Concern about Webber

[Gary]

Hmmm..

This is the way that I rank the leagues PF position.

1. KG
2. Dirk
3. Duncan
4. Staudemire
5. O'neal
6. Gasol
7. Randolph
8. Webber
9. Boozer
10. Brand
11. Okafor
12. Walker
13. R. Wallace
14. K. Thomas
15. Bosh
16. Gooden
17. Howard
18. Murphy
19. Joe Smith

Webber probally wont make the All-Star team this year because of the 4 or so guys in front of him.

 

[Gary]

Which brings me to another question..

Peja, Marion, AK-47?

Would you do a strait up trade Peja for either AK, or Marion?

 

[Brewer16]

Not sure how you would know, since they hardly ever play each other(injuries, Suspensions lol) But the last time they did go head to head... March 19, 2004, Webb handed it to him. C-Webb 24 pts 16 rebs 8 assists! JO 23 pts 7 rebs 2 assists. So you see Webb can be a "very talented beast of a player" at times too, that game was AFTER he came back from his injury, in case you were wondering.

Here's a link to the Box score: http://www.nba.com/games/20040319/SACIND/boxscore.html

I was at that game, and I agree, Webber definitly handed it to him, O'Neil was scoring but not really doing anything else.

(that was also the game bibby won at the last second. Seeing it in person was just...wow)

 

[VF21]

Which brings me to another question..

Peja, Marion, AK-47?

Would you do a strait up trade Peja for either AK, or Marion?

You might want to start a new thread about that because the question is really buried here in this thread...

 

[Heuge]

Hmmm..

This is the way that I rank the leagues PF position.

1. KG
2. Dirk
3. Duncan
4. Staudemire
5. O'neal
6. Gasol
7. Randolph
8. Webber
9. Boozer
10. Brand
11. Okafor
12. Walker
13. R. Wallace
14. K. Thomas
15. Bosh
16. Gooden
17. Howard
18. Murphy
19. Joe Smith

Webber probally wont make the All-Star team this year because of the 4 or so guys in front of him.

Randolph...lol. You really should watch him play before you put him above Webber.

 

[Bballkingsrock]

I would put Webbe #5 or #6 in front of Randolph and Gasol. He can become debatable at number 5 in front of Amare, but I dont think so. Actually I think he is also better than Dirk since he can only shoot. So this is my top 5 rankings:

1. KG
2. Duncan
3. O'Neal
4. Amare
5. Webber

It can be debatable that Webber at #4 but right now, i would put him at #5.

 

[Gary]

Yah I could have gone either way on Randolph/Webber.. I have NBA LP and watch him all the time.

That was my mistake.. I should have put Webber (stat wise) above Randolph. I just think Randolph is a better in close, and rebounding, where as Webber has a better jumper, and better passer. Randolph can create his own shot too.

 

[Gary]

I would put Webbe #5 or #6 in front of Randolph and Gasol. He can become debatable at number 5 in front of Amare, but I dont think so. Actually I think he is also better than Dirk since he can only shoot. So this is my top 5 rankings:

1. KG
2. Duncan
3. O'Neal
4. Amare
5. Webber

It can be debatable that Webber at #4 but right now, i would put him at #5.

Webber better than Dirk!??! ACK! it is hard to debate rebounding since they are both weak rebounders but Dirk is a better shooter, short, midrange, and long. Can create his own shot, gets to the line, better free throw shooter, more blocks, less turnovers.. Well you get the picture

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Webber better than Dirk!??! ACK! it is hard to debate rebounding since they are both weak rebounders but Dirk is a better shooter, short, midrange, and long. Can create his own shot, gets to the line, better free throw shooter, more blocks, less turnovers.. Well you get the picture

Small forward! Small forward!

 

[KP]

Webber better than Dirk!??! ACK! it is hard to debate rebounding since they are both weak rebounders but Dirk is a better shooter, short, midrange, and long. Can create his own shot, gets to the line, better free throw shooter, more blocks, less turnovers.. Well you get the picture

Yeah! Thats almost as crazy as putting Zach Randolph, and Pau Gasol in front of Webb!

