bajaden
Hall of Famer
Really! Pappa G? Your better than that. I'll give you Hawes. I thought he would be better than he turned out. Hawes problem was between his ears, not his talent. But please, don't cherry pick....
DeAaron Fox
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
Really! Pappa G? Your better than that. I'll give you Hawes. I thought he would be better than he turned out. Hawes problem was between his ears, not his talent. But please, don't cherry pick....
sactowndog
All-Star
Well if you are referring to my optimism about Giles it stems from published comments from many Kings players and personal comments by members of the Kings front office. When they say he is the Kings best player right now I tend to take notice. What I saw in summer league didn’t counter that point.
As for Fox, as the point guard I agree he is a very important piece. Whether he is number 1 in upside is debatable but not a debate I want to have as it is almost entirely opinion based.
sactowndog
All-Star
There is a long list of players one can point to but none are relevant if Vlade didn’t draft them. I’m even willing to give Vlade a pass on 15 (just started) and 16 (crappy draft). But 17 is an important draft and Vlade’s legacy will be as much defined by Fox, Jackson and Giles as the 18 draft of Bagley.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well his comment wasn't directed at Vlade, but at those like me who expound on the virtues, or lack there of, of future NBA players. In that regard, I thought bringing up a player that I, and probably no one on the forum had heard of (Poppa G) was a bit over the top. That said, I agree with your last sentence. Those picks will either make or break Vlade.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Yeah, I forgot that Vlade was also quoted as saying he passed on Mitchell because he drafted Fox. That one's a bummer, especially since we brought him in multiple times, so the pre draft interest was real.
I'm not really that tore up about missing out on Markennan, he looks like a player, but we have bigs for days. And Smith? He wasn't any better than Fox last season.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Yeah you're right. Hawes and Pappa G are extremely relevant to De'Aaron Fox. I didn't think of that! Peas of the same pod.
Translation; speculate on unknown variables and chide anyone who disagrees while pretending the nature of this conversation isn't pseudointellectual.
sactowndog
All-Star
I’m don’t think we have a big that shoots like Markennan. But I agree on Smith though his advanced stats are better I believe.
Markkanen is who I wanted at #10 after we took Fox at #5. He would have been a nice fit.
That said, I have a ton of hope for Giles.
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah me too. We may have lucked out with Giles which seems to be Vlade’s MO.
1) Doesn’t tank and still gets 2.
2) Swings and misses on multiple free agents and somehow Beli falls into his lap after agreeing with another team.
Guessing 3 may be....
3) lucks out with Giles after passing on Laurie at 5. Remember Vlade also liked Mitchell and could have easily gone 5) Markennan and 10) Mitchell.
Pure speculation on my part but I wonder if our director of Scouting and player development may be job hunting because he argued Fox at 5 and Markennan would be there at 10.
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
Really depends on the offense too. Joerger likes to run a lot of set offenses, usually, based on what I've seen, the main offense is a lot of double post, with three out, with one of the three out inside the 3 point line. The problem with this offense is that when the point guard breaks down his defender you have 3 guys on his team kind of standing around inside the perimeter taking up space. For Fox to really be at his most effective we need to utilize more motion offenses. Not only do these offenses utilize more ball movement and usually leads to better shots, it's also opens the floor up more by keeping multiple players cutting around the three point line with the bigs constantly setting screens at the top of the key. We should be running this offense anyway since it's the way the game is played now, but we should especially be prioritizing it simply because it would allow Fox to maximize his skillset.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Your the only one I’m seeing who questions Fox at 5. PG is an important position, and Fox (of SL, clutch moments, first few weeks of last season) playing to his potential ‘can’ be better than Markannen. We had two SGs in Hield/Bogdan and Mitchell was nowhere near a 5 consensus pick. Maybe at 10, but with two SGs I understand the logic (though not on a lot of Vlade’s other moves)
He should never be at fault for passing on Mitchell for Fox, Donic on the other hand is a different story.
Larry David
Starter
Between, as in range. I’m sure your Tyreke, IT, Ben Mac and Kevin Martin projections were spot on like most here as well
sactowndog
All-Star
I’m not arguing against Fox at 5. I’m admittedly speculating why our Director of player development/ head of scouting was fired last year.
Way to early to know but early returns would indicate a Markennan at 5 and Mitchell at 10 draft would have been pretty impressive. I have reasons to believe it could well have been an option under consideration.
sactowndog
All-Star
Don’t think that is what was said. The speculated other option was taking Markkanen at 5 and then taking Mitchell at 10.
