Kingsfan23
All-Star
I want to see Richardson and Skal playing this season. No faith in Joerger developing the young guys at the expense of over the hill vets
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Nor should you. That's not why he's here anymore than why Adelman was here. He's not a development coach, he's a coach who wants to win and has never missed the playoffs in the NBA. You want a development coach, you hire some assistant or college coach and let them take their lumps and get fired when you are ready to hire your winning coach.
Richardson and Skal are going to have to climb into the roster/rotation the same way guys on winning teams do. Actually have to beat guys out.
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KingMilz
Guest
Than he would actually be developing the younger players all this talk of culture and playing the right way is total crap the Nets have a ton of good culture guys who play hard and they are 8-30 something. If he's not going for the 8th seed than playing Barnes and company is a total waste of time of course they are trying to make the playoffs because that's what DeMarcus Cousins wants.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No, trying to make the playoffs is about culture change. He wants to create a gritty culture where the team, whoever they might be, believe they can win every game and fight to win every game. No giveup games, development games, and certainly no tanking. Fight and play to win every night and let the chips fall where they may.
kingjatt
Starter
I disagree with Joerger not being a development coach, didnt he spend like 6-7 years or more in the CBA/D-league? thats a big chunk of time in leagues that are all about development. With that being on his resume I think its fair to assume that the FO and fans expect Player Development to be a key element moving forward and we should be concerned if the development is not happening. In fairness to Jorger Willie,Ben are most likely busts,but time, as with the rest of the kids will tell in how effective his player development is. If he cant squeeze one or two rotation level players out of 5-6 kids then there's definately reason to be concerned. Especially with the poverty free agents Sacramento is able to bring in Player development is vital.
Joerger seems to be going all in on the playoffs and riding his vets during this latest stretch(we have lost 6 of 8 during that stretch) so for right now I think its fine to make an all out push for the playoffs but post all star if I keep seeing Collison pound the air out of the ball instead of Malachi getting a look or matt barnes throwing the ball into the 7th row instead of Skal getting some feel for the NBA ill be disappointed and be questioning Joergers player development skills.
I think viewing Joerger as a playoff coach who wont settle for anything(he may be forced to settle in sactown) less is a bit unfair. He inherited Hollins team that was a legit veteran group with proven stars who could play together. That team would have made the playoffs at a minimum no matter who was coaching. Last year you could say that he did a masterful job in getting into the playoffs with all of the injuries but they were 4/5th seed when healthy and barely hung on to secure that 7 seed. Basically backed in.
Joerger seems to be going all in on the playoffs and riding his vets during this latest stretch(we have lost 6 of 8 during that stretch) so for right now I think its fine to make an all out push for the playoffs but post all star if I keep seeing Collison pound the air out of the ball instead of Malachi getting a look or matt barnes throwing the ball into the 7th row instead of Skal getting some feel for the NBA ill be disappointed and be questioning Joergers player development skills.
I think viewing Joerger as a playoff coach who wont settle for anything(he may be forced to settle in sactown) less is a bit unfair. He inherited Hollins team that was a legit veteran group with proven stars who could play together. That team would have made the playoffs at a minimum no matter who was coaching. Last year you could say that he did a masterful job in getting into the playoffs with all of the injuries but they were 4/5th seed when healthy and barely hung on to secure that 7 seed. Basically backed in.
Well then I have some bad news for Joerger..
Swaze
Bench
This isn't a winning team nor is it going to be one anytime soon. You can keep taking about playoffs all you want as if it was actually going to happen but just talking about it over and over won't make it happen. Honestly Brick I think you are more devoted to winning and changing the culture than most of the players on this team.
Based on what I've seen the last few weeks the only rotation players I see on this roster that are actually committed to winning, playing team basketball, and being professional are Temple, Tolliver, and to some extent Koustos. Temple in particular is a class act and deserves better than what he's getting here.
