Cousins vs Hassan

A

apollo916

Bench
Im not seeing why Cousins is so much of better as a pick on potential than Hassan. Im telling you, mark my words, Hassan at age 25 will be dominant.
 
Never seen Whiteside play, so I watched some youtube clips of him just now. One thing is for certain. Whiteside is a much more explosive leaper/shotblocker than Cousins. Cousins has a more NBA ready body though. Have they ever gone head to head against each other? How did Whiteside do against other top center prospects?
 
I think Cousins will be a top 5 center, both offensively and defensively. Hassan has a lot of upside, and I think could be a pretty good starting center in a few years, but I don't see star potential with him. IMO, Cousins will be a perennial allstar, and has a body and demeanor built for the playoffs.

If we somehow get stuck picking 5 or 6, and both Favors and Cousins are gone, than I would consider Hassan, but also Alrich.
 
This is NBADraft.net's rankings for center prospects. Surprised to see Whiteside ranked ahead of Aldrich.

"
1. DeMarcus Cousins 6-11 280 PF/C Kentucky Fr. Has mean streak + emotional/maturity issues. How deep does rabbit hole go?
2. Hassan Whiteside 7-0 235 C Marshall Fr. Upside extremely intriguing. Major question marks about desire and maturity.
3. Cole Aldrich 6-11 245 C Kansas Jr. Mechanical/awkward yet effective shooting mechanics. Mature, shot blocker.
4. Larry Sanders 6-10 235 PF/C VCU Jr. Project with a lot of intrigue. 7-7 wingspan allows him to play PF or C.
5. Solomon Alabi 7-1 251 C Florida St. So. Shows potential at both ends. Reflexes and foot speed still a question.
6. Miroslav Raduljica 6-11 240 C FMP Zeleznik 1988 Skilled offensively. Strong season has him on the rise.
7. Jerome Jordan 7-0 245 C Tulsa Sr. His length and touch quickens the pulse. Energy level brings it back down.
8. Art Parakhouski 6-11 260 C Radford Sr. Mid-major standout with touch, has gained interest from scouts.
9. AJ Ogilvy 6-10 250 C Vanderbilt Jr. Bounced back somewhat late in the year but still an under-whelming season.
10. Hamady Ndiaye 7-0 240 C Rutgers Sr. Impressed at PIT. Solid athlete with shot blocking ability."
 
I really like Whiteside vs Cousins as well. He is tall which you can not teach, athletic and has a decent shot. He also is good defensively and led the nation in blocked shots granted he did play at Marshall. He does have a small frame, but most players out of the college ranks do. Cousins while he is a good player seems a little slow not as athletic. Doesnt seem to play with heart and seems a little to ron artest(mentally) for me lol. If we get a top 5 pick I would not take either of them there to be honest. I am in favor of drafting turner if he is available because he is the most complete prospect who is worth a top 5 pick and can fill are hole at the 2. I will be so mad if we draft Wall yea he is good but Tyreke is are point guard and he is a dam good one too. I am hoping we do some trading to garner another pick in the first round in whitch case I would be all over picking Whiteside up.
Starting Lineup
PG- Tyreke Evans/ Beno Udrih
SG- Evan Turner/ (Free Agent to be named later lol)
SF- Donte Green/ Omri Casspi
PF- Jason Thompson/ Carl Landry
C- Hassan Whiteside/ Spencer Hawes(He plays better off bench it seems)

I see a few future All Defensive Team First Team players on are starting 5. That kinda recipe taste like a championship lol.:p

Ps. We should totally pick up patty mills I really liked him in college. He might be a steal considering his injury plagued year and not being able to showcase his skills in Portland.

apollo916 said:
Im not seeing why Cousins is so much of better as a pick on potential than Hassan. Im telling you, mark my words, Hassan at age 25 will be dominant.
Click to expand...
 