Better at What? Getting arrested(Zach), or being known as the softest player in the league(Pau)? By the way Gary, actual facts don't seem to be your strong suit -Dirk is 12th out of about 400 players in Rebs per game, Webb is 16th. Thats weak rebounding?

 

[VF21]

What are you talking about?

 

[Gary]

Yeah! Thats almost as crazy as putting Zach Randolph, and Pau Gasol in front of Webb!

Better at What? Getting arrested(Zach), or being known as the softest player in the league(Pau)? By the way Gary, actual facts don't seem to be your strong suit -Dirk is 12th out of about 400 players in Rebs per game, Webb is 16th. Thats weak rebounding?

Yeh, they are both weak rebounders for their positions.. They get a lot of rebounds because the surrounding team as a whole is weak in that aspect. Kind of like Raef Lafrentz.. You would not call him a guy to pickup to clog the middle, but he gets a couple blocks a game (a couple years ago).. See what I mean?

 

[KP]

Yeh, they are both weak rebounders for their positions.. They get a lot of rebounds because the surrounding team as a whole is weak in that aspect. Kind of like Raef Lafrentz.. You would not call him a guy to pickup to clog the middle, but he gets a couple blocks a game.. See what I mean?

No. They are both good rebounders, Webb has the best hands in the NBA. Dirk is 12th in the league in reb.(did I already say that?) I guess my point is if you get more rebs than everyone in the league besides 11 other guys... You are not a "Weak" rebounder. Is that really up for debate? I'm not talking about blocking shots Im talking about rebounding.

 

[Gary]

We shall disagree than.. Webb is not a good rebounder in my eyes. There are many other players including a lot of bench players that if given the time on the floor they would have the same, if not more rebounds per game..

As it stands PER 48 MINUTES Webber ranks 37th for TOTAL rebounds per 48 minutes.

Dirk is also tied with Webber at 37th for Total rebounds for 48 minutes at 12.4..

 

[KP]

We shall disagree than.. Webb is not a good rebounder in my eyes. There are many other players including a lot of bench players that if given the time on the floor they would have the same, if not more rebounds per game..

As it stands PER 48 MINUTES Webber ranks 37th for TOTAL rebounds per 48 minutes.

Dirk is also tied with Webber at 37th for Total rebounds for 48 minutes at 12.4..

We are gonna have to disagree, but there is a reason why good players get more min. than bench players. Just cuz some scrub avg. 3 rebs in 12 min per game doesn't mean he could keep it up for a whole game and get 12 rebs a game. Webb and Dirk have "proven" that they can. Any other opinions you have are just that, opinions ... not fact. But that doesn't necesarily mean you're wrong either.

 

[VF21]

I'm perfectly happy with a PF who can average 12.4 boards per game, especially if he's also averaging over 20 points per game AND nearly 5 assists.

 

[KP]

I'm perfectly happy with a PF who can average 12.4 boards per game, especially if he's also averaging over 20 points per game AND nearly 5 assists.

Will you quite bringing things like "factual information" into this argument!

 

[4cwebb]

22.0 ppg
10.1 rbs
4.5 assists
1.4 stls
49% fg%

Those career stats are hardly a waste of talent. Statisticly he makes a strong case for the Hall of Fame.

Considering CWebb's relatively *limited* offensive game and his consistent laziness on defense when he was healthy, I'm in the camp of opinion that CWebb has wasted some talent if he can average those numbers with the limitations only he imposes upon himself (no real ability to drive to the left, he can't turn and shoot a jump hook over his right shoulder with his left hand, he has no real turnaround move in the post other than his jump hook over his left shoulder, etc., etc.).

 

[Heuge]

Considering CWebb's relatively *limited* offensive game and his consistent laziness on defense when he was healthy, I'm in the camp of opinion that CWebb has wasted some talent if he can average those numbers with the limitations only he imposes upon himself (no real ability to drive to the left, he can't turn and shoot a jump hook over his right shoulder with his left hand, he has no real turnaround move in the post other than his jump hook over his left shoulder, etc., etc.).

Of course he has over his career had weaknesses...Who hasn't? I am just saying that his career numbers are anything but a waste of talent.

