DeMarcus Cousins : "Bynum doesn't deserve to touch the trophy!"

[bajaden]

I do think people need to temper their enthusiasm for Whiteside. There's a reason he fell all the way into the 2nd round. For all the frustration people have with Thompson (who was a lottery pick remember) and his lapses I think Whiteside will have people throwing things at their TV at times. He has amazing length and above average athleticism but he has a very low basketball IQ.

He is absolutely a project and anything he gives the team this year will be a bonus. If he can capitalize on his potential then the Kings may have something, but that's a long way from happening at this point.

Yeah, I agree. I look at Whiteside as a long term project. He does have some skills besides blocking shots, but he has some huge holes in his game as well. He has no idea what the word pass means, and in college when he actually attempted to pass the ball, he was a turnover machine. I would like to remind people that last year Whiteside had like 6 assists, not in a game, but for the entire year. His pluses are his shotblocking, a nice 15 to 17 foot jumper, a decent post game, that will not be enough in the NBA, and good athleticism for a guy his size. At Marshall he would get lost on offense from time to time. So how do you think he'll do with the NBA offense?

Its not my intention to beat up on him. Just to make people aware that potentially the Kings got a very good player at 33. But not to expect him to come in and make a huge impact right off the bat. Its going to take some time. But if he works hard, the Kings could have something special with him and Cousins. They both seem to have a vendetta of sorts, to prove everyone wrong. Lets hope that translates into a whole bunch of wins down the road.

 

[NME]

I wonder what a reasonable development curve for Whiteside would be? I figure once he learns where to be on the floor on each end, the main obstacle to real minutes will be learning to play some semblance of positional defense when he isn't blocking a shot.

 

[Superman]

I would like to remind people that last year Whiteside had like 6 assists, not in a game, but for the entire year.

Don't short change the kid. It was ten.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=46133

Still, he averaged over five blocks a game as a freshman, including one game outbursts of 13, 10 (both against Central Florida) and 11 (Brescia). No more than three personal fouls in any of those three games. Only had 1 block in just one game. More common was 4, 5, 7 ... The kid is a natural shotblocker, and terrific rebounder. All those people saying "we should give up a first rounder for Thabeet or Oden" should be pleased, and we got this guy in the second round. Sure he's raw offensively, but so are those guys.

He won't have a lot of pressure or expectations on him here, as a second rounder. If he can come in for 10-12 minutes here and there and alter a couple of shots and grab a few rebounds, he'll be loved by all.

 

[Telemachus]

I can see you omitted Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, and Al Jefferson. Those three have played power forward at times with centers Bynum, Gortat, and Milicic.

Actually, Gasol has played PF the majority of his career. Even though he has the size to play center, he gets pushed around by the real centers around the league (not PFs playing the position). Jefferson is a PF that has had to play center because of Minnesota's lack of size. That lack of a real center is one of the reasons they struggle on the boards and signed Milicic to more money than he is worth IMO. Howard has the athleticsm to guard most PFs and centers, but he even struggles against the bigger centers around the league.

 

[Telemachus]

Boozer (and mostly every other quality power forward in the NBA) is money from 20 feet. You can't sag off anyone these days. And if you're gonna close out and defend the jumper, you can't let them go by you. Amare, Pau, Bosh, Dirk, Boozer, Aldridge, and the like can all put the ball on the floor and go by Dalembert. I don't see anything wrong with playing Sam and DMC together for stretches, particularly against teams that don't have skilled big men, but if you take Dalembert and put him 20 feet away from the basket, you might as well not have him on the floor. His specialty is blocking shots; let him stay near the rim.

With Landry and Thompson in the lineup, there's no reason to put Sam or DMC on a quicker power forward.

Dalembert's biggest weakness defensively to getting out on shooters on the perimeter. He prefers to stay close to the basket. Asking him to go out and guard a PF on the perimeter not only takes him away from the basket, but makes him almost a liability on defense. Just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Telemachus]

I wonder what a reasonable development curve for Whiteside would be? I figure once he learns where to be on the floor on each end, the main obstacle to real minutes will be learning to play some semblance of positional defense when he isn't blocking a shot.