Cousins is a much better pick because he has a unique combination of height,length,width,and agility. Cousins is WAYY too quick for a player his size. He has EXCELLENT hands. He would be GREAT in the pick and roll. Hes going to dominate in the NBA in the low block. I feel pretty good about predicting him to be a top 3 center at some point. Dare I say top 1-2 center at some point?
 
apollo916 said:
Apollo says Hassan >>>>> Cousins. Stop calling Hassan, "Whitside." thats like calling kobe , "Bryant" to me ;]
Click to expand...

hahaha, you want us to call Hassan Whiteside by his first name, yet you insist on calling demarcus cousins by his last name. How's that even fair? :p
 
apollo916 said:
athletic and can shoot (besides FT) this kid with the rite developement is a Dwight Howard
Click to expand...

He's also extremely raw offensively, is old for his class, and has character red flags. I mean, he technically has high upside, but the chances of him actually reaching it is very slim. Cousins is a much better prospect than he is and has a better chance of reaching his upside.
 
People act like having a mean streak and beating up the occasional mouthy fan are BAD things to have in a big man. ;)

What a bunch of wusses. As long as he doesn't strangle the coach, well at least the head coach, its all cool. :p
 
I don't even know where to start. First off, if anyone thinks that Cousins is a risk because of his immaturity, then your going to love Whiteside. But that aside. Every time Whiteside came up against a player that was as tall as he was, he got outplayed. And that included his games against Tulsa and Jerome Jordan. Jordan, a player I've knocked because of his lack of aggression on the court, pretty much did whatever he wanted to do against Whiteside. In short, Whiteside is a terrible man defender against guys that are bigger than him. And in the NBA most of the competition will be bigger than him. Cousins would eat him for breakfast right now. If he couldn't keep Jordan at 7 feet and 255 from backing him down, how in the hell would he keep Cousins, who is a lot more aggressive than Jordan and at 6'11' AND 270, from doing whatever he wants under the basket.

Whiteside has one great skill right now. And thats blocking shots. Your talking about a player that is 6'11"/7' and weighs around 215 pounds with a great wingspan. But he's not very strong in the upper or lower body. He has low basketball IQ, and his work ethic has been questioned. He is a terrible passer and once the ball goes into him, one of two things are going to happen. He'll either shoot it or turn the ball over.

He played in 34 games last year. He played 889 minutes in those 34 games, and you know how many assists he had in those 34 games. 10 assists total. Are you kidding me? 889 minutes and only 10 assists. How's that for an unselfish player?

Cousins is just as tall and is much stronger than Whiteside. Cousins is more fundamentaly sound by a long shot than Whiteside is. Cousins is a very good passer, and led college in rebounding. Cousins handles the ball better than Whiteside. So what are you betting on with Whiteside? Upside? And if so, is it based purely on his athleticism? Are you going to pass on a player thats ready to play right now in the NBA for a player that might eventually turn into whatever dream player you might envision. Are you aware that while your betting on that upside, that Whiteside is 1 year and 2 months older than Cousins. So would you agree that he's a little behind the curve for starters.

Personally I think Whiteside should have gone back to school. He's far from ready to play in the NBA, and there is no way I would use a lottery pick on him. He's too big a risk. Unfortunately for him it looks like returning to school wasn't much of an option because he was having trouble accademicly. Or so the rumor goes. Look, my intent is not to beat up Whiteside. He is a very good athletic with very good natural instincts when it comes to shotblocking. But beyond that, there's nothing to get excited about with this kid right now. I certainly think he's worth a first round pick in the bottom half of the round. And getting picked by a playoff team would be the best thing that could happen to him. They wouldn't be expecting much from him for a while, and he would be around veteran players who could teach him the ropes.

But there's no way on god's earth that you would take him over Cousins..
 
Bricklayer said:
People act like having a mean streak and beating up the occasional mouthy fan are BAD things to have in a big man. ;)

What a bunch of wusses. As long as he doesn't strangle the coach, well at least the head coach, its all cool. :p
Click to expand...

