Carlisle Fired!

if the maloofs wanna get serious about defense...carlisle wouldn't be a bad guy to go with. he's got to at least be on the list. i'm not a huge fan of the style of play he prefers, but he's very very capable, and he's a proven winner. as for his chemistry with his players, i can't really speak to that. stephen jackson, ron artest, jermaine o'neal...all those guys have heavy personalities, so i could see them clashing with a coach like carlisle, who prefers to be in control. but tell me, what do you guys want? people say they want a real hardass to come in and whip this team into shape a la gregg popovich...well, carlisle is one of those kind of guys.

thing is, this team is in a huge transition period. we have no style. kevin martin alone cannot be the deciding factor in choosing a coach. he's the only "must keep" kinda guy on the kings right now, and there's really nobody else on the team that can keep up with him in a fast-paced style, except francisco garcia, ronnie price, and maybe justin williams. martin's emerging, but the other three are still trying to stake a claim in the nba. the kings aren't a fast-paced team as of yet. they're really a whole lotta nothing in terms of style, so style will be dictated by the coach that comes in.
 
nbrans said:
Actually, I've already had second thoughts -- if Kevin Martin is the centerpiece and you want to play to the young guys' strengths, this should be a running team -- and that's not Carlisle's style. Carlisle is such a half-court coach. I don't know. Maybe he's not a great fit for the future direction.
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Kevin Martin shouldn't be the centerpiece.

I agree about playing to the team's strengths, and if you have a young team with no real post-up player, then you have to run in order to score points. I expect us to have a team that gets up and down the floor the next couple of seasons, whether we're good or not.

I don't think Carlisle is opposed to having a fast-tempo offense. The two teams he's coached had strengths that made a half-court approach acceptable. The Pistons had one of the best defenses in the League, so slowing the ball down played into their favor. And the Pacers have Jermaine O'Neal, so you should slow down and get the ball to your superstar.

If we wind up with a team that can get out in the open floor and push the tempo - and that needs to do so in order to get points - I don't see any reason why Carlisle would prevent that from happening.

I'd like to see him at least come in and interview for the spot. He's a good coach who has had success everywhere he's been, he has a defensive mindset, and he probably has a better resume than anyone else available. He and SVG are now my top two choices.
 
I'm not in a hurry for Petrie to get back and roll out the red carpet for Carlisle. I really havent been impressed with him at all, cant put my finger on it, but I dont think he'd be right for this job. We wont be shipping Artest out anytime soon(nobody wants him) so I guess that kind of disqualifies Carlisle from getting this job, anyways.
 
Superman said:
Kevin Martin shouldn't be the centerpiece.

I agree about playing to the team's strengths, and if you have a young team with no real post-up player, then you have to run in order to score points. I expect us to have a team that gets up and down the floor the next couple of seasons, whether we're good or not.

I don't think Carlisle is opposed to having a fast-tempo offense. The two teams he's coached had strengths that made a half-court approach acceptable. The Pistons had one of the best defenses in the League, so slowing the ball down played into their favor. And the Pacers have Jermaine O'Neal, so you should slow down and get the ball to your superstar.

If we wind up with a team that can get out in the open floor and push the tempo - and that needs to do so in order to get points - I don't see any reason why Carlisle would prevent that from happening.

I'd like to see him at least come in and interview for the spot. He's a good coach who has had success everywhere he's been, he has a defensive mindset, and he probably has a better resume than anyone else available. He and SVG are now my top two choices.
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Jermaine wanted to run more, and also complained about not getting more touches. The fact they let Carlisle go, indicates they're more interested in appeasing JO.

With this news, the Kings have one more team bidding for Iavaroni's services.
 
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something about Carlisle gives off a Musselman-like vibe to me. Not sure why or what it is exactly. But part of me is suspicious.
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
I'm not in a hurry for Petrie to get back and roll out the red carpet for Carlisle. I really havent been impressed with him at all, cant put my finger on it, but I dont think he'd be right for this job. We wont be shipping Artest out anytime soon(nobody wants him) so I guess that kind of disqualifies Carlisle from getting this job, anyways.
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If that's true, we've got huge problems going forward. If we can't hire a highly qualified coach because our best player won't get along with him, then we're further up the creek than I thought. I don't think we can let ourselves be hamstrung by the idea that a certain coach isn't going to get along with a certain player, so we can't hire him.
 
Packt said:
Jermaine wanted to run more, and also complained about not getting more touches. The fact they let Carlisle go, indicates they're more interested in appeasing JO.

With this news, the Kings have one more team bidding for Iavaroni's services.
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Link?