Yes, because Doncic has been tearing up the regular season. Oh, wait. Maybe we should actually let the recently-drafted players get a couple years under their belts before we start drawing and quartering the front office.
I've said it before. The draft is a gamble. Doncic could fail to adjust to the NBA game or he could be an all-star in 4 years. Same with any player. Nobody knows.
Larry David
Starter
Bagley would need to tear up te league to justify passing on a 6’8 wing playmaker who can play 1-4.
We would’ve rioted if we took Markkanen over Fox
sactowndog
All-Star
True and as of this moment Markkanen looks like the far better pick. Just goes to show the dangers of the popular choice.
The Doncic legend keeps growing. By the time the season starts, Doncic is going to be a first ballot hall of famer.
Just to keep things balanced, and I preferred Doncic in the draft followed by Bagley, the team that employs Doncic’s Euro coach passed on him, the team that with the GM that knows him best passed on him, the team that picked him traded him down for a guy, Trae Young, who may have been the most risky lotto pick.
Just to keep things balanced, and I preferred Doncic in the draft followed by Bagley, the team that employs Doncic’s Euro coach passed on him, the team that with the GM that knows him best passed on him, the team that picked him traded him down for a guy, Trae Young, who may have been the most risky lotto pick.
TaxMan
Starter
So, trading back from 10 to get more assets and still getting one of the guys they apparently loved at 10 (Giles), strategically red-shirting him for a year and expertly managing his rehab, is now "luck". And, if you're so adamant to pound the luck angle, why would they have taken Markennan at 5? Wouldn't the smart GM have taken Mitchell at 5 because he's clearly the better player? .....hindsight is always fun to play with. I would have loved to have seen the reaction on this site had they taken Markennan at 5. You think the national media ridicule for taking Bagley over Doncic was bad, this site would have imploded. You probably don't remember the crap the Bulls took for that pick.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I like the objectivity in this post. You can want one guy over another, but sometimes the hyperbole on one side or the other is just too much.
As a second year player it is hard to say where he will end up. At this stage I would put Hield, Bogdan,, Bagley and Giles in the same group with Fox.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't know if this is a shot at me or not, but I'm assuming it is, since I've used those terms many times. Frankly, I'm really, really tired of arguing with people. I just wasted my time for the last 5 or 6 days drawing up my college team charts for the coming season. Renewed my subscription to the European basketball channel as well to the SEC, ACC, BTN, and Pac 12 channels. All that, so I can hopefully have a valid opinion on players that we may or may not draft.
No, I'm not right all the time. Who the hell is? The question I'm asking myself right now, is why bother? I'm 77 years old, and I'm sure some of the younger people on this forum think I'm over the hill, and should be sent to the graveyard of prehistoric animals. I'm starting to think they're right. I've recovered from a heart attack and just recently had cataract surgery on both eye's. Which by the way, is like a miracle. The bottom line is, I'm not sure I have the energy to continue doing this. Even more importantly, I'm losing my desire to do it.
The old saying is, the older you get, the less you suffer fools. I guess I've arrived.... Maybe I just need to recharge my batteries. In the meantime, Ozymandias is a very knowledgeable amigo whose very capable of replacing me. Whether it be temporary or permanently. Hey, we all have to go eventually, right? I hope you all enjoy the rest of your summer. Go Kings!
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sactowndog
All-Star
I’m not really worried about the “site reaction” and I don’t think Vlade was either. I know they liked Markennan and I suspect they thought they might get him at 10. They didn’t get him but in retrospect may consider themselves fortunate based on Giles play.
You are very much appreciated around here. There are always a couple of people who violate our First Rule (Don't Be a Jerk). Please do not let them dissuade you from continuing to share your expertise and your thoughts. Put the people who irritate you on IGNORE. It will save your sanity, believe me.
I never used to pay attention to prospects or college players. Because of you I feel as though I've had another window into the game opened for me. PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE.
We would be in the playoffs if the Kings just took the popular fan choice in the draft for the last 10 years. StR had an article on it a while back and we would have a pretty solid team right now. Not a championship contender but a perennial playoff team.
Aside from the fact that I've lost count of the number of times you've made such posts, I think you need to separate criticism of your opinion from criticism of you, personally. Nobody thinks you're over the hill or anything like that, or that they don't value the perspective you bring. Heck, I certainly still want you around on this board.
I am simply saying that you seem to use this idea of confidence and mindset only as and when it fits your argument. It's like someone who says stats are dumb but then uses stats when they show a player he likes is better than another.
