De'Aaron Fox:

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Kingsfan23 said:
I think Fox somewhere became the sure shot in the draft for Kings fans, but his flags, weighing 170/shooting/playmaking numbers certainly point to him being fallible.

He has flags like the other prospects, and I can see a scenario where the Kings pass on him if he is there at 5
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First off, the kid is 19 1/2. He's 4.5% body fat. He will fill out a bit. Besides, if Steph Curry can get to the basket and finish at his weight, I'm not worried about Fox. This isn't the old NBA. You can't hand check anymore or make too much contact.

While you're correct that Fox has "flags" like other prospects, he has less than most and, unlike most, at least possesses one elite skill.
It's highly unlikely the Kings pass on him @5 if he's there. The only way that happens, IMO, is if Josh Jackson is on the board too. I suppose we'll find out soon enough though.

sidney said:
Honestly, I'm still pretty worried about Fox's shot. There are plenty of guys (Rubio, Rondo, Tyreke) who don't just fix it no matter what they try or the coaching they get.
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Actually, Tyreke did improve his shot. It wasn't ever great, but passable. You must not have followed him too closely after he left Sac.
 
Čarolija said:
I just find it staggering how people underrate Tatum because he doesn't play the "modern" type of game and is old school. Seriously people. The kid is a very capable scorer who could come into the NBA and average 20ppg in his rookie year and give ROY a real shake.

When Kings traded away Boggie, my hope was that with the two picks, Kings walk away from whe draft with Fox and Tatum. That now seems unlikely but if we somehow manage to do it, then that is a massive jump start to the rebuild when you add those two to Skal, WCS and Buddy.

I am hoping that Tatum continues to be underrated and passed by other teams all the way to pick 10. If Kings get Fox at 5 and Tatum at 10, that is pants down, lap around the table time. Would be HUGE winners out of the draft.
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I'm not too high on Tatum but after last year, would be willing to give anyone a chance - I was pretty annoyed with the trade-down / PapaG and was wrong about that. I just like many of the PGs in this draft (Ball, Fox, Smith Jr, Evans). Yes Tatum would be a great pick - a steal even- at 10. The Kings would be fairly foolish to pass him at 10. He will not drop past 8 I think - I would be surprised if so....and the Celtics may take him at 3 anyway if the Lakers take Jackson. Tatum is a polished looking shooter - especially from mid-range -that's not easy to find.. T-Minus 4 days! Anticipation is as big as since picking Tyreke Evans.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
First off, the kid is 19 1/2. He's 4.5% body fat. He will fill out a bit. Besides, if Steph Curry can get to the basket and finish at his weight, I'm not worried about Fox. This isn't the old NBA. You can't hand check anymore or make too much contact.

While you're correct that Fox has "flags" like other prospects, he has less than most and, unlike most, at least possesses one elite skill.
It's highly unlikely the Kings pass on him @5 if he's there. The only way that happens, IMO, is if Josh Jackson is on the board too. I suppose we'll find out soon enough though.



Actually, Tyreke did improve his shot. It wasn't ever great, but passable. You must not have followed him too closely after he left Sac.
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I'm as worried about the 170 on team defense as much as anything. Curry wasn't that weight coming in

I get the fact that you like him, and a lot of others seem to, but again he is a prospect that can hit or not. I'm not seeing how he separated himself or how he will make or break the draft personally, which seems to be his status on KF.

But it's the draft, I think a lot of fanbases seem to grow affections for certain players.
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I'm as worried about the 170 on team defense as much as anything. Curry wasn't that weight coming in

I get the fact that you like him, and a lot of others seem to, but again he is a prospect that can hit or not. I'm not seeing how he separated himself or how he will make or break the draft personally, which seems to be his status on KF.

But it's the draft, I think a lot of fanbases seem to grow affections for certain players.
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Curry was also 21 years old..
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I'm as worried about the 170 on team defense as much as anything. Curry wasn't that weight coming in

I get the fact that you like him, and a lot of others seem to, but again he is a prospect that can hit or not. I'm not seeing how he separated himself or how he will make or break the draft personally, which seems to be his status on KF.