At last, a voice of reason...:D
 
I'll defer to those who have actually seen Whiteside.

Cousins is a guy who you don't want to have available when you draft. You don't want to draft him and you don't want to pass on him. You just don't know if his immaturity is temporary or perpetual. Also, he's not a great athlete. Varnado, a long power forward outplayed him (red flag). He either has to be an offensive force on the post or his defensive limitations are going to outweigh his offensive ability. That means the offense has to be geared around him. Maybe he can do that, maybe not. But he's not what I would consider a versatile big man in that regard.
 
Hassan is more defensive, Cousins gets a few more rebounds. Shots are up in the air seeing both can be good. Passing can be learned. Hassans unique athletics will be key to his defensive developement. Idon't care about his 1on1 matchups in college. Im not saying Hassan IS my lottery pick. I do believe he will be better than demarcus. Just being I believe I have the eye for that :]
Cousins is good, but I have the notion hes in his prime in college
 
Can't wait to see what comes out of the draft workouts, where the center prospects can go head to head against one another. That's how Tyreke became the 4th pick, by dominating all the other PGs in those workouts. It'd be interesting to see which center will come the best after workouts this year.
 
apollo916 said:
Hassan is more defensive, Cousins gets a few more rebounds. Shots are up in the air seeing both can be good. Passing can be learned. Hassans unique athletics will be key to his defensive developement. Idon't care about his 1on1 matchups in college. Im not saying Hassan IS my lottery pick. I do believe he will be better than demarcus. Just being I believe I have the eye for that :]
Cousins is good, but I have the notion hes in his prime in college
Click to expand...

Just curious. How many times have you seen either one of these guys play? And by the way, you might not care about one on one matchups in college, but the scouts do. Prey tell, just what are you going on. The only damm thing Whiteside has going for him are his one on one matchups. Until of course he actually comes up against a legitimate NBA body. If he's going to be a good defender, he has to be able to play man on man defense. Or your just looking at a good weakside help defender. I point out that he only had 10 assists in the entire year, and you just discard it by saying passing can be learned. How about I discard his shotblocking and say shotblocking can be learned. Just how stupid does that sound?

Right now Whiteside is relying on his athleticism. I saw guys that were 4 inches shorter than him, but stronger, push him around in the post. And yes, he did block a lot of their shots. But mostly because of his height advantage and athleticism. Hows that going to play the first time he tries to guard someone thats as tall as he is with a good post game. Add to that, there were times when he just looked lost on the floor. As though he didn't know what the offense was running. He reminds me of a taller version of Justin Williams. Another kid that was a good shotblocker, but seemed incapable of learning the game. Guess how many assists he had in his entire stay with the Kings? 3, thats how many. You have to be able to do more than just patrol the paint looking for shots to block.
 
Kingster said:
I'll defer to those who have actually seen Whiteside.

Cousins is a guy who you don't want to have available when you draft. You don't want to draft him and you don't want to pass on him. You just don't know if his immaturity is temporary or perpetual. Also, he's not a great athlete. Varnado, a long power forward outplayed him (red flag). He either has to be an offensive force on the post or his defensive limitations are going to outweigh his offensive ability. That means the offense has to be geared around him. Maybe he can do that, maybe not. But he's not what I would consider a versatile big man in that regard.
Click to expand...

Look, you making a big issue out that last time Cousins and Varnado matched up. And yes Varnado had a very good game, but he accomplished it by doing a great job of denying Cousins the ball. Cousins only took 6 shots in that game and made three of them. He still ended up with 10 points and 10 boards. Wall was having a hard time getting the ball to Cousins, so he went elsewhere. I might add that Varnado had help in denying Cousins the ball.