If that's true, Jermaine doesn't know what he wants. Or he doesn't know how to get it. A center isn't going to get more touches by demanding a high-tempo offense. If you want to force-feed the ball to your best post-up player, you slow the tempo down.

And of course the team is going to be more interested in appeasing their $100 million player than the coach. They have to be. It's simple finances.

Carlisle is a proven head coach in the NBA, having had reasonable success with two separate teams, showing the ability to improve both of them in a short period of time. He coaches fundamentally sound basketball, and is a coach with a defensive mentality. I'd much rather have him than Iavaroni, who hasn't put his name on anything yet.

I'm not sure what the whole fascination with Iavaroni is, anyway. Could someone bring me up to speed, please?
 
I do not want Rick Carlisle. He may have more "reasonable success" but he's also much more of a dictator than a coach. I like the idea of Iavaroni because I've been watching the Suns and he seems to be an integral part of the whole D'Antoni team. And that sounds good to me...

And, to respond to CaminoChaos, I do NOT want Larry Brown. I want a long-term coach who will, like Adelman, be here for more than one or two seasons at most. I want a coach that will transcend a couple of years of player rotations.
 
CaminoChaos said:
I think I said our head coach. Meaning the Kings. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was there is nobody on this board (besides a few) that would not take Pop or Brown. I don't care about the Knicks.
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If we're looking for coaches that are proven winners, there are only a few out there:

Larry Brown
Rick Adelman
Stan Van Gundy
and now Rick Carlisle

We won't go after Brown or Adleman and I don't think they'd want us either. If it was between Van Gundy and Carlisle, Carlisle has proven much more although either are good choices.

I don't want to take another flyer on an inexperienced guy or try to catch the next big coach on his way up. It's like pinning your hopes on a 2nd round draft pick. It could work out, but the chances are very small that it will. I want experience
 
VF21 said:
I do not want Rick Carlisle. He may have more "reasonable success" but he's also much more of a dictator than a coach. I like the idea of Iavaroni because I've been watching the Suns and he seems to be an integral part of the whole D'Antoni team. And that sounds good to me...

And, to respond to CaminoChaos, I do NOT want Larry Brown. I want a long-term coach who will, like Adelman, be here for more than one or two seasons at most. I want a coach that will transcend a couple of years of player rotations.
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You can say the same for Popovich but the trick is having the right team to buy into program. Do we have that "right team"? I don't know. But Carlilse had more head cases in Indiana than we do in here. So I say it's worth a shot.
 
Packt said:
Jermaine wanted to run more, and also complained about not getting more touches. The fact they let Carlisle go, indicates they're more interested in appeasing JO.

With this news, the Kings have one more team bidding for Iavaroni's services.
Click to expand...


That Pacers roster is a mess and for Iavaroni to accept that job would be suicide. He won't go and coach there, especially when he could go and coach other rosters with more flexibility.
 
CaminoChaos said:
You can say the same for Popovich but the trick is having the right team to buy into program. Do we have that "right team"? I don't know. But Carlilse had more head cases in Indiana than we do in here. So I say it's worth a shot.
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How many Pacers games have you watched? How many visits have you made to PacersDigest?

Carlisle is a rigid-style coach, in the same mold as Musselman. I don't think he'll jump right into another coaching job.
 
Carlisle lost his players in Indiana and by the MANY after game comments made by players that was obvious. Not a good option for the Kings.
 
CaminoChaos said:
You can say the same for Popovich
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Not to mention Jerry Sloan.....a stern dictator can be very successful.

Having said that, I do not know how much time we should spend typing about RC. I do not see how we could bring him here with Ron still here and I think we will have a new coach before Ron is dealt somewhere (if at all).
 
VF21 said:
How many Pacers games have you watched? How many visits have you made to PacersDigest?.
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What does this have to do with Pacers having headcases.

VF21 said:
Carlisle is a rigid-style coach, in the same mold as Musselman. I don't think he'll jump right into another coaching job.
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There are alot of successful "rigid-style" coaches. Ho can you compare Muss and Carlilse. Carlisle wins games, Muss doesn't.
 
While he is great with Xs and Os, he is a micro manager and something that players hated. He was calling every play from the sideline. In terms of player management he is a bit like Muss except with a better understanding for coaching.

I would still prefer SVG. Carlisle is not what you would consider as a one franchise, long term coach.
 
Carlisle?

Tell me why not?

I say absolutely yes. We would have trade Artest, so once that dirty deed is done, bring him on.
 
I think he is a real good coach....I thought he did his best coaching job the year of the brawl. With 3 players suspended for long periods of time(including Artest for the year) he was 44-38. Pretty impressive. I also believe that the year Artest was DPOY was 03-04 and Carlisle was his coach.
 
