Charges taken, is it a stat?

[rhythmless]

"There's a reason why they're the No. 1 defense in the league," Battier said. "Not to get all sabermetric on you, but there's a correlation between contested shots and winning percentages."

"I don't block a lot of shots all the time, but I try to alter it as much as possible and not give up any easy plays ... I wanted to be there for him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...601/roy-hibbert-making-heat-change-their-ways

I'm not sure where we can get the stats, but I would really like to see our opp inside fg% with DMC in and DMC out. I would also like to see % of shot attempt inside vs outside when DMC is on and off the court. It's been well established that shot blockers alterers discourage interior attempts. Does charge taking also discourage that? Because if it does, then you are turning some attempted layups into attempted jump shots and that has value.

Oh, and Telemachus, if you play basketball, try to take a few charges with your arms straight up. They'll come down on their own after you get kneed in the testicular region or you get the wind knocked out of you.

 

[Telemachus]

"There's a reason why they're the No. 1 defense in the league," Battier said. "Not to get all sabermetric on you, but there's a correlation between contested shots and winning percentages."

"I don't block a lot of shots all the time, but I try to alter it as much as possible and not give up any easy plays ... I wanted to be there for him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...601/roy-hibbert-making-heat-change-their-ways

I'm not sure where we can get the stats, but I would really like to see our opp inside fg% with DMC in and DMC out. I would also like to see % of shot attempt inside vs outside when DMC is on and off the court. It's been well established that shot blockers alterers discourage interior attempts. Does charge taking also discourage that? Because if it does, then you are turning some attempted layups into attempted jump shots and that has value.

Oh, and Telemachus, if you play basketball, try to take a few charges with your arms straight up. They'll come down on their own after you get kneed in the testicular region or you get the wind knocked out of you.

When I played a lot of basketball, I was very good at taking charges and blocking shots. And the truth is that a knee to the groin is just as likely to happen going after an rebound as when taking a charge (I think I got kneed to the groin once while taking a charge). I always found that the player taking a charge ended up landing on his butt while the other guy ended up landing on his knees. BTW, did you notice when Hibbert took a charge against LaBron tonight that his hands were up?

 

[King Baller]

I love the Battier video, thanks for posting it Gilles.

The Irony is that the Kings two best players are like different sides of the charge taken coin. DMC is great at taking charges and Tyreke's drives to the basket can be nullified by the exact skill demonstrated by Battier.

I do think Cousins can be a better defensive player. I would like him to model his defensive game after the older versions of Bogut and Duncan we have seen in this years Playoffs. And while doing so I hope he still takes a charge now and then

KB

 

[Gilles]

I love the Battier video, thanks for posting it Gilles.

The Irony is that the Kings two best players are like different sides of the charge taken coin. DMC is great at taking charges and Tyreke's drives to the basket can be nullified by the exact skill demonstrated by Battier.

I do think Cousins can be a better defensive player. I would like him to model his defensive game after the older versions of Bogut and Duncan we have seen in this years Playoffs. And while doing so I hope he still takes a charge now and then

KB

When James Johnson is spotting up beyond the arc looking to hoist a 3-pointer, Battier is happy to oblige and go look for charges. Heat's offense became best in the League only after they got the shooters to spread the floor, so even LeBron is deeply affected by lack of spacing.

When I played a lot of basketball, I was very good at taking charges and blocking shots. And the truth is that a knee to the groin is just as likely to happen going after an rebound as when taking a charge (I think I got kneed to the groin once while taking a charge). I always found that the player taking a charge ended up landing on his butt while the other guy ended up landing on his knees. BTW, did you notice when Hibbert took a charge against LaBron tonight that his hands were up?

I never saw Boogie getting a jumping charge, so it's irrelevant. What Cousins likes to do is making 2-3 steps trying to get in standstill position when guard is already on his way inside. He gets cheap fouls taking himself out of the game, he also takes himself out of the play if the driving player gets around him.
I understand refs have difficult jobs and Heat are always getting too much benefit of the doubt but to be fair.

 

[rhythmless]

When I played a lot of basketball, I was very good at taking charges and blocking shots. And the truth is that a knee to the groin is just as likely to happen going after an rebound as when taking a charge (I think I got kneed to the groin once while taking a charge). I always found that the player taking a charge ended up landing on his butt while the other guy ended up landing on his knees. BTW, did you notice when Hibbert took a charge against LaBron tonight that his hands were up?

I will dispute that rebounds get knees to groins as much as non protected charge stances, but we can't really say who's right.

Hibbert wasn't trying to take a charge, he got the charge call. There's a HUGE difference. First and foremost, Hibbert was making a basketball play to defend and the ref deemed that the other guy sufficiently went into Hibbert's space to warrant the charge. The formal charge, the act of trying to get a ref to blow the whistle, is a play for the ref. It's like running backwards after you've beat your defender, or jumping sideways on a shot. These are plays designed to get the ref to decide your fate. Hibbert contested the shot and got a charge. A Battier and DMC charge is a non contest, but a "my body is here and I'm entitled to stand here protecting my nuts" play. Big difference.

 

[Telemachus]

I will dispute that rebounds get knees to groins as much as non protected charge stances, but we can't really say who's right.

Hibbert wasn't trying to take a charge, he got the charge call. There's a HUGE difference. First and foremost, Hibbert was making a basketball play to defend and the ref deemed that the other guy sufficiently went into Hibbert's space to warrant the charge. The formal charge, the act of trying to get a ref to blow the whistle, is a play for the ref. It's like running backwards after you've beat your defender, or jumping sideways on a shot. These are plays designed to get the ref to decide your fate. Hibbert contested the shot and got a charge. A Battier and DMC charge is a non contest, but a "my body is here and I'm entitled to stand here protecting my nuts" play. Big difference.

I think we are coming at this from two different ways. IMO, there are 2 ways to get a charge call. 1. Go out and do whatever you can to get in front of players and fall down (ala Derek Fisher, Horry, Battier, etc.) 2. Get a charge called while keeping defensive position during the course of the game. Cousins has shown the ability to do both, while doing more of the latter the more he plays. I have never been a fan of players that look to fall down whenever there is contact. While you get some calls that way, you also create a 5 on 4 mismatch when there is no call. Duncan, Hibbert, Noah, and Chandler all get their share of drawn charges (with their hands up) by keeping good defensive position. This results in getting a few charges, some blocking fouls, and a lot of no-calls while still allowing them to possibly change/block a shot and stay in position for a defensive rebound. Cousins has shown the ability to do this as well; although, as their overall defense as a team fell apart we saw a lot less of it.

 

[mac]

I think we are coming at this from two different ways. IMO, there are 2 ways to get a charge call. 1. Go out and do whatever you can to get in front of players and fall down (ala Derek Fisher, Horry, Battier, etc.) 2. Get a charge called while keeping defensive position during the course of the game. Cousins has shown the ability to do both, while doing more of the latter the more he plays. I have never been a fan of players that look to fall down whenever there is contact. While you get some calls that way, you also create a 5 on 4 mismatch when there is no call. Duncan, Hibbert, Noah, and Chandler all get their share of drawn charges (with their hands up) by keeping good defensive position. This results in getting a few charges, some blocking fouls, and a lot of no-calls while still allowing them to possibly change/block a shot and stay in position for a defensive rebound. Cousins has shown the ability to do this as well; although, as their overall defense as a team fell apart we saw a lot less of it.

Well we'll have to disagree w.r.t Cousins then, because I rarely if ever see him take a charge jumping straight up in the air. As far as I remember he's always sliding over to try to get outside of the restricted circle with his hands down.