It was very similar to the last game Radford had against Winthrop. Parakhouski had absolutely killed Winthrop in their two previous meetings, and Winthrop had lost both games. This last game was for making it into the tourney. So whenever Radford was on offense, they had two, and sometimes three players making sure that the ball never got inside to Parakhouski. So after putting up 21 points and 24 points in the first two games, you might think he had a bad game the third time around with only 11 points. But if you were able to see the game, you'd know it had more to do with Winthrop's defensive plan than Parakhouski having a bad game.

So I'll give credit to Varnado. At the time, Mississippi St. had to win every game it had left in order to make the tourney. And I personally was pulling for them. I wanted to see Varnado go up against as much of the top talent as was possible. Unfortunately, despite Varnado playing one of his best games of the year against one of the top centers in college basketball, they still lost to Kentucky. I think Varnado is being underrated. And if he were a couple of inches taller, he would probably be a lottery pick. Because unlike Whiteside, he does know what he's doing out on the floor.
 
Cousins is near 300 pounds, I dont think he will last. I see Greg Oden written all over him. Hassan is the best future true Center of this class. By me saying that I know nothing of each players injury history, enlighten me
 
Hassan : 26min , 13pts , 9rb, 5.4blks, on 52%FG and 2 TO
Cousins: 23min, 15pts, 10rb, 1.8blks 55%FG on 2 TO

#1 how is Hassan MORE turnover prone when Cousins averages more TO's than Hassan? (I JUST ROUNDED NUMBERS UP AND DOWN)

#2 Cousins is no where near Hassan's defensive presence and the offensive numbers are the same?! (dang near)

#3 Hassan is taller, and more athletic, watch this next season.

You speak of Hassan being "dumb" *COUGH* Derrick Rose
 
apollo916 said:
Hassan : 26min , 13pts , 9rb, 5.4blks, on 52%FG and 2 TO
Cousins: 23min, 15pts, 10rb, 1.8blks 55%FG on 2 TO

#1 how is Hassan MORE turnover prone when Cousins averages more TO's than Hassan? (I JUST ROUNDED NUMBERS UP AND DOWN)

#2 Cousins is no where near Hassan's defensive presence and the offensive numbers are the same?! (dang near)

#3 Hassan is taller, and more athletic, watch this next season.

You speak of Hassan being "dumb" *COUGH* Derrick Rose
Click to expand...

sorry but stats in a weak conference don't mean much to me. it's about how their skill translates in the next level meaning banging with the big boys in the pivot position. hassan definitely has the tools (athleticism, height) to become an elite player. will he fulfill it? who knows.. it seems some ppl are questioning whether its worth spending a top 5 pick on potential (myself included).

i like both players but wouldn't take hassan with a top 5 pick when there are other prospects out there. i'm afraid he will slip to the mid 1st round to possibly second round. he has deandre jordan written all over him. big man will jump out of the gym ability but no real skill to his game.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deandre-jordan
 
KMart23 said:
sorry but stats in a weak conference don't mean much to me. it's about how their skill translates in the next level meaning banging with the big boys in the pivot position. hassan definitely has the tools (athleticism, height) to become an elite player. will he fulfill it? who knows.. it seems some ppl are questioning whether its worth spending a top 5 pick on potential (myself included).

i like both players but wouldn't take hassan with a top 5 pick when there are other prospects out there. i'm afraid he will slip to the mid 1st round to possibly second round. he has deandre jordan written all over him. big man will jump out of the gym ability but no real skill to his game.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deandre-jordan
Click to expand...
Not only did Whiteside play in weaker conference, his triple-double came against a college with 300 students. He has excellent potential but at the same time major red flags concerning realizing that potential. Easy pass in top-5. End of the lottery - maybe.
 
Hassan is taller, and more athletic, watch this next season.
Click to expand...

Next season is going to be a horrible one for your argument that Whiteside will be a better pro than Cousins. He's not ready to play big minutes, let alone be a starter.

Run/jump big men are always tantalizing, but adding bulk, developing a post game, learning to use technique rather than just athleticism to rebound are always issues.

