Cleveland/ Kings

[Kingster]

you must be drinking the same kool aid grant's been serving on his radio show

Multiple courses are being served today on Grant's show. Irving and a #1 sounds very delectable. Whether you could get him for Cousins is another matter. But there are several on this board that sound like they'd give up Irving and a #1 in a heartbeat for Cousins. All that needs to happen is for the Cav's GM to have the same DNA.

 

[funkykingston]

Multiple courses are being served today on Grant's show. Irving and a #1 sounds very delectable. Whether you could get him for Cousins is another matter. But there are several on this board that sound like they'd give up Irving and a #1 in a heartbeat for Cousins. All that needs to happen is for the Cav's GM to have the same DNA.

The Cavs aren't trading Irving. At least not unless it's for Kevin Durant or the like. Their feeling is that he's the franchise player you build around. Their interest in Cousins should logically stem from the notion of pairing him with Irving. My guess is the actual offer would be something like Tristan Thompson and #1 for Cousins and #7.

 

[Gary]

Would be insane to deal Cousins with a new, fresh regime coming in. If he's a total disaster (meaning headcase, not skills) this season, then yeah, you still can look for a trade next year and get about the same back as now.

The GM that the Kings were looking at from GS has all these weird personality tests supposedly. He grades players on other stuff as well, but that really made me think about the Bee article about the guy after reading this thread. So perhaps he just doesn't think Cousins will be a good fit and he might try to move him based off of his attitude.

I don't want to trade Cousins though. He's my fav King right now.

EDIT: Corrected my terrible punctuation and grammar. It's still bad but at least it's legible.

 

[Glenn]

Really? When did his teammates say this? Show quotes not rumors spouted by a jackass like napear. This team is bad but it has one potential star that admittedly has maturity issues and isn't a great defender. It's basketball team building 101 that you don't trade a potential star (especially in a small market) for role players. You surround them with role players to provide a more stable, effective team.

Honestly, I'm already missing discussing the Seattle situation with some of the nonsense starting up again.

I would like to see a link that supports this also. I can imagine his team mates being tired of his behavior but at the same time, I can also imagine his team mates rooting for him to either get his act together or get a coach he respects. His team mates know they aren't going anywhere without Cuz.

This is one of those threads that will go nowhere because they depend so much on what happens in the future. That depends a lot on the new coach and whether this team begins to win. It depends on whether a 22 year old calms down as he gets older but mainly it depends on whether he thinks he is on a team that is going anywhere. Winning cures a lot of ills. None of us knows the future but I presume this thread will go on endlessly because people think they know the future.

As to whether or not he has improved, of course he has improved. His fouling has gone down and that used to be the limiting factor as to how many minutes he plays. It's a start.

I would like to find the comment from Vivek that says he doesn't want guys like Cuz. That has been implied in this thread. At least let us discuss the knowable and quit making up what we pass on as facts.

 

[Mike]

I can't see what the Mavs have to offer us. They have no real pieces we want, and their pick is lower than ours. So unless they gave up their first round picks this year and next, then I can't see them being a viable option.

The Bobcats have the #4 pick and a few first*rounders next year. So a pair could work, but equally a deal with their first and Kemba Walker for DMC and maybe a pick could be appealing.

Most likely would be the Cavs. They could offer their two firsts this year for him, or give us their #1 this year and their first next year, or their #1 and a player. That could work, but I'm not sure the Cavs offer the right environment for him.

Personally I'd rather we keep and build around him. We shouldn't want to give up our best talent when they have all star potential. *

The Cavs aren't trading Irving. At least not unless it's for Kevin Durant or the like. Their feeling is that he's the franchise player you build around. Their interest in Cousins should logically stem from the notion of pairing him with Irving. My guess is the actual offer would be something like Tristan Thompson and #1 for Cousins and #7.

Not sure I'd give up our #7 pick as well in that deal. Thompson has potential but for DMC I'd want him plus their #1. No way I'd give up our pick as well.

 

[Glenn]

That GM they were looking at bringing grades players based off of (partly) a personality test. So perhaps he just doesn't think Cousins will be a good fit and he might try to move him based off of his attitude. That article in this mornings bee was interesting, and then this comes up it might actually be more than a rumor. Who knows....

I don't want to trade Cousins though. He's my fav King right now.

I'd love to know what the personality test is. Then I hope I get to comment on it.

As to the last sentence, Cuz is the only guy that has made this team tolerable in the last few years. I don't know what I would do if he as traded.

 

[AaronPDX]

Why would a new owner come in and trade Cousins away immediately without giving him a chance to flourish in a "world class organization" he plans to build versus the basement dweller coke-head run organization the Kings have been for the past 7 seasons? Seems absolutely ridiculous to me and clearly an attempt to stir up something out of nothing to get people to respond to them on Twitter, fan boards, etc. Hardly worth the time to mention.

