Comments on IT trade by PDA
- Thread starter sdballer
- Start date
- Status
Swaze
Bench
How are you not lumping them together? You talk about 10 years and expect it to be fixed in one?
Made me think back to a couple of game threads where we actually discussed the apparent clash between IT and various other players. While I'm sure most of it was heat-of-the-moment stuff, it makes me wonder if the situation got to the point where it was just obvious there would be bigger problems going forward.
All pure speculation, of course.
I guess I was raised differently. I know another of my august peers refers to PDA as "gerbil" but I personally think it's silly to use demeaning nicknames.
I never expected it to get fixed in one. Neither do many of the people unhappy with the direction we are taking. I hoped they would make moves that attempted to build a winning team with some semblance of vision. In my opinion, I don't think we are taking the best path there. I don't hate all of the moves. I hate the fact there doesn't feel like a plan.
This is very true. People forget that we usually lack leverage, especially so when we're the ones trying to move a player. Unless the other team is looking for a midseason pick up to put them over the hump, there's really not much we could have gotten back, and fans would be complaining about losing IT for a 2nd round pick. Maybe if we'd tried to move Ben together too we'd stand a better chance. But otherwise teams would just wait for free agency. 9 times out of 10 that you're the one wanting to move a player you won't get equal value in return. The best you can do is take a flyer on some risky contract and hope it turns out, like in the Gay trade.
RussoTuristo
G-League
We can assume that PDA and other FO people are pretty much clueless, we can assume that they do not know when to sell and what to do with our assets and even we, fans, could have gotten something serious for IT, especially at the deadline. We can assume many things. We, fans, have little to no information, we can only see the tip of the iceberg. We also can assume that FO actually tried to trade IT earlier and no team gave us anything serious, so they tried to get some return in July because sometimes it is better to let some players go in July with a chance to get something other than "trash" than to get "trash" back at the deadline. This free agency showed that IT was not a super hot commodity, nobody offered him what he actually wanted - a starter job and big $. Even though he still got a solid contract from PHO. It is great to have a player that everybody wants and you can get something great in return at any time. We can value IT as high as we want but it does not matter because we do not actually buy the product, other NBA teams do and there is a good chance that they either chose not to or gave us what we did not want. Again, we can assume whatever we want. We are fans. That's what we do.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
JT in a long interview had a complaint that the ball was not shared and stopped short of naming names. Can I guess that IT was part of the problem in JT's eyes? Of course it was a problem. There are enough "pure speculations" to add up to "a distinct possibility." I have been upset with IT's limited willingness to share the ball dating back before last year.
If you are team B, would you be willing to give up a young player or 1st round draft for a player you can sign outright as a free agent?
jcwkings
All-Star
Everytime I hear PDA talk I have less and less faith in him. He says he wants to play faster yet your cornerstone is Demarcus Cousins? All I hear from him is speed, athleticism, how about basketball IQ? I see no vision of where this is going and apparently neither does anyone in the league. We havent made the playoffs in a decade, and I see no way of us getting back there anytime soon. We have no assets outside of Demarcus Cousins, we arent bad enough to get # 1 picks and we arent nearly good enough to make the playoffs, we look like an eternal 30-35 win team. Its just lookimg really bad for this franchise, barring something crazy we will win 30 games and Gay will leave on the first bus out of town. Hopefully im wrong but I cant see how anybody operating with a rational mind can be optimistic about this franchise.
Teams do it all the time, including the kings. It's easier to resign a guy that builds some roots then to get them as FA.
Look I'm not claiming I'm sure we could have had a great deal but plenty of teams have made similar moves and few are willing to let guys walk that have value when they know they aren't going to pursue them. Especially when they lack assets.
That line bothered me too. He keeps trying to build us in the model of gs/Denver but our cornerstone couldn't be farther from the right fit for those systems.
Is IT that type of player though? I mean we spent this entire year trying to denigrate IT and portray him as a selfish, undersized chucker who freezes out star players for his own gain. Did we forget that suddenly? You think GM's are jumping over themselves to give away assets for players like that?
People get traded all over the place. Andrea Bargani got moved this year for 3 draft picks. John salmons got traded twice in a few months. Doesn't mean it's easy but every time someone makes a poor decision with an asset doesn't mean no one was willing to trade for them.
Salmons provides cap relief as his contract isn't guaranteed. That's why they were able to get a decent player back in Lou Williams.
Since we wanted to trade IT at the deadline, teams just aren't going to give up as much for a player of IT's caliber for 3 months with a possibility of resigning him.
2nd round picks are exactly that. Most of them don't make it into the league. The first rounder from the Bargani trade is likely to be low as Denver has the right to swap.
Since we wanted to trade IT at the deadline, teams just aren't going to give up as much for a player of IT's caliber for 3 months with a possibility of resigning him.
2nd round picks are exactly that. Most of them don't make it into the league. The first rounder from the Bargani trade is likely to be low as Denver has the right to swap.
kennadog
Dog On It!
All right, rumor heard at summer league today. IT dumped Cousins on twitter as soon as his trade went through.
No, I don't have a source.
Chemistry may have definitely been an issue. Who are you going to keep between Cousins and IT? (That's a rhetorical question. )
It was clear Rudy had a problem with IT not passing, too.
No, I don't have a source.
Chemistry may have definitely been an issue. Who are you going to keep between Cousins and IT? (That's a rhetorical question. )
It was clear Rudy had a problem with IT not passing, too.