But it's the draft, I think a lot of fanbases seem to grow affections for certain players.
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I think it's a combination of things. Do you want a PG that has to have the ball in his hands? Do you want your PG to push the ball up the floor. I'd say that with Hield, Willie, and Skal, along with Fox, you have a team that can get up and down the floor. My first choice would be Fultz, but there's no way we can get him. Ball is the perfect guy if you want a great passer with vision, but he never ran the pick and roll at UCLA, and wasn't as effective in the half court as he was in transition. Defensively he struggled to keep Fox in front of him, which doesn't bode well for the NBA.

Smith has all the tools to be great, but I just can't get past him quitting on his team at times. There were times when he didn't get the ball and seemed to go into a pout. Don't think a PG with that attitude is what this team needs. Ntilikina is a reach at five, so that leaves Fox as the best all around fit. I think Ball could be a good fit as well, but his defense concerns me. Fox can and does defend, and I'm not worried that much about his current weight. He'll get stronger. I think a top PG is harder to find than a SF, so that's why I would lean toward Fox even if Tatum is there at five.
 
The appeal with Fox is that his weaknesses (shooting, strength) can be developed with time and effort and he's got strengths (speed with the ball, first step, defensive intensity, leadership ability) that are impossible to teach. He's not a perfect prospect of course. He doesn't have John Wall's incredible combination of speed and power for instance or Lonzo Ball's almost superhuman ability to get the ball in exactly the right spot from all sorts of angles but what I don't question with Fox is his commitment to doing whatever it takes to win and his knowledge of the game. Listen to this guy's interviews, he's thinking the game on a level that very few 19 year olds are capable of. When you watch him on the court and see how he picks up full court defense on every possession and how impossible he is to stay in front of when he has the ball and you add to that his off the court personality and intensity and I think that's a guy who would help us a lot. Something that tends to get forgotten every year as we rank these guys based on their skills is that a team isn't just made up of basketball players, it's made up of people with personalities. And that's what makes me such a big Fox fan. He's more solid starter than superstar but to the extent that team chemistry is a factor, I think he's a good fit for us.

I really pushed for Elfrid Payton and Emmanuel Mudiay and I can see where the lack of success those two guys have had so far would give people pause when it comes to evaluating Fox. Payton hasn't been bad, he's actually been quite good at times, but he hasn't been able to contribute consistently and his shooting percentages are really holding him back overall. He's a valuable player though who could actually be one of the better PGs in the league if he learned to shoot with consistency. Mudiay is a little harder to figure out. His shooting hasn't just been bad it's been awful to such an extent that it overshadows everything else he does. I watched him a lot leading up to the draft and most of his production in High School and the year he spent in China came from driving to the basket and finishing around the defense, pulling up for midrange jumpers, or kicking out to shooters. The difficulty for him has been the increased size and athleticism he encounters in the paint against NBA defenses. He hasn't been able to finish inside, he hasn't been able to create enough space to get clean midrange looks, and he's turning the ball over at an alarming rate trying to force passes that aren't there. Things couldn't be going much worse. Ideally you'd want to see him in an uptempo offense with lots of off the ball movement so I don't think the team situation there is doing him any favors either.

What does this mean for Fox? Well first of all, I think Fox is already a better ballhandler than either Payton or Mudiay. We've seen with Jimmer and Ben in particular how important ballhandling ability is for a guard. If you can't get to where you want on the floor without turning the ball over than it's hard to get in any kind of a rhythm offensively. Conversely, Tyreke Evans won rookie of the year primarily on the strength of his ball handling and physicality. The good news for Fox is that his driving and finishing ability was so good as a freshman in college that he's unlikely to struggle the way that Mudiay and Payton have. Fox also has a nice pull-up floater in his arsenal that would do wonders for those two guys. Ultimately there's no way to know, but I think if you look at Fox's speed, ballhandling, and finishing ability in the paint he already has some elite skills on offense which give him a higher floor as a scorer than both Payton and Mudiay. Add to that his off the charts intangibles and you've got a PG prospect worth getting excited about I think. He absolutely has to be better as a jumpshooter than we saw this year but in the context of the draft where every pick carries some risk, I think that's an acceptable risk in this case. If you're looking at Isaac and Smith Jr. at pick 5, both of those guys have higher overall potential if they put it all together but can you teach aggressiveness and situational awareness in Isaac's case or defensive intensity and leadership ability in Smith's? Those seem like riskier bets to me. And neither one of them has blown up social media promoting Sacramento as a basketball destination either.
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I'm as worried about the 170 on team defense as much as anything. Curry wasn't that weight coming in
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Again, he's 19. He won't be 19 forever. And now he'll be managed by a professional training staff. I really think you're worried about nothing.

