Bring Gay off the bench?

DesertFox

DesertFox

Starter
The reasoning goes without saying, and the idea isn't unprecedented, with the reigning champs doing it to their biggest fa signing.

The exact minutes will fluctuate, maybe you like/hate ben or want to see acy etc, but just showing what is possible:

Cuz 34 kk 14
WCS 24 kk 10 Omri 14
Omri 10 gay 34 marco 4
Ben 24 marco 16 dc 8
Rondo 32 dc 16

Cuz 36
Gay 34
Rondo 32
Kk dc omri wcs ben 24
Marco 20

9 man rotation, role payers getting fair minutes. Plug in the 10th guy as matchups require.

3 stars, 1 off the bench, keeping 2 on the floor at all times.
 
Last edited:
Bricklayer said:
No, the reasoning needs a lot of saying.

We won ONE game playing a young mediocre team, with both our PGs starting the game, and with Ben and Collison pretty much sucking eggs.
Click to expand...

Ok, each of these stars is most effective with the ball. Cuz is always a threat with or without, but rondo becomes useless, and Gay nearly so.

Rondo will always have the ball as the pg, so Gay will be third in touches when all on the floor. And what makes Gay special is his ability to create and have a decent chance of scoring from anywhere, the stereotypical athletic wing.
If you bring Rudy off the bench, you minimize the time they all spend together, maximizing their talents.

Rondo and Cuz can continue doing their thing, but now we can see more of the Gay Cuz p&r, and Collison is a much bigger threat than rondo off the ball.
Then when you have Cuz getting his rest, rondo can focus his magic on getting Gay easy looks.
You still close out the game with those three, you just keep 2 of them in the game at all times.
 
DesertFox said:
Ok, each of these stars is most effective with the ball. Cuz is always a threat with or without, but rondo becomes useless, and Gay nearly so.

Rondo will always have the ball as the pg, so Gay will be third in touches when all on the floor. And what makes Gay special is his ability to create and have a decent chance of scoring from anywhere, the stereotypical athletic wing.
If you bring Rudy off the bench, you minimize the time they all spend together, maximizing their talents.

Rondo and Cuz can continue doing their thing, but now we can see more of the Gay Cuz p&r, and Collison is a much bigger threat than rondo off the ball.
Then when you have Cuz getting his rest, rondo can focus his magic on getting Gay easy looks.
You still close out the game with those three, you just keep 2 of them in the game at all times.
Click to expand...


I'm a little nonplussed -- our center, despite missing half a game because of an achilles, was averaging 27.5pts 11rebs a game coming inot this one, and our PG has been knocking off triples doubles like Magic Johnson. If Rudy's been suppressing them he's been pretty damn sneaky about it.

I think Ben is the more likely suppressed, but as mentioned Ben himself has been much better the last week with Gay than he was tonight without him.
 
Bricklayer said:
I'm a little nonplussed -- our center, despite missing half a game because of an achilles, was averaging 27.5pts 11rebs a game coming inot this one, and our PG has been knocking off triples doubles like Magic Johnson. If Rudy's been suppressing them he's been pretty damn sneaky about it.
Click to expand...

It's the opposite, Rudy has been suppressed.

The minutes stay the same, but the balance changes, so what would be the problem, besides possibly Gay's ego?

And if it is, then that just adds to the narrative of Rudy the team killer, which I don't believe.
 
kingsboi said:
How about just playing him at the 3 instead?
Click to expand...

This! And I'm not even really that enamored with Rudy. . . But even I can admit that he was a beast at the 3 for Malone, and got even beastlier under Karl at the 3!

.... so naturally we move him to the 4, because that worked out so well in Toronto.
 
Sac.1989 said:
Rudy was the best sf in the west last season when KD was injured.

No way in hell is he a bench player
Click to expand...

On a 30 win team, I don't get your point. The defensive player of the year may have something to say about that too.

He can get the same pt. The spurs third wheel came off the bench. The finals mvp does it (yeah I know it was fringy), there's a long history of off the bench offensive weapons. And for all his talents, Rudy has what to show for it, besides a contract and bad rep?

And the obsession with Rudy at pf? He's played most of his minutes at sf. For 10-15min you can call him or Omri a stretch four, big deal.
 
Last edited:
No. All of the above give good reasons and also there is a need for stability in the lineup. Karl seems to have been willing to make weird starting lineups in order to preserve his bench (my perception). Now lets start him as a 3 where he can abuse other 3s. Gay has said he feels a bit out of sync physically so let's hope that turns around and he becomes the Rudy of last year.
 
No if you look at the box scores of our starters you will see we need scoring. Collison does not look good with rondo and vice versa. We had to fight hard to beat Orlando and they aren't even an east playoff team heck they aren't even top 12 in east
 
I haven't seen an argument besides brick saying it's not broke, and Gay should play sf, which he does.

Outside of the pre game intros, what will gay lose out on? If his scoring is so needed, why would it be lost playing the last 6 min of the first rather than the first 6?
 
DesertFox said:
I haven't seen an argument besides brick saying it's not broke, and Gay should play sf, which he does.