He also needs to get stronger. He struggled in games last season when he went up against a good to decent post player. He just got backed down to easily, but that is something I am sure the Kings will work with him (if they aren't already).

 

[Megalodon]

But lets be honest here guys ... Cousins wasn't drafted as high as he was because of his defense. He has tremendous upside there as well, but once again we are talking about potential. Can someone more knowledgeable than me inform me what exactly his strengths and weakness' are on defense? I know he said thats an area of his game he wants to improve.

 

[Telemachus]

But lets be honest here guys ... Cousins wasn't drafted as high as he was because of his defense. He has tremendous upside there as well, but once again we are talking about potential. Can someone more knowledgeable than me inform me what exactly his strengths and weakness' are on defense? I know he said thats an area of his game he wants to improve.

I think his biggest weakness is probably positioning at this point. He does a pretty good job in the post (very hard to move), but struggles more with team defense and out on the perimeter. Bajaden could probably fill in a little more. He watched Kentucky a lot more than I was able to.

 

[Megalodon]

I think his biggest weakness is probably positioning at this point. He does a pretty good job in the post (very hard to move), but struggles more with team defense and out on the perimeter. Bajaden could probably fill in a little more. He watched Kentucky a lot more than I was able to.

I figured it was more of a knowledgeable issue than physical, and sometimes those are the hardest to learn. From what I've read Cousins appears to be an extremely quick learner.

 

[Prince_XY]

Why are people assuming Dalembert cannot guard 4s? He's long, quick and athletic. At the minimum he'll do as good a job as Thompson or Landry would, with a very good chance of doing better. Look at the starting PFs in the league, who exactly would you rather have Thompson/Landry checking over Dalembert?

J. Smith
K. Garnett
B. Diaw
T. Gibson
A. Jamison
D. Nowitzki
K. Martin
A. Tolliver
L. Scola
T. Murphy
D. Gooden
P. Gasol
Z. Randolph
M. Beasley
K. Thomas
A. Jefferson
Y. Jianlian
D. West
D. Lee
J. Green
R. Lewis
E. Brand
A. Stoudemire
L. Aldridge
T. Duncan
C. Bosh
C. Boozer
A. Blatche

Maybe the ones in bold, but thats about all I can think of.

Hmmm.

You make a lot of sense my friend. I also believe Dalembert is quick enough to guard these power forwards occasionally. Nobody is saying it will be on a night to night basis anyways. So there is no harm in trying. We wouldn't know for sure if we don't even try.

 

[Prince_XY]

The Kings already project Whiteside as more of a PF.

So, are you saying you agree that Whiteside should play PF or what?

Dalembert and Whiteside have two similarities when it comes to strength - shot blocking and rebounding. I guess a lot of people are wrong when they say Dalembert cannot play PF because you are wasting his shotblocking talent and rebounding talent. Asking him to go out and guard a PF on the perimeter not only takes him away from the basket, but makes him somewhat a liability on defense. Just doesn't make any sense if it applies to Dalembert now but not to Whiteside.

 

[Prince_XY]

What does having Dalembert and Cousins on the floor together do that would make it desirable to pair them up?
They'd likely be dominant on the glass. Presumably they are the team's two best rebounders. But outside of that? On defense you'd either have Cousins chasing guys that are likely much faster than him or Dalembert being pulled farther from the hoop. And their offensive games don't really mesh either.

I think you missed reading the very nice post of The Hammer regarding how Cousins and Dalembert can play at the same time.

Why don't you try reading it and try to criticize it nicely point by point. I myself tried in silence, but his idea is too good that I can't find anything wrong. Probably you can refute it and please do, so maybe some of us can learn. I have yet seen anybody refute the post point by point.