 

[Fear the Putin]

LORD HAVE MERCY!!!???

YOU DO NOT TRADE COUSINS...PERIOD.

I can't believe you guys are contemplating trading our most valuable asset for a #1 in a weak draft and effin Tristan Thompson. For christs sake...

 

[CaminoChaos]

LORD HAVE MERCY!!!???

YOU DO NOT TRADE COUSINS...PERIOD.

I can't believe you guys are contemplating trading our most valuable asset for a #1 in a weak draft and effin Tristan Thompson. For christs sake...

That wasn't the trade this thread was about.

 

[Spike]

Sigh.
My response wasn't that I wanted to trade DMC -far from it. My point was that someone like Thompson +#1 would likely be the offer.

 

[AaronPDX]

I would NEVER trade Cousins at this point. That being said, how could he even possibly have better or even equal value now than he would have at the trade deadline? By trading him now, there's no way to get anywhere near of value, period......and THAT being said? I'd NEVER trade Cousins at this point. Foolish.

 

[VF21]

But that's the point. There won't be a good deal on the table.

I'm a big believer in Cousin's abilities and potential and thus have no interest in trading him.

But for those of you that want to see him dealt, understand that for the teams interested in him it is largely because they think they can get him at a bargain and that he's a low risk cap gamble given that he's on the last year of his rookie deal. The Kings will NOT get anything resembling equal talent if they decide to trade DMC. I'm sure some detractors think dealing him would be addition by subtraction. But in terms of talent the Kings will end up on the wrong side if the ledger in a trade.

I think it would be eye opening to hear the "flexible pieces" that other teams are dangling or considering dangling for Cousins and I doubt even the biggest proponents of dealing DeMarcus would pull the trigger on anything being offered.

Totally agree.

 

[Fear the Putin]

That wasn't the trade this thread was about.

that's what happens when you jump from one thread to another and they're still talking about a Cousins trade

 

[VF21]

Why would a new owner come in and trade Cousins away immediately without giving him a chance to flourish in a "world class organization" he plans to build versus the basement dweller coke-head run organization the Kings have been for the past 7 seasons? Seems absolutely ridiculous to me and clearly an attempt to stir up something out of nothing to get people to respond to them on Twitter, fan boards, etc. Hardly worth the time to mention.

Welcome to Kingsfans.com! Nice to see another Kings fan from Portland enter the fold.

As far as your comment goes, I totally and completely agree. It's my belief that DFC (Demarcus Freaking Cousins) will finally get the leadership and role definition that he needs to truly become all he is capable of being. I see Vivek and Co. doing all they can to build a successful cohesive TEAM around Cousins and Evans.
'

 

[AaronPDX]

VF21 - are you stuck up here, too, suffering what appears to be early Junuary ?? Tough to be a Kings fan in a Blazer town !

 

[VF21]

VF21 - are you stuck up here, too, suffering what appears to be early Junuary ?? Tough to be a Kings fan in a Blazer town !

No, I'm in California. We have a long-time member named pdxKingsfan, though, so you're not alone.

 

[Heuge]

No, I'm in California. We have a long-time member named pdxKingsfan, though, so you're not alone.

And me...

 

[swisshh]

There are two people who bring up trading Demarcus Cousins.

1. Fans who secretly want Cousins on another team or their own team and think that Boogie's poor image can make him had for cheap. This then creates the Cousins revival narrative where he blows up on their preferred team and they ride it to the playoffs.
2. Idiots.

 

[bajaden]

Not saying I agree with the deal, but the #1 pick could look mighty shiny for a new FO and management group, especially for a player like Cuz who's caused problems since he entered the league. #1, #7 and Reke could be an attractive starting point for the rebuild.

Again, not saying I agree with it, but I think it's for sure something that could be in play

A number 1 and 7 in next years draft would be inticing, but not in this years draft. There's not one player in the first round with Cousins talent, and its not even close.. Tristan Thompson couldn't tie Cousins shoes, so I have no use for him. Dallas has non one, and that includes Dirk, that I would trade for Cousins. Not unless Dirk finds a way to shed 10 years of age. Personally, I have to see what Cuz looks like at the end of next year with a new coach. If its more of the same, then I'd consider trading him. Somehow I just don't think that will be the case.

Many people don't remember that Wilt Chamberlain originally played for the Warriors. They also don't remember that he was hard to get along with, and if he didn't like a coach, he just wouldn't talk to him or listen to him. Of course Wilt was young at the time, and he was a target of fans, and of other teams who tried to provoke him on the floor as a means to distract him or get him to lose his temper. Eventually the Warriors traded Wilt to Philly for three players that no one would even remember if I listed their names. Here's a quote following that trade.

