Brad has not been the same since he broke his leg like 2 or 3 years ago, the Kings should have traded him over the offseason, and hey you really can't blame Muss b/c he is a defensive coach with alot of offensive players, so I blame it on the King's organization for not getting defensive guys in here during the offseason. Another reason the Kings suck is b/c the lost of Bonzi Wells, with Bonzi and Ron on the court together they brought TOUGHNESS and others around the league were intimidated knowing that they were going to be very sore after taking the pounding that these two were going to dish out, and I love Kev but no one fears him and Bonzi rebounded the ball, something the current Kings don't want to do. So can you really blame Muss a defensive coach with no defensive bigs just a bunch of SOFT offensive minded crybabies that always complains to the refs when things aren't going their way? Well my answer is NO!!!
Can you really blame MUSS?
- Thread starter jay dubb
- Start date
Yes you can jay dubb. Not for all of it to be sure. But for losing control of it, having no leadership or discernible plan, absolutely. And ironically maybe in the end this can help us. Maybe by sucking so bad we are forced to finally rebuild rather than attempt to bore the fanbase out of existence. But that doesn't change the fact that Muss hasn't done even a passable job with these players. He has failed to reach Ron, has no clue how to use Brad, never resolved the PF platoon, seems determined to underuse Kevin, and apparently does not even have a simple pick and roll in his mythical playbook to try to steady Mike's game. He has also squished Cisco, abandoned Price, given Douby time he had not earned, and then taken it away once he seemed too, and now seems determined to let Williams rot on the vine too. On the entire roster he seems to have maybe 2 guys who like playing for him: Salmons who may be the one guy he trusts too much, and Corliss who is just a pro and plays through it all. So yes, you can blame Muss. Not for everything. Not for that pipedream stuff about us being a contender or whatnot. But it never should have gotten this ugly this fast.
To answer the first question, Yes, you can blame Muss. I agree with everything that Brick has said and additionally, the staff he has put together looks more suited to be the management team at Circuit City than it does of being a coaching staff with an NBA team, with the exception of TR. Muss is like the kid in grade school who knew all of the stats from the back of every baseball card and could talk to you for hours about who did what in what year and so on and so forth, but when it came time to play was completely lost. Moreover, Petrie and the Maloofs deserve some blame as well. Petrie, for his inaction and the Maloofs for their decision to let Adelman walk. Although the on the floor product is horrible right now, I'm sure the Maloofs are very pleased with THEIR coach who can connect with the fan base more and be more of a public friendly figure than Adelman was, because as we all know, that's what matters at the end of the day.
The reason that I have a problem with him is close to hat Brick said. Even last year when we had a similiar record, the team never seemed this clueless and disjointed. Nobody is leading the ship. The Guys that are our leaders on the floor are not on the floor together or with any continuity. That is Muss's call. He takes Ron and Mike out at the ODDEST times. He decides rotations and playing time. IMHO, that his killed us. Again, as Brick said, it is not all his fault. THe Maloofs, Petrie, and the players are to blame as well. But Muss was the one that got the job because he was prepared and had a plan. He seems like a lost little boy during the game. He seems to have no more of a clue of what to do than average guy in the stands - even less at times.
The Kings roster STINKS just tell the truth, don't try to blame the coach for the L's. Muss has been saying from day one if you play defense you will win games (hmm... I thought that is what the Kings fans wanted a defensive minded coach but hey I guess I was wrong), but the thing that I don't get is why they don't have any defensive minded bigs. Until they get some defensive minded players they will continue to SUCK period. All the coach can do is tell the players to play defense its up to the players to do it but lets be real here even if the Kings tried to play defense they couldn't b/c they lack shotblocking and athleticsism on the frontline, and like Charles Barkley said, the Kings are in no mans land they should just start over and rebuild b/c if they do some how get to the playoffs they are going to be an 8th seed and get their brains beat out by the Mavs, Suns, or Spurs.