I think we are discussing the possibility of playing Dalembert and Cousins at the same time because there is a big chance that both will prove to be the best amongst our BIGs. If they end up being super-duper BIGs for our team, aren't you at least going to be intrigued by the possibility of starting/playing both at the same time?

BTW, nobody is claiming it must be done on night to night basis and we are just discussing the possibility.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Don't short change the kid. It was ten.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=46133

Still, he averaged over five blocks a game as a freshman, including one game outbursts of 13, 10 (both against Central Florida) and 11 (Brescia). No more than three personal fouls in any of those three games. Only had 1 block in just one game. More common was 4, 5, 7 ... The kid is a natural shotblocker, and terrific rebounder. All those people saying "we should give up a first rounder for Thabeet or Oden" should be pleased, and we got this guy in the second round. Sure he's raw offensively, but so are those guys.

He won't have a lot of pressure or expectations on him here, as a second rounder. If he can come in for 10-12 minutes here and there and alter a couple of shots and grab a few rebounds, he'll be loved by all.

Terrific rebounder? I didn't see it.

 

[funkykingston]

I think you missed reading the very nice post of The Hammer regarding how Cousins and Dalembert can play at the same time.

Why don't you try reading it and try to criticize it nicely point by point.

If you read it he is proposing that Landry also play the 3. And furthermore that Whiteside be the first big off the bench and JT play spot duty, including at the SF spot. And a little further down he suggests that Donte or a summer league player who is a good defender could be at the two and swing to the three if that's who the other team's best wing player is.

Taking all of that into account, you'd have the Kings playing a team like Orlando where Dalembert would guard Howard, Cousins would have to try to guard Rashard Lewis and not be able to stay in front of him OR double down quickly enough to help, Donte would get switched onto Vince Carter and Landry would be running around the perimeter trying to stop JJ Reddick from hitting open threes. Which also means that the only help defender for Donte if Carter takes him off the dribble would be Dalembert which leaves Howard open for dump off passes.

or against at team like the Suns it means Cousins and Landry would have to guard opposing forwards on the break.

Not to mention that it means that there is very little ballhandling or passing to take pressure off Tyreke, no three point shooting to stretch the floor and a clogged lane for a guy whose greatest strength is getting to the basket.

Going big that way would mean a congested lane, no quickness for defensive rotations or ability to close out on shooters, bad transition defense and the only real advantage being big. For all that size I don't think it would even be our best rebounding lineup.

The Kings went from their big men (especially center) being a huge weakness to possibly having an abundance of riches depending on how things shake out. But just because the team now has good size and potential at the PF and C doesn't mean they should play guys out of position just to field a huge squad.

 

[Superman]

Terrific rebounder? I didn't see it.

I'm assuming you saw him play more than I did, so I'll defer to you. I only saw him play once, aside from highlight reels and such. But you look at his game logs, and it's hard to ignore the 12, 14, 16,17 rebound nights. Of course, he had a few 4s and 6s in there as well.

 

[funkykingston]

Whiteside was a college rebounder of convenience. He was always the tallest/longest guy on the court and was usually close to the basket. Add in decent hops and hands and he can gobble up easy boards.

He's not at all a fundamental rebounder in terms of establishing posiiton and boxing out. And he isn't a guy that anticipates all that well or crashes the boards hard.

That's not to say he can't be a good rebounder in the NBA (in the Tyson Chandler/Marcus Camby mold) if he puts his mind to it and works on that aspect of the game, but I think early in his career he'll struggle against bigger, stronger and more fundamentally sound competition.

 

[The Hammer]

If you read it he is proposing that Landry also play the 3. And furthermore that Whiteside be the first big off the bench and JT play spot duty, including at the SF spot. And a little further down he suggests that Donte or a summer league player who is a good defender could be at the two and swing to the three if that's who the other team's best wing player is.