When Chamberlain left the Warriors, owner Franklin Mieuli said: "Chamberlain is not an easy man to love [and] the fans in San Francisco never learned to love him. Wilt is easy to hate [...] people came to see him lose."[33]

Of courst Wilt went on to win two championships and put up stats that still stand to this day. I'm not saying that Cousins is the next Wilt Chamberlain, but I'am saying that you don't let emotion make your decisions. I'm sure that if Franklin Mieuli knew what Wilt would accomplish in the future, he never would have traded him.

 

[Kingster]

I would like to see a link that supports this also. I can imagine his team mates being tired of his behavior but at the same time, I can also imagine his team mates rooting for him to either get his act together or get a coach he respects. His team mates know they aren't going anywhere without Cuz.

This is one of those threads that will go nowhere because they depend so much on what happens in the future. That depends a lot on the new coach and whether this team begins to win. It depends on whether a 22 year old calms down as he gets older but mainly it depends on whether he thinks he is on a team that is going anywhere. Winning cures a lot of ills. None of us knows the future but I presume this thread will go on endlessly because people think they know the future.

As to whether or not he has improved, of course he has improved. His fouling has gone down and that used to be the limiting factor as to how many minutes he plays. It's a start.

I would like to find the comment from Vivek that says he doesn't want guys like Cuz. That has been implied in this thread. At least let us discuss the knowable and quit making up what we pass on as facts.

Yes, it is implied, and yes, I haven't read the quote from Vivek: "I don't like Cousins." There's no doubt though that he's having conversations with potential GMs on Cousins. Yes, there is a question mark about Cousins. The way I look at it: either Cousins is gone over the summer, or Cousins gets a very short leash for the beginning of next year. There isn't going to be a 3-year wait and see period. Black and white; yes or no; he's either gone or he's playing as an adult in a Kings uni next year. I'm good with either one of those scenarios. It's the open-ended wait and see for the next few years approach that is ridiculous.

 

[Section 101]

Yes, it is implied, and yes, I haven't read the quote from Vivek: "I don't like Cousins." There's no doubt though that he's having conversations with potential GMs on Cousins. Yes, there is a question mark about Cousins. The way I look at it: either Cousins is gone over the summer, or Cousins gets a very short leash for the beginning of next year. There isn't going to be a 3-year wait and see period. Black and white; yes or no; he's either gone or he's playing as an adult in a Kings uni next year. I'm good with either one of those scenarios. It's the open-ended wait and see for the next few years approach that is ridiculous.

Actually, I've heard the opposite. Vek is a risk taker.

 

[Gilles]

Vivek said he doesn't like micromanagement. He hires people with knowledge and experience, and let them make decisions in the field they know. So I expect Ranadive's personal ideas, if he even has them, to take a back seat to new GMs opinion - don't think he's conducting any inquiries or getting on the phone with other GMs.

 

[Spike]

It's the open-ended wait and see for the next few years approach that is ridiculous.

Would you prefer two years of painful growth followed by a decade of dominance, or 12 years of decent with the occasional good? That's essentially what the decision to move Cousins boils down to. Telling a kid he has to "grow up now" is less productive than having the patience to actually let him grow up.
For the record, I think he will be a different person next year. There's an attempt to put a winning culture in place, and I believe Cousins wants to be to Sacramento what Duncan is to San Antonio - what a gift that would be. He hasn't had the benefit of a winning environment or players on the same page - he should get that now. I think this year will indeed tell us a lot, and I'm betting on the positive side of things.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Again I am just saddened by the over blown "concerns" about Cousins behavior. If anyone seriously thinks Cousins is a: Bad boy, thug, head case or problem child you need to do some home work before I can take you seriously. Make a list of all of Cousins "out bursts" or dramas. Next to it write down the number of games missed or punishment handed down. Now make a similar list for the 5 guys YOU think are model NBA players, then the 5 WORST problem children in the league today, because lets face it Cousins is not even a foot note in list of all time NBA problem players. Then compare your lists and get back to me. Until then I will contend that DMC is more victim of bad press than than bad behavior. His so called antics are petty-anti kids stuff that happens all the time to young knuckle heads. But because the media has labeled DMC a problem, when he does it the media reports it and local guys like Grant are the worst about it.

If you want to play the old saw that DMC is some kind of "cancer" to the team how does he stack up against the this list?
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/nba/cancers.html
Please noet Jason Williams is listed at number 7, so if you were cool with JW (who had a fraction of DMC's potential) then you really ought to recheck you use of the term "Cancer" In my book Demarcus is more a Canker Sore than Cancer.

So breath deep, let go and face the reality that the only discussions the new owners and the new GM SHOULD have about Demarcus is how much to offer in an extension and what guys they need around him to make the BEST use of his skills.