But I'm glad it did because of the uprising that this ugly situation is causing with the fans. Nobody really wanted to have another .500esque season, only to have another and another and another. I don't think GP will be able to get by with another "bandaid" acquasition. He's forced to be in the place right now where least wants to be and that's in the spotlight. All eyes are on him because he needs to get something done and really the only thing to do now is start over. End this bad relationship GP. If you really love her, you'll let her go. And the Maloof's need to let him do it. Sadly, this didn't happen last year. Don't get me wrong, Ron played great last year after we got him, but right now he's acting like a middle schooler who's mad that he's on the "B" team when it's his own fault he's there. If the losing had gone on last year, GP probably would have blown up the team and started over so that like everyone is saying, we can stomach, maybe even be excited about sucking because we see a purpose behind it. We could be one year into the rebuild.
Here's a couple more thoughts: Yes, Muss can be blamed for this. He should be doing a much better job than he is. Nobody cares how great the team is in practice when they are playing themselves, which seems to be the only thing Muss can find to say that's positive. What matters is the win/loss column. However, I don't think he's entirely to blame. I think that GP knew all along that Muss was not the right coach. He didn't particularly want to let Adleman go, but it wasn't his choice. In a way I almost feel that he's teaching the Maloof's a lesson about making rash decisions and forcing him into things.
As far as rebuilding on the fly, I think that is a Maloof thing as well. These guys aren't just basketball fans like they say they are, they're businessmen, and this is their investment. They're telling GP to keep the team at a point where there's going to be butts in seats at Arco instead of letting him do what he needs to do to make this team a contender like they say. So forcing GP to keep a certain product on the floor is like telling him to do his job with one arm tied behind his back. He doesn't have the freedom that so many of us assume he has. The Maloofs are gamblers and they pride themselves on that, but they haven't to this point placed a risky bet. Ron Artest? Not nearly as risky as keeping Peja around for another year. It's time for the Maloofs to put in all their chips and let Petrie start this thing over like he did before they took over the majority. If they don't like it, sell the team and buy another one so that we aren't worried about our Kings leaving Sacramento.
What I'd like to see for this team this year:
Keep Kevin, Cisco, Price, Douby, and Williams. Trade everyone else for young guys and draft picks. Let these five guys play big minutes together the next 50 games and let them run and be aggressive and ENTERTAINING and make their mistakes in a season that is already lost. Kevin's PPG will go up even more. Cisco can hopefully rebuild the confidence he hasn't quite recovered from the infamous ankle incident. We got a flash of what Douby can do last week. Ronnie's a good player with a lot of promise who's going to be really good, but needs more court time, and I don't know squat about williams, but he's big and a hell of a rebounder and shot blocker. I don't know about Douby yet, but the rest of these guys are pretty good defenders too. Then with these last 50 games under their belts, maybe they can lead the charge next season and win at least as many games as our current team would/will win this year. And then win a few more the next after a couple more trades and first rounders...
To the rest of the team, thanks for the memories. There were some really good times and I won't forget them.
Here's a couple more thoughts: Yes, Muss can be blamed for this. He should be doing a much better job than he is. Nobody cares how great the team is in practice when they are playing themselves, which seems to be the only thing Muss can find to say that's positive. What matters is the win/loss column. However, I don't think he's entirely to blame. I think that GP knew all along that Muss was not the right coach. He didn't particularly want to let Adleman go, but it wasn't his choice. In a way I almost feel that he's teaching the Maloof's a lesson about making rash decisions and forcing him into things.
As far as rebuilding on the fly, I think that is a Maloof thing as well. These guys aren't just basketball fans like they say they are, they're businessmen, and this is their investment. They're telling GP to keep the team at a point where there's going to be butts in seats at Arco instead of letting him do what he needs to do to make this team a contender like they say. So forcing GP to keep a certain product on the floor is like telling him to do his job with one arm tied behind his back. He doesn't have the freedom that so many of us assume he has. The Maloofs are gamblers and they pride themselves on that, but they haven't to this point placed a risky bet. Ron Artest? Not nearly as risky as keeping Peja around for another year. It's time for the Maloofs to put in all their chips and let Petrie start this thing over like he did before they took over the majority. If they don't like it, sell the team and buy another one so that we aren't worried about our Kings leaving Sacramento.
