Boogie's defense

[Kingsfan23]

The article didn't really tell us anything new about Demarcus. We all know that he gives poor effort defensively and is frequently out of position. The main question is whether Malone will be able to get him to be locked in on every possession? Most of Cousins' problems defensively have to do with effort and focus. I actually don't remember him being this atrocious defensively in college. Maybe a hardass is exactly what Cousins needs.

technique can be taught, but I don't know if motor can. It just is a lot easier to teach a naturally active/competitive specimen without proper form the proper form, than to teach someone who has a lethargic presence to get after it constantly if its not in them. I will be interested to see how Malone/Cousins coexist

 

[bajaden]

technique can be taught, but I don't know if motor can. It just is a lot easier to teach a naturally active/competitive specimen without proper form the proper form, than to teach someone who has a lethargic presence to get after it constantly if its not in them. I will be interested to see how Malone/Cousins coexist

If he wants to be the leader of this team, then he has to step up and act like one. So this year should be revealing. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect effort. Someone mentioned his defense in college. In college, Calapari had him camped out in the post, and basicly told him to rebound and protect the basket. He's actually not a bad man defender in the post. His problems start when he's away from the basket and out on the perimeter. A place Calapari never allowed him to go at Kentucky.

 

[mac]

If he wants to be the leader of this team, then he has to step up and act like one. So this year should be revealing. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect effort. Someone mentioned his defense in college. In college, Calapari had him camped out in the post, and basicly told him to rebound and protect the basket. He's actually not a bad man defender in the post. His problems start when he's away from the basket and out on the perimeter. A place Calapari never allowed him to go at Kentucky.

But a place that Cousins wants to go to now.

 

[bajaden]

But a place that Cousins wants to go to now.

He may have wanted to go there at Kentucky as well. Its up to the coach to decide, not Cousins. At any rate, its difficult to camp out under the basket like you can in college. Just ask Thabeet.

 

[mac]

He may have wanted to go there at Kentucky as well. Its up to the coach to decide, not Cousins. At any rate, its difficult to camp out under the basket like you can in college. Just ask Thabeet.

What if that's what Westphal decided and Cousins wasn't happy about it? I only say this because I very clearly recall Cousins specifically mentioning that he was happy when Smart took over as Smart was going to let him have more freedom playing outside.

 

[ppine]

Great comments so far. I agree. Cousins does not really work on defense and makes some simple mistakes. Coaching would help. Losing weight and getting in better shape would help. He will never have a vertical defensive game and be a shot blocker. The Kings can be winners if he can get to above average on defense.

 

[randymoss1881]

Great comments so far. I agree. Cousins does not really work on defense and makes some simple mistakes. Coaching would help. Losing weight and getting in better shape would help. He will never have a vertical defensive game and be a shot blocker. The Kings can be winners if he can get to above average on defense.

Your right he doesn't need to be a vertical threat or a big time shot blocker. Just look at Marc Gosal Cousins is bigger faster or more agile than him. Cuz just needs to put the effort in and he can become a good team defender. It's all about the system and team trust I've seen cousins hedge the pick and roll perfectly in some games only to see the weak side defender not help the roll man and cousins man scores making him look bad. In return cousins stops showing and our defense becomes messed up.
Malone will hold everyone accountable for themselves. Malone is a defensive guru and has the. Same philosophy as Tom Thibodeau in no middle drives,using ICE for side pick and roll, and defensive rebounding. I'm not saying our Malone is the next Thibodeau but Malones resume was even better than thins before Chicago, players like CP3 were begging for this guy and lebron praises him all the time

 

[Bricklayer]

Your right he doesn't need to be a vertical threat or a big time shot blocker. Just look at Marc Gosal Cousins is bigger faster or more agile than him. Cuz just needs to put the effort in and he can become a good team defender. It's all about the system and team trust I've seen cousins hedge the pick and roll perfectly in some games only to see the weak side defender not help the roll man and cousins man scores making him look bad. In return cousins stops showing and our defense becomes messed up.
Malone will hold everyone accountable for themselves. Malone is a defensive guru and has the. Same philosophy as Tom Thibodeau in no middle drives,using ICE for side pick and roll, and defensive rebounding. I'm not saying our Malone is the next Thibodeau but Malones resume was even better than thins before Chicago, players like CP3 were begging for this guy and lebron praises him all the time

Cousins is not at all bigger than Marc Gasol, in fact Gasol has a clear several inches on him, and it makes a big difference for him.