 

[Darth Divac]

I'm personally in favor of blowing it all up, bu that's just my opinion.

 

[funkykingston]

I'm personally in favor of blowing it all up, bu that's just my opinion.

You've said this now three or four times with no explanation as to why that's the best course of action in your opinion.

There is also the question of what "blowing it all up" entails. Letting Tyreke walk is pretty straightforward, but Cousins, Thornton and Thompson would need to be traded. To whom and for what?

Personally I think the "trade everybody for ending contracts and draft picks" strategy is loser mentality and I have yet to see an instance of it working in the NBA.

 

[Glenn]

Yes, it is implied, and yes, I haven't read the quote from Vivek: "I don't like Cousins." There's no doubt though that he's having conversations with potential GMs on Cousins. Yes, there is a question mark about Cousins. The way I look at it: either Cousins is gone over the summer, or Cousins gets a very short leash for the beginning of next year. There isn't going to be a 3-year wait and see period. Black and white; yes or no; he's either gone or he's playing as an adult in a Kings uni next year. I'm good with either one of those scenarios. It's the open-ended wait and see for the next few years approach that is ridiculous.

If I were Vivek, I would sit down with him and the new GM and see what comes of it. I would not take the word of any third party as Cuz is do polarizing. I don't know if this is Vivek's style but in this specific case, considering what is at stake (possibly the franchise), I'd talk to him myself.

I think it is assumed that Vivek is a sweetheart of a man and so it seems. Sweethearts can have another side that is cold blooded and I don't think you come to this country with $50 and become a billionaire without having a killer instinct. I see a soft spoken guy who is very reserved and calculating. To me he is a mystery although a pleasant mystery. We'll see what happens as time goes on. Whoever he hires probably will reflect his personality and we don't really know what that is. I sure don't.

I don't want him to be impulsive and from what I understand, he is not impulsive. In this case I want him to know as much about Cuz as he can know and make a decision from that. Certainly he doesn't have to make a decision by the end of the summer. I also hope he understands that other teams think they can come to the Kings and go bargain shopping and get a good deal on Cuz.

The difference between you and I is that I would give Cuz a long leash. If you are going to give him a short leash, why not dump him now? Everybody on this forum knows what will happen next year. He'll improve a little and still be our biggest talent and also our biggest head ache. I want to see the evolution of the talent and you want no more headaches and don't care if you may lose the best center in the NBA. I honestly don't know why you would want him gone by the end of this summer or early next year without seeing how he responds to a competent coach. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Jose]

Here's what I don't understand. This is what everybody in the universe knows the Kings needed:

1. Dump the Clowns and get a REAL ownership group
2. Dump Smart and get a competent coach
3. Dump Petrie and get a GM that has a pulse
4. Get moving with the new Arena
5. Build around Cousins and Reke

1-4 are a done deal. Why are some people so eager to abandon #5? You absolutely HAVE to give that a try. It is the only good/salvageable thing left behind by the Clowns and your ONLY shot at being remotely decent for the next few years while the logjams and needs/gaps are addressed and the cap situation is managed properly. And on top of that, if you do address the logjams and needs/gaps properly, those two are two TREMENDOUS building blocks. Why would you dismiss them without giving them a REAL chance? The last five years don't count. You have to give this a real try. As long as they are not demanding a trade, you just simply do not give away players like that.

There's a reason why so many teams are interested in these two. You rarely ever get talent like that (via FA, trade or draft) - you usually get talent like that when you screw the other team in a trade. Let's stop being the ones getting screwed, please!!!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Here's what I don't understand. This is what everybody in the universe knows the Kings needed:

1. Dump the Clowns and get a REAL ownership group
2. Dump Smart and get a competent coach
3. Dump Petrie and get a GM that has a pulse
4. Get moving with the new Arena
5. Build around Cousins and Reke

1-4 are a done deal. Why are some people so eager to abandon #5? You absolutely HAVE to give that a try. It is the only good/salvageable thing left behind by the Clowns and your ONLY shot at being remotely decent for the next few years while the logjams and needs/gaps are addressed and the cap situation is managed properly. And on top of that, if you do address the logjams and needs/gaps properly, those two are two TREMENDOUS building blocks. Why would you dismiss them without giving them a REAL chance? The last five years don't count. You have to give this a real try. As long as they are not demanding a trade, you just simply do not give away players like that.

There's a reason why so many teams are interested in these two. You rarely ever get talent like that (via FA, trade or draft) - you usually get talent like that when you screw the other team in a trade. Let's stop being the ones getting screwed, please!!!

if they want to bend over w/o lube so be it.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I'm personally in favor of blowing it all up, bu that's just my opinion.

good. they got nba 2k13 for that