What I'd like to see for this team this year:
Keep Kevin, Cisco, Price, Douby, and Williams. Trade everyone else for young guys and draft picks. Let these five guys play big minutes together the next 50 games and let them run and be aggressive and ENTERTAINING and make their mistakes in a season that is already lost. Kevin's PPG will go up even more. Cisco can hopefully rebuild the confidence he hasn't quite recovered from the infamous ankle incident. We got a flash of what Douby can do last week. Ronnie's a good player with a lot of promise who's going to be really good, but needs more court time, and I don't know squat about williams, but he's big and a hell of a rebounder and shot blocker. I don't know about Douby yet, but the rest of these guys are pretty good defenders too. Then with these last 50 games under their belts, maybe they can lead the charge next season and win at least as many games as our current team would/will win this year. And then win a few more the next after a couple more trades and first rounders...
To the rest of the team, thanks for the memories. There were some really good times and I won't forget them.
Prior to Ron getting here last season, the team was on the same path as it is now. Average to crap.
Nothing's changed. Ron was just a huge shot in the arm. Somebody that didn't really take a play off, didn't whine when he got hacked and yelled at the ref while the other guys attempted to play 4 on 5 defense. Somebody that played balls out.
That shot in the arm wore out, as it eventually would.
And that's the most annoying thing...this team could be pretty decent if they all played with desire and passion. Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, and Brad Miller isn't a bad team, on paper. Matter of fact, that's not a bad team if they played every play like it was their last as they did in the final months of last season.
Nothing's changed. Ron was just a huge shot in the arm. Somebody that didn't really take a play off, didn't whine when he got hacked and yelled at the ref while the other guys attempted to play 4 on 5 defense. Somebody that played balls out.
That shot in the arm wore out, as it eventually would.
And that's the most annoying thing...this team could be pretty decent if they all played with desire and passion. Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, and Brad Miller isn't a bad team, on paper. Matter of fact, that's not a bad team if they played every play like it was their last as they did in the final months of last season.
I agree with that. Give the young guys serious PT. Get what we can from the others on their way out.
But... I would still want the Kings to be competitive, and not just aggressive. Sometimes teams that stink real bad end up giving birth to a culture of losing. Been there, done that. Don't need to go back.
But... I would still want the Kings to be competitive, and not just aggressive. Sometimes teams that stink real bad end up giving birth to a culture of losing. Been there, done that. Don't need to go back.
Yeah, I agree with what Bricklayer and ezekielbear have said in this thread. This team should be a whole lot better, and a good portion of that is on the coach. But he's aimless, doesn't have credibility, and he's unable to inspire the team. It's not all his fault, but he deserves a big chunk of the blame.
This team is at least 5 games better with Adelman and his staff, I must admit. So you tell me, does the current coach merit some blame?
I was of the opinion that Rick should go, by the way, so what do I know?
I was of the opinion that Rick should go, by the way, so what do I know?
I so disagree with a lot of this but again, not sure its even worth my time to put up a fight.
Every year, we lose games and its fire this coach or blame this player or that one. I will maintain until we actually get a team that can play together... NO matter the coach we are screwed.
Hate to say it but the Me first starting players are killing us... Bibby, Artest, Kt
okay 3 of the 5... Kevin is our only #2/#3 option as I see it thats worth keeping. He still is scared to shoot if anybody is remotely near him so that is a big concern I have. The killer instinct he still doesn't have, hence the I think he will only ever be a #3/2 which is great, if we have a true #1
It's not a matter of using Brad IMO, I think Brad is about done. Would love to be proven wrong but his skills have been on the downslide for a while.. Does anyone remember the Brad from Indy? The banger? We haven't seen that since he came here. Even during the RA days.
Bibby, Love bibby but he needs that #1 to get the ball too, he needs that big PF/C that plays d to make up for the lack of D he plays.
Artest well he is in the top 5 for his position. He really doesn't have a team around him, not to mention major TO issues.. always thinks he is the man... However he has never been the man, never proved he could be the man. He needs to take a page out of Christies book. Just play D... take the open shots and create his shots by driving to the lane. Sure he will hit that 3ptr now and then but more likely its not going in. He is not the man.
My question is, since we see the Webb getting bought out... Why dont we just wave lets say about 50% of our team.... Or at worst KT.