Cousins is very broad (by NBA standards -- most of these guys are ridiculously skinny), but he's really not that tall for a center. Average really. And he moves well for a man of his mass, but he doesn't move like the skinny gazelles, nor does he jump like them. In short there is no physical reason beyond long reach for him to be a shotblocker. But of course he can be a good position defender.

BTW, straight talk. Some people don't like Cousins. It will eat them up inside if he scores 25ppg and gets all the star attention. Tough ****. He's by far and away your best offensive player. You would LOVE to get 100% Cousins on offense and 100% Cousins on defense, but if you can't, then there is none of this sacrificing his offense for defense nonsense. Not for the lynchpin of your whole offense. You need him to be smart on defense, to give an effort to get back, to not quit. But if it comes down to him losing offensive effectiveness so that his detractors can happily point to it, or him dominating on offense and just being ok on defense, that mix has always always and always been let the star be dominant on offense, get what you can on defense.

The all time greatest of the great can dominate on both ends. But many many HOF greats did not, and the end they sacrificed was not offense if that's where their gifts laid. In short Cousins' offensive abilities will always be a lot more special than his defensive abilities, so that is the core you build around.

 

[The_Jamal]

Cousins is not at all bigger than Marc Gasol, in fact Gasol has a clear several inches on him, and it makes a big difference for him.

Cousins is very broad (by NBA standards -- most of these guys are ridiculously skinny), but he's really not that tall for a center. Average really. And he moves well for a man of his mass, but he doesn't move like the skinny gazelles, nor does he jump like them. In short there is no physical reason beyond long reach for him to be a shotblocker. But of course he can be a good position defender.

BTW, straight talk. Some people don't like Cousins. It will eat them up inside if he scores 25ppg and gets all the star attention. Tough ****. He's by far and away your best offensive player. You would LOVE to get 100% Cousins on offense and 100% Cousins on defense, but if you can't, then there is none of this sacrificing his offense for defense nonsense. Not for the lynchpin of your whole offense. You need him to be smart on defense, to give an effort to get back, to not quit. But if it comes down to him losing offensive effectiveness so that his detractors can happily point to it, or him dominating on offense and just being ok on defense, that mix has always always and always been let the star be dominant on offense, get what you can on defense.

The all time greatest of the great can dominate on both ends. But many many HOF greats did not, and the end they sacrificed was not offense if that's where their gifts laid. In short Cousins' offensive abilities will always be a lot more special than his defensive abilities, so that is the core you build around.

I don't think anyone's asking him to be Hakeem. But it's not unreasonable to ask him to give 100% effort on defense, become a good team/position defender, and just stop being a liability defensively.

And it's not as if he doesn't have the skill or talent level to achieve being an above average defender either. With Boogie, his defensive performance is mainly related to effort. As our star player and franchise player, him busting his butt on both ends every night should not even be a question in my book

 

[Npliam]

I don't think anyone's asking him to be Hakeem. But it's not unreasonable to ask him to give 100% effort on defense, become a good team/position defender, and just stop being a liability defensively.

And it's not as if he doesn't have the skill or talent level to achieve being an above average defender either. With Boogie, his defensive performance is mainly related to effort. As our star player and franchise player, him busting his butt on both ends every night should not even be a question in my book

Uhh....it is totally unreasonable. There are no offensive stars that gave 100% on defense all game. Jordon, Kobe, Lebron were all great defenders that could shut people down but they mostly guarded a weaker offensive player or let one of the other stars on their team dominate offensively. When the game was on the line and their team needed a stop they would guard the other teams best offensive player but that was only in the last couple minutes of the 4th (and sometimes the 2nd) quarter. As great as those players were (and are int he case of LeBron) they simply cannot play at 100% on both ends of the floor.

 

[spudfan]

Uhh....it is totally unreasonable. There are no offensive stars that gave 100% on defense all game. Jordon, Kobe, Lebron were all great defenders that could shut people down but they mostly guarded a weaker offensive player or let one of the other stars on their team dominate offensively. When the game was on the line and their team needed a stop they would guard the other teams best offensive player but that was only in the last couple minutes of the 4th (and sometimes the 2nd) quarter. As great as those players were (and are int he case of LeBron) they simply cannot play at 100% on both ends of the floor.