Kingsfan23 said:
I get the fact that you like him, and a lot of others seem to, but again he is a prospect that can hit or not. I'm not seeing how he separated himself or how he will make or break the draft personally, which seems to be his status on KF.

But it's the draft, I think a lot of fanbases seem to grow affections for certain players.
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I like Josh Jackson a lot too. And I recognize that he's not a perfect player either. None of these kids are. To me, it's about going with the player that has the highest upside, along with the lowest risk. It's also about fit. I know the majority have bought into Fultz as the clear cut #1. But if I had #1, I would take Jackson or Fox. To me, they are not only elite prospects, but are capable of playing both ends of the court at a high level. Isaac is another player that might end up as one of those types of players too, but I feel the risk is much higher with him than Jackson or Fox. Malik Monk is another player that could make everyone regret not selecting him, should a team be successful in converting him to a ball handler.
 
Great, and Chicago needs a PG too. Why didn't they just trade Butler last year for Dunn like everyone expected them to? Not happy.
 
Yeah, I'm just gonna assume we get Bulls blocked on Fox. Jerks.

Smith and whoever at 10 isn't the end of the world.
 
I saw a report on ESPN tonight that said to pay attention to Minnesota with regard to Jimmy Butler. They speculated that Kris Dunn (who the Bulls are said to really like) and #7 might get the ball rolling. Let's hope so, because I don't want the Bulls landing ahead of the Kings.

As I said weeks ago, to get the player they really covet (whomever that really is) -- the Kings may very well have to trade up.
 
You can do it Minny!

I can see Thibs going hard after his guy. KAT/Wiggins/Jimmy..... man, they're gonna break their post season drought before us!

Would much prefer that to us getting snaked out of Fox.
 
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bajaden said:
I think it's a combination of things. Do you want a PG that has to have the ball in his hands? Do you want your PG to push the ball up the floor. I'd say that with Hield, Willie, and Skal, along with Fox, you have a team that can get up and down the floor. My first choice would be Fultz, but there's no way we can get him. Ball is the perfect guy if you want a great passer with vision, but he never ran the pick and roll at UCLA, and wasn't as effective in the half court as he was in transition. Defensively he struggled to keep Fox in front of him, which doesn't bode well for the NBA.

Smith has all the tools to be great, but I just can't get past him quitting on his team at times. There were times when he didn't get the ball and seemed to go into a pout. Don't think a PG with that attitude is what this team needs. Ntilikina is a reach at five, so that leaves Fox as the best all around fit. I think Ball could be a good fit as well, but his defense concerns me. Fox can and does defend, and I'm not worried that much about his current weight. He'll get stronger. I think a top PG is harder to find than a SF, so that's why I would lean toward Fox even if Tatum is there at five.
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What I would really like is to have players that can get the ball up and down the floor - with the pass. Last time I checked, the ball can be thrown down the floor faster than anybody in the NBA can run down the floor. God, I'm so old school. Another "old school" thing I'd like to see is players using the backboard on wing shots from intermediate range. Probably will have to wait for another lifetime before I see that...
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
I saw a report on ESPN tonight that said to pay attention to Minnesota with regard to Jimmy Butler. They speculated that Kris Dunn (who the Bulls are said to really like) and #7 might get the ball rolling. Let's hope so, because I don't want the Bulls landing ahead of the Kings.

As I said weeks ago, to get the player they really covet (whomever that really is) -- the Kings may very well have to trade up.
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Makes you wonder who Chicago would want at 7. If Dunn is part of the deal it would seemingly rule out Smith, Ntilikina and possibly Monk.

Collins? Markkanen? Tatum or Isaac if they fall?

Pretty much the same targets I figured Minny would go after so it might not affect the Kings draft plans at all. That would be nice.
 
funkykingston said:
Makes you wonder who Chicago would want at 7. If Dunn is part of the deal it would seemingly rule out Smith, Ntilikina and possibly Monk.

Collins? Markkanen? Tatum or Isaac if they fall?

Pretty much the same targets I figured Minny would go after so it might not affect the Kings draft plans at all. That would be nice.
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Yes, it might. They are high on Collins. At least now I can believe the Wolves can think of KAT as a center, and therefore not a match
 
There are a few teams out there really trying to muck it up for the Kings.