Taking all of that into account, you'd have the Kings playing a team like Orlando where Dalembert would guard Howard, Cousins would have to try to guard Rashard Lewis and not be able to stay in front of him OR double down quickly enough to help, Donte would get switched onto Vince Carter and Landry would be running around the perimeter trying to stop JJ Reddick from hitting open threes. Which also means that the only help defender for Donte if Carter takes him off the dribble would be Dalembert which leaves Howard open for dump off passes.

or against at team like the Suns it means Cousins and Landry would have to guard opposing forwards on the break.

Not to mention that it means that there is very little ballhandling or passing to take pressure off Tyreke, no three point shooting to stretch the floor and a clogged lane for a guy whose greatest strength is getting to the basket.

Going big that way would mean a congested lane, no quickness for defensive rotations or ability to close out on shooters, bad transition defense and the only real advantage being big. For all that size I don't think it would even be our best rebounding lineup.

The Kings went from their big men (especially center) being a huge weakness to possibly having an abundance of riches depending on how things shake out. But just because the team now has good size and potential at the PF and C doesn't mean they should play guys out of position just to field a huge squad.

This is a good refutation of my points. I agree that you wouldn't do that agianst those two teams, and also after thinking about it, it would be better to do it with Donte at the three, and a good defender at the 2. And no, of course you don't do that against the Suns. But you can do it against a lot of other teams, including the Lakers. And the benefit, especially in playoff games when things slow down and defense tightens up, is that you're not going to give up an easy shot within 15 feet of the basket. You have an elite mobile shot blocker (SD), and you have a big body (DMC) playing post defense with great help defense/weakside shot blocking (SD). Now, re-tooling my idea, with Donte guarding the 3, say Garcia at the two (another good shotblocker) and I would have a hard time coming up with a better defensive lineup against the Lakers. With Tyreke's amazing D, Garcia's solid D, Donte's very good to becoming elite D, it does allow you to really beef up the middle if you have the size, and we do. So, with that, our perimeter is nicely protected, and it's going to be very hard for anyone to get up a shot against us inside 12-15 feet or so, and the closer they get to the basket, the harder it will be. And our rebounding would be very good, another thing that's kinda important in late playoff game situations. On offense, we'll just have to make sure Sammy stays out of the way but crashes for some cleanup. I have a feeling that in those situations Sammy wouldn't really be involved in our offense too much anyway other than clean up, and that in those close, end of game, playoff situations, we'd be relying on Tyreke creating his own shot, DMC creating his own shot down low, or Tyreke and DMC running a two man game, with Donte or Garcia occasionally getting open to hit a shot on a kick out. Again, I'm not talking about playing the Suns in January. I'm talking about playing the Lakers in May.

But hey, it's something we could play with during the regular season just to see how it goes.

 

[Prince_XY]

If you read it he is proposing that Landry also play the 3. And furthermore that Whiteside be the first big off the bench and JT play spot duty, including at the SF spot. And a little further down he suggests that Donte or a summer league player who is a good defender could be at the two and swing to the three if that's who the other team's best wing player is.
Taking all of that into account, you'd have the Kings playing a team like Orlando where Dalembert would guard Howard, Cousins would have to try to guard Rashard Lewis and not be able to stay in front of him OR double down quickly enough to help, Donte would get switched onto Vince Carter and Landry would be running around the perimeter trying to stop JJ Reddick from hitting open threes. Which also means that the only help defender for Donte if Carter takes him off the dribble would be Dalembert which leaves Howard open for dump off passes.
or against at team like the Suns it means Cousins and Landry would have to guard opposing forwards on the break.
Not to mention that it means that there is very little ballhandling or passing to take pressure off Tyreke, no three point shooting to stretch the floor and a clogged lane for a guy whose greatest strength is getting to the basket.
Going big that way would mean a congested lane, no quickness for defensive rotations or ability to close out on shooters, bad transition defense and the only real advantage being big. For all that size I don't think it would even be our best rebounding lineup.
The Kings went from their big men (especially center) being a huge weakness to possibly having an abundance of riches depending on how things shake out. But just because the team now has good size and potential at the PF and C doesn't mean they should play guys out of position just to field a huge squad.