Yea, and we have all discussed this many times on here. It would make for an interesting poll to see what kind of sacrifice people are willing to see on the offense + rebound side of the game in order for Cousins to give 100% on defense every game. If he fouls out 10% of the games because he is trying to block shots and keep big men out is that acceptable? If can only play 30 minutes a game because he gets in foul trouble early on? And so on. There seems to be one side who believes Cousins giving extra effort on defense is going to hurt the other things he does well. And another side that thinks he should be able to give 100% on defense, and remain the same player everywhere else.

Most of these discussions end up with the side saying he needs to be a defensive "anchor" and giving 100% conceding that they really just want him to play better. The 100% and anchor is just an exaggeration. The other side always says he does need to improve but it would be foolish to expect him to go all out on defense at the expense of his considerably better areas of the game.

I am of the opinion that you don't try to make drastic changes to a star level talent. Doing so risks that they lose what made them special in the first place. Instead you help them improve what they excel at, and try to reduce their vulnerabilities by adding the necessary talent around them. *Cough*Shot blocking sidekick we all want*Cough*

 

[mac]

Yea, and we have all discussed this many times on here. It would make for an interesting poll to see what kind of sacrifice people are willing to see on the offense + rebound side of the game in order for Cousins to give 100% on defense every game. If he fouls out 10% of the games because he is trying to block shots and keep big men out is that acceptable? If can only play 30 minutes a game because he gets in foul trouble early on? And so on. There seems to be one side who believes Cousins giving extra effort on defense is going to hurt the other things he does well. And another side that thinks he should be able to give 100% on defense, and remain the same player everywhere else.

Most of these discussions end up with the side saying he needs to be a defensive "anchor" and giving 100% conceding that they really just want him to play better. The 100% and anchor is just an exaggeration. The other side always says he does need to improve but it would be foolish to expect him to go all out on defense at the expense of his considerably better areas of the game.

I am of the opinion that you don't try to make drastic changes to a star level talent. Doing so risks that they lose what made them special in the first place. Instead you help them improve what they excel at, and try to reduce their vulnerabilities by adding the necessary talent around them. *Cough*Shot blocking sidekick we all want*Cough*

I think we should expect more effort out of him, but that doesn't equate to 100%. If last season he was at 70% then he can increase his effort to 85% without expending so much energy that he can't be 100% on the offensive end.

 

[Npliam]

I would be much more concerned with his offensive efficiency than I would his defense. You simply cannot win in the league with your highest volume shooter (which boogie should be) an inefficient offensive player.

 

[Kingster]

I think we should expect more effort out of him, but that doesn't equate to 100%. If last season he was at 70% then he can increase his effort to 85% without expending so much energy that he can't be 100% on the offensive end.

If Malone is a man of his word, then if Cousins is putting out on defense 85% of the time, he'll be spending 15% of his time on the bench. It sounds pretty close to a zero tolerance policy on lazy defense.

 

[The_Jamal]

Uhh....it is totally unreasonable. There are no offensive stars that gave 100% on defense all game. Jordon, Kobe, Lebron were all great defenders that could shut people down but they mostly guarded a weaker offensive player or let one of the other stars on their team dominate offensively. When the game was on the line and their team needed a stop they would guard the other teams best offensive player but that was only in the last couple minutes of the 4th (and sometimes the 2nd) quarter. As great as those players were (and are int he case of LeBron) they simply cannot play at 100% on both ends of the floor.

You just named 3 of the greatest perimeter defenders of all-time and likely 3 of the hardest working players of all-time. I'm not sure those are the greatest of examples that you could have used.

100% effort doesn't mean in your face/smothering defense. It means never checking out on rotations. Hustling down the court. Being an active leader for your defense. Not committing stupid fouls. And stepping up when your team needs a stop.

