and you'll see his shooting percentage go down.

Surround DMC with better scoring options, he'll pass out of the double more. If not, he's gonna take the whole team on.

Again, it's Kobe with Smush and Kwame. It's Wade before LeBron and Bosh. But you simply like to think if DMC would trust his teammates we'd be better. And I don't blame DMC for not trusting this roster. Gay has been disappointing this season, Collison disappears in the 4th, Belinelli went on a huge cold streak, Koufos can't score and Rondo can't shoot. Oh and don't forget Ben.

 

[twslam07]

You didn't debunk anything. Just pointing out Gay's man will never leave to double. And if you'd seriously want Rondo taking 3's/midrange J's, be my guest. The eye test tells me he's not a good shooter. Ask him to shoot more and you'll see his shooting percentage go down.

Surround DMC with better scoring options, he'll pass out of the double more. If not, he's gonna take the whole team on.

Again, it's Kobe with Smush and Kwame. It's Wade before LeBron and Bosh. But you simply like to think if DMC would trust his teammates we'd be better. And I don't blame DMC for not trusting this roster. Gay has been disappointing this season, Collison disappears in the 4th, Belinelli went on a huge cold streak, Koufos can't score and Rondo can't shoot. Oh and don't forget Ben.

No, I did. Hence why you shifted your argument...

Well I guess your eyes fail you. Rondo's been shooting well this year. Let's just put it this way, Rondo shooting 31% from three is still a better shot than what Cousins is averaging from two. Even if his percentage drops, it's still a better shot than what Cousins is doing. And that's assuming his 3pt shooting goes down which I'm not sure why it would considering the threes he takes are a result of the defense shifting and leaving him open. It's going to be the same type of shot he's been taking all year, but focusing on just Rondo is biased because it's not Rondo who ends up taking the shot every single time when Cousins passes out of a double/traffic. You're focusing on one aspect to try and prove your point which shows your bias/agenda.

Again, even with just average shooters around him, taking the whole team on is a bad decision by Cousins.

This Kobe & Wade comparison is just silly. You're trying to compare wing players that are very difficult to double let alone guard straight up to a big man who can easily be doubled in the post. Kobe passing to Kawme or Smush doesn't make sense because Kobe only has one defender in front of him. You take those odds just like you would if Cousins is 1 on 1, but if Kobe or Wade are doubled, the best play is to pass out of it. It's common sense really.

 

[Telemachus]

Crazy numbers. Yet people maintain that Karl is a bad fit for DMC. Not sure how to reconcile that. Not sure that I care.

If Malone were here would he be averaging 40, 20 and 10?

If Malone was here, the defense would be better. That would make Cousins numbers lead to more wins. If the Kings were just middle of the pack defensively, they would likely be 5+ games over .500.

 

[Dbeltz24]

No, I did. Hence why you shifted your argument...

Well I guess your eyes fail you. Rondo's been shooting well this year. Let's just put it this way, Rondo shooting 31% from three is still a better shot than what Cousins is averaging from two. Even if his percentage drops, it's still a better shot than what Cousins is doing. And that's assuming his 3pt shooting goes down which I'm not sure why it would considering the threes he takes are a result of the defense shifting and leaving him open. It's going to be the same type of shot he's been taking all year, but focusing on just Rondo is biased because it's not Rondo who ends up taking the shot every single time when Cousins passes out of a double/traffic. You're focusing on one aspect to try and prove your point which shows your bias/agenda.

Again, even with just average shooters around him, taking the whole team on is a bad decision by Cousins.

This Kobe & Wade comparison is just silly. You're trying to compare wing players that are very difficult to double let alone guard straight up to a big man who can easily be doubled in the post. Kobe passing to Kawme or Smush doesn't make sense because Kobe only has one defender in front of him. You take those odds just like you would if Cousins is 1 on 1, but if Kobe or Wade are doubled, the best play is to pass out of it. It's common sense really.

No you did not. I just don't seem to care or want to, if I'm being honest, to get you to see how horrible DC and Gay are compared to other team's supporting cast. And the fact you keep sticking up for Rondo with 36% from three is hilarious. He is shooting because the defense is not closing out on him and leaving him alone. If he was that great of a shooter and such a threat as a scorer, he'd average more than 12 points while playing 36 a game.

Surround DMC with a better supporting cast, he'll be a willing passer. But keep surrounding him with idiots, and he'll keep playing selfish.

And Kobe/Wade play a lot in the post, thought you watched a lot of bball. So the comparison works. Until they got a supporting cast, they tried to beat the double team.

 

[Section 101]

Crazy numbers. Yet people maintain that Karl is a bad fit for DMC. Not sure how to reconcile that. Not sure that I care.

If Malone were here would he be averaging 40, 20 and 10?

Cuz can play it in any system. It's Rudy, Collison, Marco, Ben and sometimes Omri that have problems in his system. Their strengths don't match the system.

 

[twslam07]

No you did not. I just don't seem to care or want to, if I'm being honest, to get you to see how horrible DC and Gay are compared to other team's supporting cast. And the fact you keep sticking up for Rondo with 36% from three is hilarious. He is shooting because the defense is not closing out on him and leaving him alone. If he was that great of a shooter and such a threat as a scorer, he'd average more than 12 points while playing 36 a game.