I've read reports this morning that Ainge is trying to pry Porzingis away from the Knicks and they are listening. The price point is really high, but we all know that Boston has the goods to get something done. So the Knicks could wind up with #3 and #8 in that scenario. The same report said they really like Josh Jackson, so perhaps it wouldn't destroy the Kings hopes of getting Fox.

However, the Cavs are looking for a 3rd team to help facilitate a Jimmy Butler deal and that would likely put the Bulls ahead of the Kings. If that happens, Jackson and Fox would both be more likely to be gone by #5. The Suns are also said to be involved in some of this trade talk.

I don't like hearing any of this at all. I just hope none of it comes to pass before or during the draft. We need the status quo to continue. I really don't want the Kings to get screwed by the trade swap with Philly more than they already have.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
There are a few teams out there really trying to muck it up for the Kings.

I've read reports this morning that Ainge is trying to pry Porzingis away from the Knicks and they are listening. The price point is really high, but we all know that Boston has the goods to get something done. So the Knicks could wind up with #3 and #8 in that scenario. The same report said they really like Josh Jackson, so perhaps it wouldn't destroy the Kings hopes of getting Fox.

However, the Cavs are looking for a 3rd team to help facilitate a Jimmy Butler deal and that would likely put the Bulls ahead of the Kings. If that happens, Jackson and Fox would both be more likely to be gone by #5. The Suns are also said to be involved in some of this trade talk.

I don't like hearing any of this at all. I just hope none of it comes to pass before or during the draft. We need the status quo to continue. I really don't want the Kings to get screwed by the trade swap with Philly more than they already have.
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I don't know why Boston would help Cleveland get Butler when they reportedly want him. And I'm not sure what the Cavs have that Phoenix would want.
 
funkykingston said:
I don't know why Boston would help Cleveland get Butler when they reportedly want him. And I'm not sure what the Cavs have that Phoenix would want.
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Cleveland is looking for a team with young assets or draft picks to include in a 3 or 4 way deal. PHX was just one of the teams mentioned. As you implied, they may not have interest. It all depends what other team(s) they can get involved.

I didn't see anything conflicting re: Boston and Cleveland. Boston is looking to acquire Porzingis and the rumored Cleveland/Butler deal wouldn't involve them at all.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Cleveland is looking for a team with young assets or draft picks to include in a 3 or 4 way deal. PHX was just one of the teams mentioned. As you implied, they may not have interest. It all depends what other team(s) they can get involved.

I didn't see anything conflicting re: Boston and Cleveland. Boston is looking to acquire Porzingis and the rumored Cleveland/Butler deal wouldn't involve them at all.
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I know the Cavs want to make big moves but Kevin Love is their only real trade chip. I just don't think he has the value to bring back something major whether it be a high level veteran or a high draft pick.

Think about it this way - would you want the Kings to trade #5 for Kevin Love?

I wouldn't.
 
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Schmoe said:
If other teams muck it up for the Kings, the Kings can only blame themselves for sitting on their hands. But for me, I don't think the Kings can go wrong with any of the consensus top 5.
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or the Kings can stay where they are and let the draft play out, because there will be a player or two that drops and if you prematurely make a trade, it may come back to bite Vlade. These are valuable assets, I think we as a fan base are overthinking these things sometimes. More assets > a good thing.
 
Not sure how other teams can muck this up for the Kings. no matter who is left at 5 will be a genuine top 5 prospect that addresses Kings need whether than is a PG or a SF remains to be seen but Kings can't lose regardless. In fact one could make an argument that it would be better for the Kings to select a SF at 5 and a PG at 10, especially if that PG is Smith.
 
Čarolija said:
Not sure how other teams can muck this up for the Kings. no matter who is left at 5 will be a genuine top 5 prospect that addresses Kings need whether than is a PG or a SF remains to be seen but Kings can't lose regardless. In fact one could make an argument that it would be better for the Kings to select a SF at 5 and a PG at 10, especially if that PG is Smith.
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Yeah, my top five is totally interchangeable... We're in a great spot imo. #10 will be very interesting.
 
roasthawg said:
Yeah, my top five is totally interchangeable... We're in a great spot imo. #10 will be very interesting.
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I'm leaning towards Fox, but I'd be happy with any of the projected top 5 guys too. Moving up in this draft was killer!

At 10, I'm hoping for Collins. KK is a decent trade chip, so having him on the roster shouldn't keep us from drafting a kid with good two way potential.

Is it Thursday yet?!
 
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