First, you got The Hammer's strategy kind of twisted when you say Dalembert will be the one guarding Dwight Howard. That is not what The Hammer stated. The Hammer was specific that on defense, Cousins will guard the bigger guy - meaning Cousins will be the one guarding the bigger Howard and Dalembert guarding the smaller and quicker Lewis in your chosen scenario.

Second, all the inadequacies that arose in the scenario you chose did not prove that playing both Dalembert and Cousins at the same time will be disadvantageous to the Kings. I think even if you put Bynum and Gasol ( instead of Cousins and Dalembert ) in that scenario you painted we will still end up losing. Landry and Greene getting beat by Carter and JJ Redick has nothing to do with Cousins and Dalembert's inadequacies in your example.

You got me a very clever presentation of your case against playing Cousins and Dalembert at the same time. Sorry, I found your explanation not so convincing. You might want to revise your story where Cousins and Dalembert will be the ones found to be clearly at fault.

 

[funkykingston]

To be fair, I DO think Westphal will tinker with playing Dalembert and Cousins at the same time. I'm not convinced it will reap many benefits but I could see it being a short minutes substitution. And the Lakers would be one area where it might work. Gasol is tough to stop and Bynum is a very big body so perhaps they put Dalembert on Pau and Cousins on Bynam.

I DO think this Kings team is looking like it will be built for grind-it-out playoff basketball and that might mean going very big on occasion. If we do, I agree that Donte at the the 3 and Garcia at the two is much better than Landry/Greene at those spots.

It's all idle talk to pass time in the offseason and I agree that there's no harm in trying it out in the regular season to see if it's a good situational matchup. I DO however hope that Cousins and Dalembert sharing court time is not something that happens a lot or for long stretches of games.

 

[funkykingston]

You got me a very clever presentation of your case against playing Cousins and Dalembert at the same time. Sorry, I found your explanation not so convincing.

Having Dalembert guarding smaller quicker players isn't really any better. Why pull your best shotblocker, one of your best rebounders and an established post defender away from the basket to guard opposing PFs?

I don't have to make a case against playing both of our centers at the same time with one of them out of position. The issues with it are stated in the very premise. You'd be playing one of them out of position. Especially when Dalembert averaged 25 mpg last year and Cousins less than 24 in half as many games as he'll see this year. There are plenty of minutes available at the pivot and four PFs on the roster (Landry, Thompson, Brockman, Whiteside) that offer various skills for the position.

Again, the question is WHY would pairing them together be good? What does it offer that is better than playing them in their natural position with one of the PFs on the team?

Other than size I don't see any advantage. Even in the example of the Lakers I can't say for sure that Dalembert would do a better job defensively on Gasol than Thompson would. But as I said, I could see that pairing being used, perhaps successfully for limited stretches against a very small number of opponents.

But you seem to think it's something Westphal would utilize often. Neither you nor anyone else has yet said what the upside to such a lineup is. The onus is on you to explain why playing one of our centers out of position is a good thing.

 

[Telemachus]

So, are you saying you agree that Whiteside should play PF or what?

Dalembert and Whiteside have two similarities when it comes to strength - shot blocking and rebounding. I guess a lot of people are wrong when they say Dalembert cannot play PF because you are wasting his shotblocking talent and rebounding talent. Asking him to go out and guard a PF on the perimeter not only takes him away from the basket, but makes him somewhat a liability on defense. Just doesn't make any sense if it applies to Dalembert now but not to Whiteside.

I see that you equate all shot-blocking as the same, which it is not. Whiteside was primarily a weakside shot-blocker, while Dalembert is fairly good at both weakside or when guarding his own man. I also wouldn't call Whiteside a great rebounder. He is a player that uses his size and athletic ability to get his rebounds. Lastly, Dalembert and Whiteside are two different types of athletes. Whiteside is much quicker (and more athletic IMO), while Damembert is much stronger and can actually defend the post (which Whiteside can't at the moment). I would also point out that Whiteside's offense is mainly dunking the ball and a mid-range jumper. Dalembert's offense is limited, but is definitely within 10 ft of the basket.