Surround DMC with a better supporting cast, he'll be a willing passer. But keep surrounding him with idiots, and he'll keep playing selfish.

And Kobe/Wade play a lot in the post, thought you watched a lot of bball. So the comparison works. Until they got a supporting cast, they tried to beat the double team.

They are not bad players, and you're missing the point. You don't have to be a great player to score with no defender in front of you.

What do you mean sticking up for him? And when did I ever say "great shooter?" He's doing his job and knocking down shots when left open. You tried to use Rondo as a reason why Cousins doesn't pass out of a double, and I just proved that passing to Rondo when open is a better play. It's math. I could easily say that if Cousins was a more willing passer, than maybe Rondo would average more than 12 PPG.

Idiots? Going to such extremes to make your point. Even if they were "idiots" (which they aren't) as you so eloquently put it, idiots are capable of making uncontested shots. It's not the correct basketball play. Maybe Cousins will start making the correct basketball play when he has better players/shooters around him, but that doesn't change the fact that he should be making those plays with the current cast he has around him.

Did Bryant & Wade operate in the post? Yes. Was that the only way they would score? Hell no. Again, my point still holds about doubling them on the perimeter, but Wade & Kobe did pass out of the post when doubled & were successful in doing so. Both Kobe & Wade averaged 5-6 APG with positive A/TO ratios their entire careers. Neither of which ever averaged 5 turnovers per game which goes back to our original argument. Cousins averaging 5 turnovers a game is unacceptable.

I'm still puzzled how someone could condone 5 TOs from any player. I know we all love Cousins, but even somewhat logical people can identify areas that he can improve. It doesn't make him any less of a player identifying those weaknesses.

 

[pshn80]

Cuz has increased his average points per game since the All Star break. He scored well tonight though his rebounding was down. The Kings are 3-9 over that period. Worse percentage than their season-to-date record. Wish Cuz could influence a better W-L record.

 

[VF21]

Cuz has increased his average points per game since the All Star break. He scored well tonight though his rebounding was down. The Kings are 3-9 over that period. Worse percentage than their season-to-date record. Wish Cuz could influence a better W-L record.

It's hard to imagine what more he can do considering what he has to contend with. I can't even count the number of times he and 4 other Kings have been doing well only to look up and see at least 3 substitutions waiting to come in. And that's just the first example that came to mind.

 

[Tetsujin]

Empty stats. Al Horford would be averaging 15/10/3 and be having this team winning 50 games every season.

 

[Dbeltz24]

They are not bad players, and you're missing the point. You don't have to be a great player to score with no defender in front of you.

What do you mean sticking up for him? And when did I ever say "great shooter?" He's doing his job and knocking down shots when left open. You tried to use Rondo as a reason why Cousins doesn't pass out of a double, and I just proved that passing to Rondo when open is a better play. It's math. I could easily say that if Cousins was a more willing passer, than maybe Rondo would average more than 12 PPG.

Idiots? Going to such extremes to make your point. Even if they were "idiots" (which they aren't) as you so eloquently put it, idiots are capable of making uncontested shots. It's not the correct basketball play. Maybe Cousins will start making the correct basketball play when he has better players/shooters around him, but that doesn't change the fact that he should be making those plays with the current cast he has around him.

Did Bryant & Wade operate in the post? Yes. Was that the only way they would score? Hell no. Again, my point still holds about doubling them on the perimeter, but Wade & Kobe did pass out of the post when doubled & were successful in doing so. Both Kobe & Wade averaged 5-6 APG with positive A/TO ratios their entire careers. Neither of which ever averaged 5 turnovers per game which goes back to our original argument. Cousins averaging 5 turnovers a game is unacceptable.

I'm still puzzled how someone could condone 5 TOs from any player. I know we all love Cousins, but even somewhat logical people can identify areas that he can improve. It doesn't make him any less of a player identifying those weaknesses.

The whole argument was surround him with better players and I'm pretty sure his TO's go down because he's more likely to pass out of double.

Once we do that, and if his TO's stay the way they are, then I'll agree and say he doesn't play the smartest out of a double and won't condone it.

But I'm not going to rip the guy for not passing it to Rondo/Collison/Gag. I can understand why he doesn't. Does it puzzle me? Yes. But he'll get better with time and better supporting cast. It's that simple to see.

 

[twslam07]

The whole argument was surround him with better players and I'm pretty sure his TO's go down because he's more likely to pass out of double.

Once we do that, and if his TO's stay the way they are, then I'll agree and say he doesn't play the smartest out of a double and won't condone it.

But I'm not going to rip the guy for not passing it to Rondo/Collison/Gag. I can understand why he doesn't. Does it puzzle me? Yes. But he'll get better with time and better supporting cast. It's that simple to see.

Now you're shifting the argument....

The argument was 5 TOs per game for Cousins is too much. You took the stance that it is not too much because of his teammates.