I wish I could say the same about DeMarcus but while he has deserved better for several years now at a certain point he also has to grow up and show leadership skills. He hasn't and won't ever here......that ship has sailed. Cousins has the skills of a champion but the mentality and compusure of a crybaby loser. It takes a high level of each to be a winner.
Whether Joerger wants to develop the kids.......I'm sure he doesn't but going forward blowing it up and truly rebuilding is probably what needs to happen.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
As soon as Cousins verbally committed I became as concerned, if not more concerned, with the top ten protected pick than getting stomped by the Warriors. So I'm more for the youth getting run. Might be subjective
Blob
Starter
If Kings lose to Pacers on Wed, I can see the team getting swept on their 8 game road trip contributing to 16 losses in 18 games. The 76ers are the easiest team on the trip, but come towards the end. They are playing better. The 76er fans will amped for Embiid vs Boogie Round II and we barely squeaked by them at home.
If the Kings end their home stand with a thud and go 0-for on the road, they will run their record to 16-33. Then they can spend the rest of Feb before the trade deadline trying to pawn off their veterans to highest (any) bidder and spend the last 30 games of the season developing their rookies. I don't see any wins on this road trip unless Boogie goes for 30-50 points on high scoring and passing efficiency. It is a sad state of affairs when your best player has to have an epic games because his cast is so weak. Looking at Boogie's splits emphasizes how dominant he has to be for the Kings to win.
In Wins (16 games): Boogie 59% TS 29 PPG 50% on 3s 80% FTs 49% FGs
In Losses (23 games): Boogie 54% TS 27 PPG 31% on 3s 77 FTs 43% FGs.
This split is illuminating. Boogie basically has to make half his FGs, half his threes, 4 out of 5 FTs which equates with 59% TS efficiency. His passing is a tick better in wins vs losses with an assist to turnover ratio of 1.34 vs 1.26. In other words, when Boogie is not super sharp with passes and shooting, MVP level, the team is likely to lose. This "MVP or bust" issue is compounded by fact our 2nd best scorer (Rudy) has been dud in crunch time, Joerger is relying on a washed up 36 year old who launches 4 threes per game at 32%, we start career back-ups at SG and PF, and our 2013 and 2015 lottery picks are DNP-CDs in favor of journeyman.
I'd like to end on a positive, but with team in desperate need of an impactful trade (1) teams will sense desperation (2) the "assets" that the Kings can offer up in trade have depressed to little to no value given recent performance. Here's positive the best I can muster. The Kings are far from the only team dissatisfied with their performance. Perhaps the Kings can capitalize on the dissatisfaction (desperation) as the deadline approaches and make deal in best interest short and long term while balancing their roster. But the time for that trade to position us for playoff push needed to happen a week ago and every day that passes is a lost day for our new acquisition(s) to acclimate and contribute.
A trade that goes down in next 2-3 weeks, even if prudent, will be too late to reverse fortunes and potential to where they would not just be playing out the string. To expect otherwise is making a wish on a star. So much for ending on a positive.
If the Kings end their home stand with a thud and go 0-for on the road, they will run their record to 16-33. Then they can spend the rest of Feb before the trade deadline trying to pawn off their veterans to highest (any) bidder and spend the last 30 games of the season developing their rookies. I don't see any wins on this road trip unless Boogie goes for 30-50 points on high scoring and passing efficiency. It is a sad state of affairs when your best player has to have an epic games because his cast is so weak. Looking at Boogie's splits emphasizes how dominant he has to be for the Kings to win.
In Wins (16 games): Boogie 59% TS 29 PPG 50% on 3s 80% FTs 49% FGs
In Losses (23 games): Boogie 54% TS 27 PPG 31% on 3s 77 FTs 43% FGs.