 

[shaka zulu]

I'm perfectly happy with a PF who can average 12.4 boards per game, especially if he's also averaging over 20 points per game AND nearly 5 assists.

Webb is what his name is Webb he get thangs in his hands points ,rebounds, asssits etc.He is a stat stuffer but sometimes we need him to do the littl things when we are in close games and you can point out the 3 pointer he made to beat the bucks first or second career buzzer beater Yeah that's cool.But give me the little intangibles screens mindfullness in close games down the stretch HALF COURT EXECUTION SACRAFICER PLAYS.

 

[VF21]

Webb is what his name is Webb he get thangs in his hands points ,rebounds, asssits etc.He is a stat stuffer but sometimes we need him to do the littl things when we are in close games and you can point out the 3 pointer he made to beat the bucks first or second career buzzer beater Yeah that's cool.But give me the little intangibles screens mindfullness in close games down the stretch HALF COURT EXECUTION SACRAFICER PLAYS.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. He gets points, rebounds, assists, etc. but we need him to do the little things? Okay, how about his steals, which have been up recently? How about the number of screens he's set this year that benefit Pedja or Mike? Mindfullness in close games down the stretch? What the heck does that mean?

HALF COURT EXECUTION SACRAFICER PLAYS.

LOL! I don't think YOU know what that means.

 

[shaka zulu]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. He gets points, rebounds, assists, etc. but we need him to do the little things? Okay, how about his steals, which have been up recently? How about the number of screens he's set this year that benefit Pedja or Mike? Mindfullness in close games down the stretch? What the heck does that mean?





LOL! I don't think YOU know what that means.

minsful meaning you must know who is the best option at the right time.The greats always know what player needs the ball,/////they make all the right decisions at the right time.Watch some of magic johnson's Games.You will see how this is done.About the steals webber will do this he will steal the ball from anyone his hands are like webbs literaly.But being mindfull is knowing what to do at the right time every time.Sacrafice is a mentality you have on the floor as a player that you sacrafice any personal agendas to WIN the game.STATS are misleading you can't judge a player's game by STATS alone.

 

[shaka zulu]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. He gets points, rebounds, assists, etc. but we need him to do the little things? Okay, how about his steals, which have been up recently? How about the number of screens he's set this year that benefit Pedja or Mike? Mindfullness in close games down the stretch? What the heck does that mean?





LOL! I don't think YOU know what that means.

see you are a technical individual who judges the game by STATS and words spelled correctly.But get out on the court be under pressure you personally and by you feeling that pressure you overstand how you may loose your ability to concentrate and be mindful out there really playing not just sitting in front of the Television playing arm chair BASKETBALL.i DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHAT BEING MINDFULL IS BY NEVER PLAYING THE GAME REALISTICALLY.

 

[nAj jAn™]

As what the other guy post before, I will trade 2 Webber for JO...enough said....

Webber may be in the top 5 PF! But still KG, Duncan, Dirk, Amare, and JO are the best PF today! No question about that....

As for Gasol, I'm still high on him. Brand also. But for sure, it's agree to disagree, so I'm not commenting anymore....

 

[Big Cuz 15]

8 other guys in the histor of the NBA have averaged 20-10-5 every season of their carrer, but in Webb's case it probably will not get him in the Hall of fame with out a ring.

Just off the top of my head I'd rank the top 10 PF's based on this seaons play only as follows.The names would pretty much stay the same but the olrder would change if we are talking some kind of over all ranking based on past 5 years, and would change again based on entire careeers.

1. Dirk (the dude is killing em)
2. TD
3. Garnet
4. Webber
5. Jermaine Oniel
6. Amare Staudemire
7. Rashard Lewis
8. Elton Brand
9. Drew Gooden
10. Lamar Odom

rashard lewis isn't a PF
and how can you rank amare lower than webber?

 

[Bballkingsrock]

8 other guys in the histor of the NBA have averaged 20-10-5 every season of their carrer, but in Webb's case it probably will not get him in the Hall of fame with out a ring.

Just off the top of my head I'd rank the top 10 PF's based on this seaons play only as follows.The names would pretty much stay the same but the olrder would change if we are talking some kind of over all ranking based on past 5 years, and would change again based on entire careeers.