VF21 said:
I do not want Rick Carlisle. He may have more "reasonable success" but he's also much more of a dictator than a coach. I like the idea of Iavaroni because I've been watching the Suns and he seems to be an integral part of the whole D'Antoni team. And that sounds good to me...

And, to respond to CaminoChaos, I do NOT want Larry Brown. I want a long-term coach who will, like Adelman, be here for more than one or two seasons at most. I want a coach that will transcend a couple of years of player rotations.
Click to expand...

I know you read the Pacers forums than the rest of us, but were there more posters calling for his head there than there were Adelman-bashers here last yaer? Just because there's a vocal minority doesn't mean everyone's soured on the guy.

Carlisle has shown he can turn teams around and win with different types of player rotations. He's more proven than any of the asisstants out there, and has less baggage than any of the former head coaches.

Sluggah said:
something about Carlisle gives off a Musselman-like vibe to me. Not sure why or what it is exactly. But part of me is suspicious.
Click to expand...

I had actually hoped Muss turned into a Carlisle. Yes, they have a simliar style--that was obvious from the beginning. But Carlisle won coach of the year, and more importantly, won the respect of his players. Muss never had that, and likely never will. The vibe may be accurate, but the repercussions likely won't there.
 
VF21 said:
I do not want Rick Carlisle. He may have more "reasonable success" but he's also much more of a dictator than a coach. I like the idea of Iavaroni because I've been watching the Suns and he seems to be an integral part of the whole D'Antoni team. And that sounds good to me...
Click to expand...
I don't mean to be contrary, but could you explain this to me? What has Iavaroni done - that can be credited to him - that makes everyone think he's the next big thing? What does he have his name on? He's never been a head coach anywhere, not college, D-League, CBA, nothing.

If you're looking to hire a coach, his name would definitely be on the list, I think. He's the top assistant for a top team three years running, a team that apparently holds him in very high regard. And good assistants often make good head coaches. That's all well and good. I could definitely see him having the potential to be a good head coach.

What I'd like to know is why anyone would take a chance on an assistant - albeit a reportedly good one - when you have the chance to have a guy who has had success as a head coach for several seasons. To me, Rick Carlisle >>> Marc Iavaroni, regardless of their coaching styles, simply because he has been THE GUY and has done reasonably well. He's not Pop or Sloan or even Larry Brown, but he has shown his ability to coach winning basketball. Iavaroni has not.

It's like sidney said:
I don't want to take another flyer on an inexperienced guy or try to catch the next big coach on his way up. It's like pinning your hopes on a 2nd round draft pick. It could work out, but the chances are very small that it will. I want experience.
Click to expand...

Carlisle has experience.

Again, I wouldn't complain about Iavaroni being the next head coach. I just don't understand why you'd want him instead of Carlisle, or even Stan van Gundy.
 
Superman said:
Link?

If that's true, Jermaine doesn't know what he wants. Or he doesn't know how to get it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I searched but couldn't come up with anything. I might have been mistaken. He's said a lot the past two years, and I could've sworn one of the things he wanted, was to run more. I thought that was why they tried to play a more up-tempo style this year, but looking at their record, I don't think it was much of a success. It was just this year during a bad stretch that Jermaine complained about not getting touches on the low block. Pacers fans might be able to shed light on the situation.
 
I'm pretty hesitant when it comes to Carlisle. I don't for a moment think he's as bad as Muss or anything, but Muss' inept micromanagement did such a complete job of killing team chemistry... I dunno. I just imagine Carlisle walking into Arco, and all the players going "Oh, no, not again."
 
Carlisle a) instantly becomes one of the best coaches on the market; but b) also becomes a guy who has already been canned twice despite a lot of intial success, and who has had a lot of players angry with him for strangling the game.

If we were to hire him, that would be a good professional move and I think instantly improve our prospects for next season. On the other hand, it should come as a shock to nobody on this board if a year or two down the line we start hearing ominous rumblings from the locker room. Like MUss, Carlisle is a guy who really needs to look in the mirror and adapt. Makes no difference at all how brilliant a basketball mind you are if nobody wants to play for you.

Obviously Ron would have to go. And yes, Kevin would then slide into the Reggie role I suspect.
 
Smills91 said:
Brad Miller/SAR/Justin Williams/Kenny Thomas/draft pick...that's potentially 5 bigs for the rotation. Could be worse.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... when I look at that list, I see a raw rookie, 2 guys not known for their defense, KT, and a draft pick that might end up being a guard.

Could be worse, we could be without Justin.

But is that the sort of game we want? Arco famously loud for having 18,000 people all snoring in unison?
 
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