I have no delusions about Cousins defensive ability. At his peak, he has the ability to be an above average man/team defender. He will never be a shot blocker.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yea, and we have all discussed this many times on here. It would make for an interesting poll to see what kind of sacrifice people are willing to see on the offense + rebound side of the game in order for Cousins to give 100% on defense every game. If he fouls out 10% of the games because he is trying to block shots and keep big men out is that acceptable? If can only play 30 minutes a game because he gets in foul trouble early on? And so on. There seems to be one side who believes Cousins giving extra effort on defense is going to hurt the other things he does well. And another side that thinks he should be able to give 100% on defense, and remain the same player everywhere else.

Most of these discussions end up with the side saying he needs to be a defensive "anchor" and giving 100% conceding that they really just want him to play better. The 100% and anchor is just an exaggeration. The other side always says he does need to improve but it would be foolish to expect him to go all out on defense at the expense of his considerably better areas of the game.

I am of the opinion that you don't try to make drastic changes to a star level talent. Doing so risks that they lose what made them special in the first place. Instead you help them improve what they excel at, and try to reduce their vulnerabilities by adding the necessary talent around them. *Cough*Shot blocking sidekick we all want*Cough*

People are exaggerating the "all out" and "100% effort" lines. To me, that mean everything I outlined in the last post. Hustling down the court. Not committing stupid fouls. Not being lazy with rotations. I honestly don't think that's too much to expect out of our franchise player? He doesn't need to go try and be Hakeem to become an effective defender. He just needs to put out the effort in the skills he does have (size, positioning, footwork) and make use of those. The whole " he doesn't have to try because he's a star" cop out is exactly that. A cop out.

 

[Padrino]

this argument seems silly to me. to me, it's not entirely about how much effort demarcus cousins is giving on the defensive end, but what kind of effort he's giving on the defensive end. he's not a shot blocker. he shouldn't expend an inordinate amount of energy attempting to block shots, because it will likely result in foul trouble. the same goes for reaching in. he should not be expending an inordinate amount of energy attempting to steal the ball, because it will likely result in foul trouble. these are examples of wasted defensive energy on the part of DMC...

now, as for useful expenditures of energy on the defensive end, he needs to make sure to get back on D in a timely manner. he needs to improve his defensive hustle in the pick and roll. he needs to make better use of his feet in rotation, and how to create trust with his teammates. i'm nervous every single time demarcus takes a charge, foul-prone as he is, but he seems to have a knack for it, so it also strikes me as a useful expenditure of energy, if a risky one. demarcus cousins is never going to be the kings' defensive anchor, but he can be an effective piece of the puzzle if he's focused on doing a few things right...

 

[Kingster]

this argument seems silly to me. to me, it's not entirely about how much effort demarcus cousins is giving on the defensive end, but what kind of effort he's giving on the defensive end. he's not a shot blocker. he shouldn't expend an inordinate amount of energy attempting to block shots, because it will likely result in foul trouble. the same goes for reaching in. he should not be expending an inordinate amount of energy attempting to steal the ball, because it will likely result in foul trouble. these are examples of wasted defensive energy on the part of DMC...

now, as for useful expenditures of energy on the defensive end, he needs to make sure to get back on D in a timely manner. he needs to improve his defensive hustle in the pick and roll. he needs to make better use of his feet in rotation, and how to create trust with his teammates. i'm nervous every single time demarcus takes a charge, foul-prone as he is, but he seems to have a knack for it, so it also strikes me as a useful expenditure of energy, if a risky one. demarcus cousins is never going to be the kings' defensive anchor, but he can be an effective piece of the puzzle if he's focused on doing a few things right...

I think that goes without saying, unless you think Malone is an incompetent who is going to preach to Cousins to waste his defensive energy on useless activities.

 

[spudfan]

People are exaggerating the "all out" and "100% effort" lines. To me, that mean everything I outlined in the last post. Hustling down the court. Not committing stupid fouls. Not being lazy with rotations. I honestly don't think that's too much to expect out of our franchise player? He doesn't need to go try and be Hakeem to become an effective defender. He just needs to put out the effort in the skills he does have (size, positioning, footwork) and make use of those. The whole " he doesn't have to try because he's a star" cop out is exactly that. A cop out.

I often see you getting into discussions that relate to things like this, more so than other posters. Words tend to have a specific meaning and when you substitute your own meanings you muddle the conversations terribly. If you were to use the breakdowns like you just did instead of phrases like "100% effort" I think you'd find people are a lot more agreeable with many of your points.