Will Cousins change his play with better shooters/players? It remains to be seen. However, I would agree that it's likely. What I am pointing out is that his current choice of Cousins vs. the defense is actually a worse basketball play than trusting his current teammates and passing out of double & triple teams. Cousins may think his teammates are not good enough and that he has to do it himself, but the math shows this thought is incorrect.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Empty stats. Al Horford would be averaging 15/10/3 and be having this team winning 50 games every season.

Yeah, Al Horford would come here and make the Kings a 50 game winner. Instantly.

All I can say is "wow".

 

[twslam07]

Yeah, Al Horford would come here and make the Kings a 50 game winner. Instantly.

All I can say is "wow".

You do realize that he's being sarcastic, right?

 

[KingMilz]

Win/Losses

 

[Blob]

Boogie has a 53.7% TS and a 0.8 assist to turnover ratio....so his massive offensive production occurs in the context of meddling efficiency. I've set pre season benchmarks for Boogie the last 2-3 years regarding FG% (50% or better) TS% (55% or better) and assist to turnover (1.0 or better) and he's failed to meet them. These numbers are not just pulled from a hat. They are relative to other high usage guys and what it takes to be a .500 team or better.

There is a direct correlation between efficiency of best player and their record. His efficiency is not bad but not great and disappointing given having Rondo as his PG. Overall he has shown growth and expanded his game. He is making smarter decisions on perimeter (including tonight) and this bodes well for his efficiency next season (if he is still a King ) but his inefficiency put us behind 8 ball in December (5-8) and the bad stretch (1-9) before All-Star break.

I did a three year analysis of high usage players....basically the Top 12 players in the league to prove what I expected to prove....which is scoring and passing efficiency of highest usage player corresponds to wins.....which makes sense intuitively. The guy that generates offense or creates offense for others at a high low or average rate is going to play significant role in your success or lack there of.

Notice Boogie and Westbrook are similar in usage and points per minute and TS%. Westbrook has drew criticism for being inefficient and careless with the ball until he made strides this season. Of course Westbrook has another superstar to play with. Boogie doesn't. He also has a 2:1 assist to turnover rate to keep teammates involved.

Notice too that to get where Boogie needs to get to lead this team to a .500 record or playoff spot is moderate not drastic improvement. I would like see Boogie in the same ballpark as Blake and Brow (56% to 57% TS) and the assist to turnover definitely need to be over 1.0....ideally around 1.3 to 1.5.

The player Boogie ranks closest to in terms of scoring and passing efficiency is Melo. And it is not coincidence that although the Knicks are a more talented team with Melo, there is also debate whether the Knicks would not be better off moving him to acquire more complementary pieces to put around their core and Porzingis.

So with regards to the OP raw data while impressive fails to consider efficiency which is the true indicator of whether or not the numbers mean anything.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

You do realize that he's being sarcastic, right?

Nope, I guess that went over my head. But I'm glad to hear it, as I thought Tetsujin might have hit his head over the weekend and got a concussion .... He's usually a pretty level headed person

 

[VF21]

Yeah, Al Horford would come here and make the Kings a 50 game winner. Instantly.

All I can say is "wow".

Weren't you here when Tetsujin wrote the opening posts for the game threads? Sarcasm and sardonic wit are his stocks in trade.

 

[biltalent]

Video game numbers. The Pelicans are having the same issues with Anthony Davis apparently, who they cannot build a team around and are severely underachieving. I know Reke has been out and he is their second best player, so it must be the coach huh? Back to the topic at hand, you can bang your head against the wall with these stats, we want wins. Normally this is the part I would say that the Kings would be better off with Boogie sacrificing shots but then I look at the roster and take that back. Who else would you rather shooting shots? Definitely not Rondo, Belinelli and company so you just take the god like numbers and losses as they come with it.

Quite a incident that both teams fired a motivational defense/slow it down players coach in Malone and M. Williams and replaced him with a pacey offensive guy in Karl and Gentry and its not working at all. Terrible seasons for both teams.

 

[KingMilz]

Crazy numbers. Yet people maintain that Karl is a bad fit for DMC. Not sure how to reconcile that. Not sure that I care.

If Malone were here would he be averaging 40, 20 and 10?

Nah his stats would be less because with Malone we would be blowing teams out and resting DMC in the 4th quarter so in the playoffs we sweep those weenie and soft GSW's.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Weren't you here when Tetsujin wrote the opening posts for the game threads? Sarcasm and sardonic wit are his stocks in trade.

I do recall now that you mention it. I've always enjoyed his contributions to this site, so I really should have known better. All the negativity and ridiculousness that's been going on of late has polluted my mind, apparently.

 

[mac]

Nah his stats would be less because with Malone we would be blowing teams out and resting DMC in the 4th quarter so in the playoffs we sweep those weenie and soft GSW's.

Malone and Cousins' leadership alone is enough to get us to the finals. Then Cousins just has to play 4 games and we'd win. Power of loyalty and whatnot.

 

[kingjatt]

Everyone in this town that wants Demarcus gone is crazy. This dude is putting up better numbers than Prime Shaq in a league dominated by guards! He is the biggest mismatch in the league! Can we please put a competent organization around him? If he is traded(no matter the return) this team is in the dumpster for another decade at least.