 

[bajaden]

Don't short change the kid. It was ten.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=46133

Still, he averaged over five blocks a game as a freshman, including one game outbursts of 13, 10 (both against Central Florida) and 11 (Brescia). No more than three personal fouls in any of those three games. Only had 1 block in just one game. More common was 4, 5, 7 ... The kid is a natural shotblocker, and terrific rebounder. All those people saying "we should give up a first rounder for Thabeet or Oden" should be pleased, and we got this guy in the second round. Sure he's raw offensively, but so are those guys.

He won't have a lot of pressure or expectations on him here, as a second rounder. If he can come in for 10-12 minutes here and there and alter a couple of shots and grab a few rebounds, he'll be loved by all.

OK, so it was ten. Still pittiful for an entire season. I also wouldn't get carried away with the rebounding. He was mostly a defensive rebounder, which are the easier one's. And he did it against much smaller competition at Marshall. I don't want to denigrate the Kid. I like him, but I don't want people to expect more than he can produce right now. I was always looking at him as a center, but I agree with the Kings. I think he could be a very good PF. He's athletic enough and quick enough to guard NBA PF's. He needs to get stronger and he needs to get his basketball IQ up to speed. But I can see him and Cousins being a formidable duo in a couple of years.

Now I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would want to play Dalembert at PF. Or Cousins at PF. Whats the point? They're both centers, and now we have three PF's in Thompson, Landry, and Whiteside. So please explain the point of playing one of our centers at PF. I have watched Dalembert play a lot. Back when I proposed trading for him early in the season, I started watching a lot of games to see if I would really want him. So let me make this clear. Dalembert is worthless away from the basket. Especially on offense. But even defensively, he's uncomfortable away from the basket. What you have in him is a player thats very good at playing goalie. Thats what he does! Thats his bailywick. So why in the hell would you take away from the place his strength lies and put him in the position to be abused by quick PF's and guards in pick switches. He'll get enough of that at center, showing in the pick and roll, which by the way is his weakness on defense.

I don't know why I'm even debating this because its not going to happen. Westphall isn't that stupid.

 

[bajaden]

But lets be honest here guys ... Cousins wasn't drafted as high as he was because of his defense. He has tremendous upside there as well, but once again we are talking about potential. Can someone more knowledgeable than me inform me what exactly his strengths and weakness' are on defense? I know he said thats an area of his game he wants to improve.

Not much has been said about Cousins defense. I think its fairly normal that when a player is such a good offensive player, his defensive contributions get overlooked. Kentucky played man to man most of the time. Ironicly they played against a zone most of the time. Kentucky had a very athletic team with Wall, Patterson, Cousins, Bledsoe etc. So they had the bodies to play man to man. And I thought Cousins did a good job. He needs work on team defense. But not many players come into the NBA up to speed on defense.

What I thought was strange, is that Favors is considered a shotblocker and Cousins isn't. The strange part is that their blocks per minute are almost identical. I think once Cousins gets into NBA shape and understands how defense works in the NBA. In other words, what you can and can't do, or get away with. I think he has the potential to be a very good defender. In college, his man defense was excellent. He understands the post game and the positioning. That helps you on defense as well as offense. He has a very strong lower body and in college was virtually unmovable in the post. He understands leverage.

Don't get me wrong. He'll go through a learning period. But down the road I see him as not just a decent defender, but a very good defender. His biggest problem this coming season is going to be fouls. I think being in great shape will help elliminate some of that. But most rookies go through a period where it seems everything they do is a foul. Hopefully his frustration won't get the best of him.

 

[The Hammer]

Having Dalembert guarding smaller quicker players isn't really any better. Why pull your best shotblocker, one of your best rebounders and an established post defender away from the basket to guard opposing PFs?