Last edited:
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Found this comment to be very interesting
(he is an ex Sports 1140 employee)
@JDJohnDickinson
Isaiah Thomas was a poser in Sacramento. Played up to community/fans in an attempt to get paid & start. Kings brass saw through act quickly
3:58 PM - 11 Jul 2014
(he is an ex Sports 1140 employee)
@JDJohnDickinson
Isaiah Thomas was a poser in Sacramento. Played up to community/fans in an attempt to get paid & start. Kings brass saw through act quickly
3:58 PM - 11 Jul 2014
How do you know what teams were offering IT? You don't' ! Many sources in the league have said he received offers from various sub .500 teams. If you follow IT you would know he made it clear he was not looking to move East. I'm tired of every one putting they words about what offers he got because they don't have a clue. Bottom line is he was our best shooter and we got nothing in return. Just go on a Phoenix forums.. They are laughing at us, and every article about the trade points to the tradition of bad management from the Kings. If we suck this year and Phoenix is winning..it will be clear that IT was not the problem. Hopefully this is not the cAse.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Obviously there is more to it than is let out to general public. There have been instances in this past season where there were obvious problems between IT and the rest of the team. I think Cousins lashed out at him a number of times. JT and Gay also had words with him at times. The issue is not that we let IT go, its that we held on to the asset for too long when it was obvious for a while now that we had no real interest in giving him a good contract.
Albatros
Starter
Cousins and Isaiah have unfollowed each other. Unless they never followed each other. Make of that what you will.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
While that is a bit of kicking a guy on the way out, I have intimated in the past that I saw IT as a political animal, worming his way in and ingratiating himself with Keith Smart and the media. Its a weak weak organization that allows that to happen. My dissatisfaction with the entire IT experience runs at least as much to poor coaches, fawning media, and fans losing perspective as it does to IT himself. Its to gerbil's credit if he saw through that. But of course that still doesn't answer how he could then allow IT to put up big numbers, price himself out of the market, and play it all the way down to the point where we got nothing back for him. You don't believe in him, dump him for something you do believe in.
Here's the irony, make me god emperor of the Kings beginning 3 years ago, and I, noted non-IT fawner/lover, would have saved IT as a King and currently still have IT on my roster as a 6th man. I would have accomplished that by being smarter, by having a distinct plan, by not being a sycophant. IT would have been playing for me, in a role I knew he was suited for. Not me, the franchise, or the fans playing for him. And the first time I caught Grant or Jerry going through the laundry bin looking for one of his jocks to sniff, I would have canned their ass. Instead we got "love me some pizza guy" "ooh IT! IT!", do whatever the hell you want little guy, here's the ball, have fun! And we lost him because of it, probably lost Reke because of it as well, and managed to do all this with no tangible results in the win column. You wonder why I sound arrogant and drip with disdain when talking about the Kings decisionmakers over the years? Insects.
Now what is done is done. I have half an inkling we could get a little better here if Stauskas pans out as a fill in the blanks starter ala a Chandler Parson type guy. Collison, who BTW has far too much IT in him for my own preferences, may still as a lower usage guy allow a guy like Nik to breath in a way IT never would. Doesn't mean the new regime's mishandling of IT/Reke has been anything other than ridiculous.
Last edited:
J
jdbraver
Guest
This gerbil thing really needs to stop.
I looked through Collison's splits and here's a couple of notes:
1. IT was praised for finishing well at the rim and deservedly so - he had .68 at the rim percentage, but the last couple of years Collison is no slouch either at .64, plus for him at the rim finishes are around 30% of his FGs, while for IT it's about 20%.
2. As a starter last year IT had .570TS%, as a reserve - .592, for Collison it's the opposite - .602 and .542 (previous years results were not this obvious).
3. As a starter last two years Collison shot .417 from 3. IT - .362.
4. Last two years per 100 possessions: Collison - 16 shots, 5.6 FTs and 8assists (19.8 usage%), IT - 21 shots, 7.5 FTs and 8 assists (24.5 usage%).
My main point is his first two years Collison indeed look like a worse version of IT, but then, playing year after year for teams with established stars and good coaches, who build team game around those stars, he might've started to settle down in a background role, that Kings need from their PG right now.
TaxMan
Starter
Completely agree. I think they got so blinded by the thought they needed a "veteran" presence (because of what was a disastrous locker room when they took over), and Malone had a great experience with Landry in GS, that they completely ignored the obvious great fit that Lopez would been. So, this summer we seem rumors they are searching for a shot blocking big to play next to cousins, you don't think they realize the extent of their error on the Lopez/Landry decision? I'm guessing you corner PDA on that decision and he would regret it. I can get on board with everything else they have done (not saying all those moves have worked out, but they are defendable).
Kingster
Hall of Famer
At the very least, you get a pick or two for him. It's beyond pathetic that they let him go for TP(e).
sidney
Starter
we'll never know if that was possible but it is telling that not one team in the league wanted to sign IT as their starting PG when he was there for the taking. The interest was only as a backup which generally caps out around the MLE. Suns offer a tad more and there he goes. Not many teams will offer a 1st round pick for a backup PG.
That said, i do think we could have done something better than we did (IT + bad contract for expiring). That would have been better than a TPE I think.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
It is an interesting possibility. He may have looked at a guy like Vivek Ranadive and thought that he could win him over with the off the court stuff. However, Vivek is a very successful businessman who has dealt with all types of people for most of his life. You're not going to pull the wool over his eyes with any kind of act
- Status
Similar threads
- Cleveland Cavaliers On SI
- Personnel moves
- ClutchPoints | Sacramento Kings News
- Personnel moves
- ClutchPoints | San Antonio Spurs News
- Kings News Links
- Yahoo! Sports - NBA - Sacramento Kings News
- Kings News Links