This split is illuminating. Boogie basically has to make half his FGs, half his threes, 4 out of 5 FTs which equates with 59% TS efficiency. His passing is a tick better in wins vs losses with an assist to turnover ratio of 1.34 vs 1.26. In other words, when Boogie is not super sharp with passes and shooting, MVP level, the team is likely to lose. This "MVP or bust" issue is compounded by fact our 2nd best scorer (Rudy) has been dud in crunch time, Joerger is relying on a washed up 36 year old who launches 4 threes per game at 32%, we start career back-ups at SG and PF, and our 2013 and 2015 lottery picks are DNP-CDs in favor of journeyman.
I'd like to end on a positive, but with team in desperate need of an impactful trade (1) teams will sense desperation (2) the "assets" that the Kings can offer up in trade have depressed to little to no value given recent performance. Here's positive the best I can muster. The Kings are far from the only team dissatisfied with their performance. Perhaps the Kings can capitalize on the dissatisfaction (desperation) as the deadline approaches and make deal in best interest short and long term while balancing their roster. But the time for that trade to position us for playoff push needed to happen a week ago and every day that passes is a lost day for our new acquisition(s) to acclimate and contribute.
A trade that goes down in next 2-3 weeks, even if prudent, will be too late to reverse fortunes and potential to where they would not just be playing out the string. To expect otherwise is making a wish on a star. So much for ending on a positive.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Dave Lack @DaveLack 7m7 minutes ago
Coach Joerger on STH conference call offered up the season to date has been about diagnostics figuring out which players to go forward with
Coach Joerger on STH conference call offered up the season to date has been about diagnostics figuring out which players to go forward with
gunks
Hall of Famer
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Lopes
Guest
The problem is that the players don't play w passion. Always behind in 1Q. Play w low energy. Too many TO. And then the Techs start a comings
kingjatt
Starter
I think being outmatched at 3 or 4 positions on most nights that also contributes to those slow starts.
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Lopes
Guest
And the inability to recover on rotations
Blob
Starter
Joerger had nasty look for James Ham when he dared suggest the team was struggling. Who is this guy fooling with his smugness signifying nothing? I'd link to the video from yesterday but I trust you can find it
I know what this guy is trying to do, control the narrative and defend his guys ...but when you can only beat bad teams on off-nights, require MVP play from Boogie, and your primary strategy is the Rope-a-Dope Strategy (TM), which is to fall behind by 15-20 points, wait for opponent to get disinterested and over-confident, then mount your furious comeback when they least expect it, I'd say you are struggling.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Is he going to stop ruining Omri's career now, or will he keep it up with Barnes?
At this point is it possible for any player to not beat Mclemore out? How can Richardson prove himself unless he gets time? It's ridiculous. The few minutes he has played, he has looked comfortable out there. We have Don Nelson 2.0 on our hands when it comes to player development.
In a tragic twist of fate, Omri's best chance arrived last night with Rudy's injury. If Omri wasn't currently injured, I can state with a fair amount of confidence that he would be getting significant minutes.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have no idea on the McLemore thing. As it has been for most of the past two decades, I always suspect idiot owners running around in the background stamping their feet and preventing the basketball minds from making what seem to me to be completely obvious decisions, but I don't know. Its going on three years now that I've been pretty sure of my read on Ben McLemore, and for me, or any fan, to be that far ahead of people who get paid to judge basketball skills is ludicrous. So I've suspected Vivek meddling with his favored round of applause first pick. Or I've suspected Ben's nice guyness of being SO nice that nobody can tell him no and everybody wants to believe in him SOOOOO bad. But really? Seems a stretch. Or I've suspected showcasing for a trade that never comes. But with Ben, the more you showcase him, the worse the incoming offers get. In any case, the Ben stupidity has been this awful splinter that digs in and digs in for years now, and we long ago blew any chance of getting any value for him, because that is what we do. People always want to hold onto anybody under 25 like its a religion. I think that's dead wrong. Make your read, make your move before anybody else catches on. Be quick or be...well, the Kings.