Outside of the pre game intros, what will gay lose out on? If his scoring is so needed, why would it be lost playing the last 6 min of the first rather than the first 6?
Click to expand...
And that is as good an argument for NOT messing with the line up as it is FOR messing with the line up.
 
Gay obviously just needs to stay at the 3. He mentally gets out of it when he is forced to be near the rim. I think we had him playing center for a minute when Cousins was out. Gay is extremely important to this team. If he's out, we probably shift Collison over to the 2 and he turns into a spot up shooter. Collison needs to come off the bench if Rondo is on this team. And Rondo has earned his minutes. Gay has his issues. But, it is early in the season, look how far Ben has gone being "mentally weak". And Gay is atleast a veteran.
 
In conclusion I think Gay has played sub par, but not enough to potentially crash his career. He has the money and deserves to work into a rhythm. I also would just adore it if Gay would consider stepping up when Cousins is out. But he gets worse every time.
 
Heuge said:
It's embarrassing how quickly folks can react.
Click to expand...

Did anyone besides brick read the post?
This has nothing to do with the last game, small ball, or changing any playing time.

Am I the only one that has seen a sum less than its parts, or has rudy been having a great year?
 
DesertFox said:
Did anyone besides brick read the post?
This has nothing to do with the last game, small ball, or changing any playing time.

Am I the only one that has seen a sum less than its parts, or has rudy been having a great year?
Click to expand...
Its still knee jerk if you are looking at the whole of this season (15 games in, new father, Cousins injured, hard schedule, etc.) He has a career of work to look at.
 
DesertFox said:
On a 30 win team, I don't get your point. The defensive player of the year may have something to say about that too.

He can get the same pt. The spurs third wheel came off the bench. The finals mvp does it (yeah I know it was fringy), there's a long history of off the bench offensive weapons. And for all his talents, Rudy has what to show for it, besides a contract and bad rep?

And the obsession with Rudy at pf? He's played most of his minutes at sf. For 10-15min you can call him or Omri a stretch four, big deal.
Click to expand...

Straw man argument. This isn't the 30-win team. Until our big 3 have a few dozen games together under their belt, I don't think you can even think about making that kind of radical change.

You don't send a player of the caliber of Rudy Gay to come off the bench unless you have a damned good reason to do so. And I don't think you've come anywhere close to making a case. Rudy is a starter. He's going to stay a starter, as he should. We need to be working on our shooting guard position more than we need to worry about replacing Rudy in the starting lineup.
 
DesertFox said:
Did anyone besides brick read the post?
This has nothing to do with the last game, small ball, or changing any playing time.

Am I the only one that has seen a sum less than its parts, or has rudy been having a great year?
Click to expand...

The truth lies somewhere in between your two polar extremes. Give Rudy, Rondo and Cuz a while to get their chemistry going before you jump to a conclusion that, according to your initial comment, goes without saying.
 
VF21 said:
The truth lies somewhere in between your two polar extremes. Give Rudy, Rondo and Cuz a while to get their chemistry going before you jump to a conclusion that, according to your initial comment, goes without saying.
Click to expand...

Sure, because manu off the bench never plays with dubcan/parker. Kukoc never got to play with mj and Scottie.
Ever since iggy went to the bench, his chemistry with steph and klay has tanked.

It's 10 to 15 min where you can spread more of your top players around your role players.

The team has more concerns than with titles like "bench player." Like a player who needs the ball getting more time where he can have it, rather then casspi and belinelli dribbling it off their feet.
 
DesertFox said:
Sure, because manu off the bench never plays with dubcan/parker. Kukoc never got to play with mj and Scottie.
Ever since iggy went to the bench, his chemistry with steph and klay has tanked.

It's 10 to 15 min where you can spread more of your top players around your role players.

The team has more concerns than with titles like "bench player." Like a player who needs the ball getting more time where he can have it, rather then casspi and belinelli dribbling it off their feet.
Click to expand...

We're never gonna see eye-to-eye on this one. :)

You keep bringing up incredibly good teams with solid chemistry, players who trusted each other and great coaches as examples of why it works. (Spurs and Bulls).

I'm saying we're not there or anywhere even close to there yet.
 
I think this team has experimented with the lineups quite a bit already. Bringing Gay from the bench is an experiment with a very, very low priority. The Kings have a very nice bench and they play great together. Shouldn't rock that boat either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Ellis' 27 points off the bench helps the Kings hold on to beat Williamson and the Pelicans 119-111
Replies
0
Views
184
Associated Press
A
twslam07
What Should the Minutes Rotation Be?
Replies
3
Views
371
twslam07
twslam07
B
Crime at the line. "Surging" Fakers 9-1 in L10.
Replies
6
Views
684
mrlaze
M
Capt. Factorial
Can we get a quality player in the 2023 draft?
2
Replies
56
Views
4K
206Fan
2
Ozymandias
A few words on (a)the Jaden Hardy trade (b)the Kings multi-year draft outlook
Replies
3
Views
678
Ozymandias
Ozymandias
Back
Top