1. Dirk (the dude is killing em)
2. TD
3. Garnet
4. Webber
5. Jermaine Oniel
6. Amare Staudemire
7. Rashard Lewis
8. Elton Brand
9. Drew Gooden
10. Lamar Odom

First how can you rank Webber more than Jermaine O'Neal? He scored 55 pts a week ago! Also Dirk #1? He can only shoot. Garnet and Duncan are shooters, good passers out of the double team, blockers, and really good at rebounding. Chris is a great shooter, great passer, not a good blocker, and is solid at rebounding.

I would put Chris, as I have said before either #5 or #6. Also Rashard is a SF. You forgot about Pau Gasol who is better than Drew and Lamar. Lamar is better than Drew because Lamar is with a ballhog. He isnt getting as much chances as he did with the Heat.

 

[piksi]

8 other guys in the histor of the NBA have averaged 20-10-5 every season of their carrer, but in Webb's case it probably will not get him in the Hall of fame with out a ring.

Just off the top of my head I'd rank the top 10 PF's based on this seaons play only as follows.The names would pretty much stay the same but the olrder would change if we are talking some kind of over all ranking based on past 5 years, and would change again based on entire careeers.

1. Dirk (the dude is killing em)
2. TD
3. Garnet
4. Webber
5. Jermaine Oniel
6. Amare Staudemire
7. Rashard Lewis
8. Elton Brand
9. Drew Gooden
10. Lamar Odom

JON and Amare are clearly better players. Lewis is not a PF. Couple others missing.

 

[6th]

see you are a technical individual who judges the game by STATS and words spelled correctly.But get out on the court be under pressure you personally and by you feeling that pressure you overstand how you may loose your ability to concentrate and be mindful out there really playing not just sitting in front of the Television playing arm chair BASKETBALL.i DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHAT BEING MINDFULL IS BY NEVER PLAYING THE GAME REALISTICALLY.

shaka, I, for one, am getting tired of your insulting remarks. How in the hell could you possibly know how many of us have ever played in a basketball game? Calling us all arm chair players and accusing us of knowing nothing because of your assumption that we have never played is disdainful and disgusting. I am asking you to stop. I have seen a moderator ask you to stop. Keep it up, and I imagine you will no longer be asked, but told by a moderator to stop or risk banishment.

 

[HndsmCelt]

JO and Amare are NOT clearly beter than Webb. I know in the eyes of those who only look at points scored, and high light reals they are the shiznit, but watch them paly see what they do for their team and look at the full stat line. Webber brings in nearly 10 rebounds a game, but more importatly he gets the tem involved. His 5 assists are just a stat and hardly reflect what he does for his team. While On'Niel was out (his fault for bing a knuckel head) the team missed his scoring and rebounding but really the did not miss him as leader of the team. In actuality for better or worse Artest has a larger impact on the teams play than O' Neal.

Amare, is much like JO but more crucial for his team, look at his assists and tell me that Nash needs him as much as he needs Nash?

But like I said I pulled 10 names off of the top of my head of forwards who are having great seasons and could be considered the top 10 in the game this year, no disrespect to any on the list I think they are all great palyers. You of course are free to dissagree and post your own list.

 

[VF21]

minsful meaning you must know who is the best option at the right time.The greats always know what player needs the ball,/////they make all the right decisions at the right time.Watch some of magic johnson's Games.You will see how this is done.About the steals webber will do this he will steal the ball from anyone his hands are like webbs literaly.But being mindfull is knowing what to do at the right time every time.Sacrafice is a mentality you have on the floor as a player that you sacrafice any personal agendas to WIN the game.STATS are misleading you can't judge a player's game by STATS alone.

Oh, geez. You are so full of yourself.

Webber has a personal agenda. I will agree with that. Do you have a clue about what it is? I'm guessing no.

I do know. Webber's personal agenda is to WIN the NBA championship. He is putting everything he can into trying to accomplish that agenda.

The drama you keep trying to allude to isn't real. The players don't have anywhere near all the concerns that people like you try to put on them. They want to WIN. They want to play with other players who want to WIN.

To insinuate that Webber is sabotaging Pedja for some reason is just silly.