Now what I will admit about Muss, he has no clue on substitutions... There is no way any player in that locker room knows wth type of time they will get night in and night out. He has a proven losing record at all his stops. So, its time for even me to admit.... Muss will be a good coach only when he has studs in the entire lineup. Which we don't... RA had that ability to get a little more out of people. Well at least he was a pretty awesome regular season coach. Don't get me started on post season with him. AKA Marty.
Brick pointed out the benefits of muss though. Finally we stop being 8th seed or 1st round knock outs. Hopefully we get a high pick, and if muss continues this mess fire him and then get back to the chance at a ring. However we are far far away from that. I also think Muss is here for at least 2 more years.
Dont mind any waxer grammar, spelling I work nights... Time to go to sleep
Every year, we lose games and its fire this coach or blame this player or that one. I will maintain until we actually get a team that can play together... NO matter the coach we are screwed.
Hate to say it but the Me first starting players are killing us... Bibby, Artest, Kt
okay 3 of the 5... Kevin is our only #2/#3 option as I see it thats worth keeping. He still is scared to shoot if anybody is remotely near him so that is a big concern I have. The killer instinct he still doesn't have, hence the I think he will only ever be a #3/2 which is great, if we have a true #1
It's not a matter of using Brad IMO, I think Brad is about done. Would love to be proven wrong but his skills have been on the downslide for a while.. Does anyone remember the Brad from Indy? The banger? We haven't seen that since he came here. Even during the RA days.
Bibby, Love bibby but he needs that #1 to get the ball too, he needs that big PF/C that plays d to make up for the lack of D he plays.
Artest well he is in the top 5 for his position. He really doesn't have a team around him, not to mention major TO issues.. always thinks he is the man... However he has never been the man, never proved he could be the man. He needs to take a page out of Christies book. Just play D... take the open shots and create his shots by driving to the lane. Sure he will hit that 3ptr now and then but more likely its not going in. He is not the man.
My question is, since we see the Webb getting bought out... Why dont we just wave lets say about 50% of our team.... Or at worst KT.
Now what I will admit about Muss, he has no clue on substitutions... There is no way any player in that locker room knows wth type of time they will get night in and night out. He has a proven losing record at all his stops. So, its time for even me to admit.... Muss will be a good coach only when he has studs in the entire lineup. Which we don't... RA had that ability to get a little more out of people. Well at least he was a pretty awesome regular season coach. Don't get me started on post season with him. AKA Marty.
Brick pointed out the benefits of muss though. Finally we stop being 8th seed or 1st round knock outs. Hopefully we get a high pick, and if muss continues this mess fire him and then get back to the chance at a ring. However we are far far away from that. I also think Muss is here for at least 2 more years.
Dont mind any waxer grammar, spelling I work nights... Time to go to sleep
Last edited:
I just find it funny how most people want to blame Muss but I ask this:
If we fire Muss and go out and get another coach that supposedly preaches defense, does anyone really think that coach could get our current roster to play defense? And let alone implement it within ONE year?
Everyone's lack of resolve around here is astounding.
I'm not suggesting Muss is a great coach, or even a good one, but for pete's sake he is not the reason why we can't defend. And we did not bring him here to get the team to score points. So why are so many people throwing Muss under the bus?
You can break down the majority of our losses to lack of interior defense, lack of rebounding, and lack of veterans like Bibby and Artest hitting their shots.
And on a personal note, it is easier for me to withstand our current state of suckyness knowing it is the Oden draft. Earlier in the season no one in their right state of mind would have predicted that we could potentially be in the running for Oden, but here we are, knocking on the door, sitting in the top 10.
If we fire Muss and go out and get another coach that supposedly preaches defense, does anyone really think that coach could get our current roster to play defense? And let alone implement it within ONE year?
Everyone's lack of resolve around here is astounding.
I'm not suggesting Muss is a great coach, or even a good one, but for pete's sake he is not the reason why we can't defend. And we did not bring him here to get the team to score points. So why are so many people throwing Muss under the bus?
You can break down the majority of our losses to lack of interior defense, lack of rebounding, and lack of veterans like Bibby and Artest hitting their shots.
And on a personal note, it is easier for me to withstand our current state of suckyness knowing it is the Oden draft. Earlier in the season no one in their right state of mind would have predicted that we could potentially be in the running for Oden, but here we are, knocking on the door, sitting in the top 10.