 

[bajaden]

this argument seems silly to me. to me, it's not entirely about how much effort demarcus cousins is giving on the defensive end, but what kind of effort he's giving on the defensive end. he's not a shot blocker. he shouldn't expend an inordinate amount of energy attempting to block shots, because it will likely result in foul trouble. the same goes for reaching in. he should not be expending an inordinate amount of energy attempting to steal the ball, because it will likely result in foul trouble. these are examples of wasted defensive energy on the part of DMC...

now, as for useful expenditures of energy on the defensive end, he needs to make sure to get back on D in a timely manner. he needs to improve his defensive hustle in the pick and roll. he needs to make better use of his feet in rotation, and how to create trust with his teammates. i'm nervous every single time demarcus takes a charge, foul-prone as he is, but he seems to have a knack for it, so it also strikes me as a useful expenditure of energy, if a risky one. demarcus cousins is never going to be the kings' defensive anchor, but he can be an effective piece of the puzzle if he's focused on doing a few things right...

I think you summed it up quite nicely. In short, he needs to be a good team defender and everything that incorporates. Tim Duncan, who isn't a great leaper or an freak athlete, was third in the league in blocked shots last season, if memory serves. How does he manage to block so many shots without being a jumping jack? Position in the post and technique. Someone was debating how good a defender Parker was, and decided that he's a poor man on man defender, but is a good team defender. Not sure I understand how one can be critical of a player for playing good team defense, especially when your team is winning.

Cousins can be a good defender is he gets back on defense, learns the proper rotations, and executes them, and makes better decisions. The majority of his fouls come from making bad decisions, either out of frustration, or laziness. You can't stop every shot, but you can contest every shot. One thing is for sure, I'd rather shoot an uncontested shot than a contested one. If the opposing player comes into the game shooting 51% from the floor and you make him shoot 48%, you've done your job. If the opposing team comes in shooting 45% from the floor and you as a team make them shoot 42%, you have a good chance of winning that game. I'm not asking Cousins to be great! I'll settle for consistent with good effort, and let the chips fall where they may.

I hope Cousins remembers one thing Malone said to him. If you want to be the leader of this team, that means you have to be the example of playing the game the right way, not just once in a while when you feel like it, but every game, night after night. That takes focus and dedication. Its hard work, just go ask Kobe or Lebron. But its worth it, and the only way to find out that its worth it, is to do it.

 

[Kingster]

I think you summed it up quite nicely. In short, he needs to be a good team defender and everything that incorporates. Tim Duncan, who isn't a great leaper or an freak athlete, was third in the league in blocked shots last season, if memory serves. How does he manage to block so many shots without being a jumping jack? Position in the post and technique. Someone was debating how good a defender Parker was, and decided that he's a poor man on man defender, but is a good team defender. Not sure I understand how one can be critical of a player for playing good team defense, especially when your team is winning.

Cousins can be a good defender is he gets back on defense, learns the proper rotations, and executes them, and makes better decisions. The majority of his fouls come from making bad decisions, either out of frustration, or laziness. You can't stop every shot, but you can contest every shot. One thing is for sure, I'd rather shoot an uncontested shot than a contested one. If the opposing player comes into the game shooting 51% from the floor and you make him shoot 48%, you've done your job. If the opposing team comes in shooting 45% from the floor and you as a team make them shoot 42%, you have a good chance of winning that game. I'm not asking Cousins to be great! I'll settle for consistent with good effort, and let the chips fall where they may.

I hope Cousins remembers one thing Malone said to him. If you want to be the leader of this team, that means you have to be the example of playing the game the right way, not just once in a while when you feel like it, but every game, night after night. That takes focus and dedication. Its hard work, just go ask Kobe or Lebron. But its worth it, and the only way to find out that its worth it, is to do it.

I hadn't heard those comments from Malone. He's saying all the right things. (By definition he's saying the right thing if he says stuff that I've been saying for a while now).

Another interesting comment Malone has made is something to the effect that he isn't naive, that he doesn't expect everything is going to be peaches and cream, and he's going to be ready when problems arise. That tells me that the brain trust of Vivek, DA and Malone has probably had some pretty detailed discussions on contingency plans if Cousins goes off the rails. It's not like they are going to be caught flat footed if Cousins has an "episode".