Whiteside's best case scenario is being drafted by a team with veteran bigs where he can be brought along slowly. If he's thrown into the fire next season I see him failing. He won't be able to develop his game the way he needs to and will go to his strengths.

The best comparison I can make is Tyson Chandler though Whiteside is older and more raw.

Cousins on the other hand, has an NBA ready game and frame. He needs to obviously improve conditioning, work on his help defense, and generally develop as a big man, but he can bang in the paint and score from day 1.

Whiteside can be a great weakside shotblocker from day 1 and can be a very good help defender in time. But while shotblocking is nice, I really think people over value it. Shotblocking and a big goalie in the paint to contest/alter shots is secondary. What the Kings need from their bigs is the ability to hold position and not get backed down in the paint and easily scored on in the post. And that's something Whiteside currently cannot do and may never be able to do if he can't add significant muscle to his frame.

Obviously what determines whether a player succeeds or fails has a lot to do with their mental and emotional makeup in addition to their physical attributes, but I see as many red flags with Whiteside as Cousins.

Yes, Cousins could end up being Derrick Coleman 2 and Whiteside could be another Kevin Garnett but I don't see it. I'll take the guy that could improve this team from day 1 and not look back.
 
From DraftExpress:

Whiteside’s fundamentals, basketball IQ and overall awareness are well below average, even considering his freshman status. He at times looks out of place in Marshall’s half-court offense, looking as if he’s not quite sure where he should be at any particular moment, which at this late stage in the season makes you wonder about his ability to process an NBA team’s far more complex playbook.

Whiteside had a very difficult time qualifying academically for college, only actually getting into school at age 20, and is reportedly having problems staying eligible now that he’s already there, which will likely leave him no choice but to enter this year’s draft.

“Immature” is the word you hear most often associated with Whiteside both on and off the court, as there will certainly be a large degree of hand-holding and coddling that whichever team drafts him needs to do in order to help him reach his full potential. There are major questions about his work ethic and intensity level, which is a bit concerning considering how far off he currently is from being able to contribute to an NBA team. We also need to keep in mind that despite his freshman status, he’s the same age as many college juniors, turning 21 this upcoming June. This obviously limits his upside to a certain degree.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Hassan-Whiteside-5660/

No thank you.
 
bajaden said:
Look, you making a big issue out that last time Cousins and Varnado matched up. And yes Varnado had a very good game, but he accomplished it by doing a great job of denying Cousins the ball. Cousins only took 6 shots in that game and made three of them. He still ended up with 10 points and 10 boards. Wall was having a hard time getting the ball to Cousins, so he went elsewhere. I might add that Varnado had help in denying Cousins the ball.

It was very similar to the last game Radford had against Winthrop. Parakhouski had absolutely killed Winthrop in their two previous meetings, and Winthrop had lost both games. This last game was for making it into the tourney. So whenever Radford was on offense, they had two, and sometimes three players making sure that the ball never got inside to Parakhouski. So after putting up 21 points and 24 points in the first two games, you might think he had a bad game the third time around with only 11 points. But if you were able to see the game, you'd know it had more to do with Winthrop's defensive plan than Parakhouski having a bad game.

So I'll give credit to Varnado. At the time, Mississippi St. had to win every game it had left in order to make the tourney. And I personally was pulling for them. I wanted to see Varnado go up against as much of the top talent as was possible. Unfortunately, despite Varnado playing one of his best games of the year against one of the top centers in college basketball, they still lost to Kentucky. I think Varnado is being underrated. And if he were a couple of inches taller, he would probably be a lottery pick. Because unlike Whiteside, he does know what he's doing out on the floor.
Click to expand...