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glassman
Guest
http://m.memphisflyer.com/Beyondthe...cesses-cast-a-different-light-on-dave-joerger
Super Dave... well after Gays injury it's kinda a moot point. Making the playoffs is turning into a real long shot.
With that said this speaks too the lack of seeing Richardson. Who out of all the young guys really should have been given a look when coach super Dave said he was gonna play him and didn't.
He's got the size, athleticism and seemingly offense we could have and still could use at the SG spot.
He can't possibly be worse than Ben.
Screwy lineups screwy rotations. Didn't cost us the playoffs entirely....just made it all a bit less tolerable
Super Dave... well after Gays injury it's kinda a moot point. Making the playoffs is turning into a real long shot.
With that said this speaks too the lack of seeing Richardson. Who out of all the young guys really should have been given a look when coach super Dave said he was gonna play him and didn't.
He's got the size, athleticism and seemingly offense we could have and still could use at the SG spot.
He can't possibly be worse than Ben.
Screwy lineups screwy rotations. Didn't cost us the playoffs entirely....just made it all a bit less tolerable
Screwy? Then I must be screwy.
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glassman
Guest
Ur so hardline Joerger it's hilarious.
Hey we've had some awful coaches but Joerger is just meh... he's not the worst... just not that good either.
Honestly Malone was good not great... but I'd have to say he's better than Dave and so far the best coach we've had post rick A
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KingMilz
Guest
I said at the NBA level he did not do a good job with young players and the fact he cut James Ennis last year and would not have played Green if it were not for injuries kind of backs that up. Dave is a good coach but yeah the article brings up valid points and the fact we are currently worse off than last year (in a softer WC imo) kind of says it all in particular when the forum thought just a coaching change alone would make us 10-15 wins better.
I don't really think coaching has ever been the issue from Malone onward it's the FO and players this year is further proof of that.
I don't really think coaching has ever been the issue from Malone onward it's the FO and players this year is further proof of that.
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Joerger does have a very short leash with young players. However, the Kings have never felt out of games and have adjusted to come back in second halves many times, so I am not sure I can agree with that criticism in the article. He's also using Cousins on the perimeter just like the writer speaks of with Gasol this year.
My criticisms of Joerger are his rotations and the team lacking energy at times. Team has lost many winnable games.
I think Memphis benefits a lot from having a vet team that's been together for a long time. This is a crew and mindset instilled by Lionel Hollins years ago and no coaching change has messed it up too much.
My criticisms of Joerger are his rotations and the team lacking energy at times. Team has lost many winnable games.
I think Memphis benefits a lot from having a vet team that's been together for a long time. This is a crew and mindset instilled by Lionel Hollins years ago and no coaching change has messed it up too much.
chief bromden
Starter
Interesting article, thanks for posting that. Definitely illuminates why all our young players have been riding the pine for most of the season, including Willie, and even signing Farmar to the 10day instead of giving I. Cousins some run.
I don't think Vivek is reluctant to trade Ben or reduce his playing time. He let Vlade trade Stauskas who he slobbered all over during draft night. Afflalo was brought in as an upgrade. So far, he's been a failure. Grant had in a reporter I think on KHTK who said McLemore ran circles around Richardson during practice, so by default someone has to play SG.
Yeah....the guys been here 41 games but in the article, it says that he didnt let Gasol play outside but he's letting Cousins play outside. And then as far as the young guys go.....lets see what happens on the whole season. I was excited when Karl was hired. I despised him when he left. I like what Joerger is doing so far.
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glassman
Guest
I agree with this minus 2 things... 1 Richardson. Joerger said himself Richardson should get some playing time. That should have happened. The other young guys are not close to ready. 2 is WCS.. developmental coach or not Joerger has failed to wake him up and get him focused on the basics. WCS maybe lost and maybe isn't the smartest. But coach could squeeze a few more box outs, rebounds and blocks out of him.
My last issue is with his bromances with guys like Matt and Koufos.
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