I don't have to make a case against playing both of our centers at the same time with one of them out of position. The issues with it are stated in the very premise. You'd be playing one of them out of position. Especially when Dalembert averaged 25 mpg last year and Cousins less than 24 in half as many games as he'll see this year. There are plenty of minutes available at the pivot and four PFs on the roster (Landry, Thompson, Brockman, Whiteside) that offer various skills for the position.

Again, the question is WHY would pairing them together be good? What does it offer that is better than playing them in their natural position with one of the PFs on the team?

Other than size I don't see any advantage. Even in the example of the Lakers I can't say for sure that Dalembert would do a better job defensively on Gasol than Thompson would. But as I said, I could see that pairing being used, perhaps successfully for limited stretches against a very small number of opponents.

But you seem to think it's something Westphal would utilize often. Neither you nor anyone else has yet said what the upside to such a lineup is. The onus is on you to explain why playing one of our centers out of position is a good thing.

Well, we will have to get a feel for what kind of defender SD actually is... but at least the potential benefit is locking down the area within 15 feet of the basket to both penetration and big men post moves. Tremendous interior defensive presence, shot blocking, and rebounding, and those really becoming valuable in a half court grind it out game against teams that have very strong post presences. If we can still have three very good perimeter defenders, it's a win. I think you are nit picking if you are simply saying it's wrong to have a center out of position. It matter much more the style of the game, the setting, and the opponent.

 

[bajaden]

So, are you saying you agree that Whiteside should play PF or what?

Dalembert and Whiteside have two similarities when it comes to strength - shot blocking and rebounding. I guess a lot of people are wrong when they say Dalembert cannot play PF because you are wasting his shotblocking talent and rebounding talent. Asking him to go out and guard a PF on the perimeter not only takes him away from the basket, but makes him somewhat a liability on defense. Just doesn't make any sense if it applies to Dalembert now but not to Whiteside.

Whiteside and Dalembert aren't even close to being alike. Other than both are shotblockers and both are 6'11"/7', thats where the similarity ends. Preytell, what kind of offense are you expecting from Dalembert when he standing 17 feet away from the basket. His jumpshot is very erratic, and you don't want him handling the ball out there. Thats a turnover waiting to happen. On the other hand, Whiteside actually handles the ball pretty well, and has a nice jumpshot from 15 to 17 feet. He's capable of putting the ball on the floor and driving to the basket. Dalembert can't do that. Whiteside's biggest weakness is his poor passing abiltiy. I don't look at it as a long term liability, but in the short term it will limit what he can and can't do on the offensive end. Even defensively, he doesn't have an outlet pass. I think someone mentioned that Whitesides post game was not quite as good as Cousins. That comment is almost laughable. I'll just let it go with that. Defensively, Whiteside would have trouble in man defense in the post. Thats probably why the Kings see him as a PF. The two times he had to guard someone as big as he was but heavier, he got killed.

 

[Megalodon]

Thanks for the replies to my question Telemachus and Bajaden, I appreciate it

 

[Prince_XY]

I see that you equate all shot-blocking as the same, which it is not. Whiteside was primarily a weakside shot-blocker, while Dalembert is fairly good at both weakside or when guarding his own man. I also wouldn't call Whiteside a great rebounder. He is a player that uses his size and athletic ability to get his rebounds. Lastly, Dalembert and Whiteside are two different types of athletes. Whiteside is much quicker (and more athletic IMO), while Damembert is much stronger and can actually defend the post (which Whiteside can't at the moment). I would also point out that Whiteside's offense is mainly dunking the ball and a mid-range jumper. Dalembert's offense is limited, but is definitely within 10 ft of the basket.

Ok.

So, I guess what you are saying is that Whiteside had those ( shot blocks and those times he's got more than 10 rebounds ) while he was forced to guard players on the perimeter and away from the paint. If that is the case, then playing him "power forward" won't really take away his "potential strength" of shot blocking and rebounding. Is that what you are trying to say?