Great. I'm glad you give credit (i.e. weight) to Varnado's performance against Cousins. A long shot blocker. There are quite a few of those in the NBA, not in college. It's a red flag. It wasn't accomplished by denying Cousins the ball as much as making life very uncomfortable for Cousins with his length. It's not the "be all" in evaluating Cousins, but shouldn't be dismissed either.
 
apollo916 said:
Hassan : 26min , 13pts , 9rb, 5.4blks, on 52%FG and 2 TO
Cousins: 23min, 15pts, 10rb, 1.8blks 55%FG on 2 TO

#1 how is Hassan MORE turnover prone when Cousins averages more TO's than Hassan? (I JUST ROUNDED NUMBERS UP AND DOWN)

#2 Cousins is no where near Hassan's defensive presence and the offensive numbers are the same?! (dang near)

#3 Hassan is taller, and more athletic, watch this next season.

You speak of Hassan being "dumb" *COUGH* Derrick Rose
Click to expand...

To answer your first question, which should be obvious, he actually tried to pass the ball. Something Whiteside didn't do. Did you conviently forget that Whiteside had a grand total of 10 assists in the entire season. Cousins happens to be a good passer. It stands to reason that if you going to pass the ball, your going to also have some turnovers. If your a black hole when you get the ball and only look to score, then your probably going to have less turners.

If you drive your car 50,000 miles a year and the other guy only drives his 5,000 miles a year, your more than likely to have a better chance of having an accident or getting a ticket.

OK, fact number two. Until proven otherwise by the measurements at the combine, both Whiteside and Cousins are 6'11". The only difference stature wise is that Whiteside is as skinny as a rail and Cousins weighs somewhere between 270 and 280. And Cousins is not fat. Out of NBA shape perhaps, but hardly fat, if you saw him play, which I'm starting to doubt.. There is a difference between being fat and overweight and not being in top condition. So no! He doesn't weigh 300 pounds.

When you say that Cousins is no where near Whitesides defensive presence. Just exactly what presence are you talking about? Because if I have to pick one over the other in man on man defense in the NBA, I'm taking Cousins hands down. Whiteside gets pushed all over the place under the basket because of no lower body strength and lack of weight. Can you honestly see him trying to hold position against a Chris Kaman or a Bynum. How do you think he would do after Al Jefferson backed him down in the post. Do you honestly think that all there is to defense is blocking shots?

I'll concede that Whiteside is a better athlete. But thats where it pretty much ends. And to compare their stats, when one played in a small conference against lesser competition for most of the year and the other played against the big boys all year long, is ridiculous.

Why were even having this conversation if beyond me. Petrie would never draft Whiteside that high. Personally I don't think he should even go in the lottery. He's just too raw. If I had a second first round pick and I could take him around 15 or 16 then I'd certainly go for it. Don't misunderstand me. I think there's a chance that Whiteside could turn into something special. If he decides to put in the time. But the reports are that he's not that dedicated and has a poor work ethic. Without putting in the work you won't develop the skills necessary to play in the NBA.

By the way. Most of his turnovers come from putting the ball on the floor in traffic.. Here's a comparison with him and a couple of other players. One, Jordan, from his own conference and the other from a similar conference..

Whiteside: 6'11", 220 Lbs
26.1 MPG - 13.1 PPG - 52.4% - 8.9 RPG - 0.3 APG - 5.4 BPG - 1.8 TO

Parakhouski: 6'11", 265 Lbs
34.0 MPG - 21.4 PPG - 58.1% - 13.4 RPG - 1.1 APG - 2.1 BPG - 2.4 TO

Jerome Jordan: 7'0", 255 Lbs
29.8 MPG - 15.4 PPG - 54.9% - 9.1 RPG - 1.3 APG - 2.3 BPG - 2.2 TO

Being that you like shotblockers here's Jarvis Varnado's numbers from Mississippi St.

Varnado: 6'9", 225 Lbs
31.7 MPG - 13.8 PPG - 58.2% - 10.3 RPG - 0.9 APG - 4.7 BPG - 1.9 TO

Varnado by the way is the all time leading shotblocker in NCAA history.
 
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