Did he play basically power forward in the NCAA?

 

[Telemachus]

Ok.

So, I guess what you are saying is that Whiteside had those ( shot blocks and those times he's got more than 10 rebounds ) while he was forced to guard players on the perimeter and away from the paint. If that is the case, then playing him "power forward" won't really take away his "potential strength" of shot blocking and rebounding. Is that what you are trying to say?

Did he play basically power forward in the NCAA?

Whiteside played center for Marshall, but against much smaller competition most of the time. This is why I am pointing out the diffenence in the shot-blocking abilities of him and Dalembert. Dalembert's strength defensively is in the paint. He is a good post defender and good at playing goalie. OTOH, once he gets away from the basket he is very suspect defensively against anyone with even average quickness. He is more likely to play off his man and try to stay closer to the paint (so you better hope his man isn't a good shooter, which is something PFs are usually better at than centers). Whiteside is much quicker than Dalembert which should help him to stay with the quicker PFs on defense and the same quickness and athleticism help him to get most of his blocked shots when coming to help out his teammates. However, he is a very poor post defender. He doesn't get position very well, and gets overpowered way too easily. This is one of the reasons he needs to improve his strength (a lot). On the offensive end of the court, Whiteside's skills are actually much more like that of a PF than a center. He doesn't have much of a post game, but does have a decent outside shot and good ball handling skills. All these things put together make it look like his natural position will be PF. If he can get stronger and develop a post game, I can see him playing some center down the road. As of right now, he could only do so in short stretches IMO. If the Kings needed him to play there for extended minutes, the opposing team would start to take advantage of his weaknesses.

Obviously, he is very young and will hopefully improve over the next few years and then this discussion could go in a whole different direction.

 

[Prince_XY]

To be fair, I DO think Westphal will tinker with playing Dalembert and Cousins at the same time. I'm not convinced it will reap many benefits but I could see it being a short minutes substitution. And the Lakers would be one area where it might work. Gasol is tough to stop and Bynum is a very big body so perhaps they put Dalembert on Pau and Cousins on Bynam.
I DO think this Kings team is looking like it will be built for grind-it-out playoff basketball and that might mean going very big on occasion. If we do, I agree that Donte at the the 3 and Garcia at the two is much better than Landry/Greene at those spots.
It's all idle talk to pass time in the offseason and I agree that there's no harm in trying it out in the regular season to see if it's a good situational matchup. I DO however hope that Cousins and Dalembert sharing court time is not something that happens a lot or for long stretches of games.

I fully agree with you regarding the bolded statements. You have quite shown you are flexible too and not at all acting as someone all-knowing. And just like you, I think those proponents of Cousins/Dalembert pairing also believes it might and might not work on every team that we play against. I just hate it when people mock the idea as if it is so stupid to even try and as if they know everything and they have coached in the NBA.

 

[Prince_XY]

Whiteside and Dalembert aren't even close to being alike. Other than both are shotblockers and both are 6'11"/7', thats where the similarity ends.

Nobody says they are close to being similar. What was said was that Dalembert and Whiteside have two similarities when it comes to strength - shot blocking and rebounding.

Actually both qualities are their standout qualities that make them good basketball players. Of course when it comes to rebounding, one is already a proven legit NBA rebounder and the other one is a rookie who has shown "potential" of being a good rebounder. If some people say Dalembert cannot play PF because you are wasting his shotblocking talent and rebounding talent. Asking him to go out and guard a PF on the perimeter not only takes him away from the basket, but makes him somewhat a liability on defense. Again, it just doesn't make any sense if it applies only to Dalembert, but not to Whiteside. We are talking about shot blocking and rebounding here which happens to be both players' greatest strength. I cannot believe what applies to one did not apply to the other in this case.

Or maybe because Whiteside made those shot blocking in the NCAA away from the basket?