Boogie to Boston?
- Thread starter BunkoBenny
- Start date
The most likely destination if Boogie were to be traded. He loves playing with IT and I'd think Ainge would be fairly confident he could keep him long-term.
I'd look for something along the lines of Smart, Olynk, the 2016 BK pick and the 2018 BK pick. I'd love Crowder, but I doubt they'll be looking to deal him or IT. Those are the 2 pieces they'd want to put a star around.
I'd look for something along the lines of Smart, Olynk, the 2016 BK pick and the 2018 BK pick. I'd love Crowder, but I doubt they'll be looking to deal him or IT. Those are the 2 pieces they'd want to put a star around.
**** no!!!!
if he gets traded to Boston and Crowder/Bradley arnt on tge way here we burn Golden 1 down.
Plus Boston is looking to add a star before free agency to make a roster for durant or Holford. They rumored to offer Crowder/Bradley for Butler.
Crowder/Bradler is the starting point no and ifs or buts.
if he gets traded to Boston and Crowder/Bradley arnt on tge way here we burn Golden 1 down.
Plus Boston is looking to add a star before free agency to make a roster for durant or Holford. They rumored to offer Crowder/Bradley for Butler.
Crowder/Bradler is the starting point no and ifs or buts.
I don't think the Suns would give that offer. Limited sample size, but in the last 5 games, Booker has gone for 28.4pts 5asts on 48.5% from the field 35.5% from 3pt and 89.2% from FT.
Booker is going to be a special player. I think he has potential to be top 5 SG and he's only 19.
I kind of doubt that the Suns want Cousins which is why it would be hard to try asking for Warren/Len+Booker+1st rounder. If your the Suns, you could have a young exciting core of Bledsoe-Knight-Booker-Warren-Len-lotto pick . You trade Booker+Warren/Len+lotto pick for Cousins.. not great at all if you're looking to be a young rebuilding team.
I also think the Suns are hesitant to give up that much since they just traded away Markieff lol. It's more wishful thinking on my part.
Booker is going to be a special player. I think he has potential to be top 5 SG and he's only 19.
I kind of doubt that the Suns want Cousins which is why it would be hard to try asking for Warren/Len+Booker+1st rounder. If your the Suns, you could have a young exciting core of Bledsoe-Knight-Booker-Warren-Len-lotto pick . You trade Booker+Warren/Len+lotto pick for Cousins.. not great at all if you're looking to be a young rebuilding team.
I also think the Suns are hesitant to give up that much since they just traded away Markieff lol. It's more wishful thinking on my part.
If we do this Boston trade, we will have a very likeable and solid team moving forward. Bradley/Crowder/Smart are great pieces.
But where do we go from there?
We would be a playoff contender in the West with an additional lottery pick (Nets pick). But do we have what it takes to really make a playoff run like this?
Keep in mind, that a big part of the credit for Boston's success goes to Stevens.
So does a roster of solid hard working players without a great basketball mind as the head coach really change anything for the Kings, other than some of us wouldn't be forced to watch Cousins antics?
In my mind the right way moving forward is to try to put players like Bradley and Crowder around Cousins, not giving up Cousins for said players and a pick.
How about trying to find players like this before they break out on other teams and develop them on our own instead of overpaying them in FA or trading star talent for them?
I mean Bradley was drafted 19th in 2010. It took him years to develop into the two way player he is now. Crowder got his minutes reduced to 10 MPG in his last season for the Mavs before being dumped for a half year rental of Rondo.
The question is - why does Boston find those type of players (and you can take Turner, Jerebko, IT into account aswell), why do they rarely overpay for them and why do those players add to their game, while they are in Boston and most importantly why can't the Kings do the same?
Answer: franchise turnmoil, front office competence and coaching competence.....
Let's start there, instead of trying to make impactful trades without any of those attributes.
But where do we go from there?
We would be a playoff contender in the West with an additional lottery pick (Nets pick). But do we have what it takes to really make a playoff run like this?
Keep in mind, that a big part of the credit for Boston's success goes to Stevens.
So does a roster of solid hard working players without a great basketball mind as the head coach really change anything for the Kings, other than some of us wouldn't be forced to watch Cousins antics?
In my mind the right way moving forward is to try to put players like Bradley and Crowder around Cousins, not giving up Cousins for said players and a pick.
How about trying to find players like this before they break out on other teams and develop them on our own instead of overpaying them in FA or trading star talent for them?
I mean Bradley was drafted 19th in 2010. It took him years to develop into the two way player he is now. Crowder got his minutes reduced to 10 MPG in his last season for the Mavs before being dumped for a half year rental of Rondo.
The question is - why does Boston find those type of players (and you can take Turner, Jerebko, IT into account aswell), why do they rarely overpay for them and why do those players add to their game, while they are in Boston and most importantly why can't the Kings do the same?
Answer: franchise turnmoil, front office competence and coaching competence.....
Let's start there, instead of trying to make impactful trades without any of those attributes.
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They won't trade us all three of them, but the negotiations would start with Bostons most valuable assets, which are Bradley, Crowder and Smart alongside their draft picks.
And no matter which package they would hypothetically send back to get DMC, they wouldn't turn into the 2012 Kings, because I would assume, that Brad Stevens is superior than Keith Smart and their complimentary pieces are a lot better.
But you are right - Boston is a surefire playoff team in the East. Why should they deplete their roster to get Cuz? Fine with me - I prefer a successful Kings team around our big guy over a Celtics team with IT and Cuz.
But you can coun't on it, if Cuz gets traded to the Celts I will be watching a lot of Celtics basketball.
And no matter which package they would hypothetically send back to get DMC, they wouldn't turn into the 2012 Kings, because I would assume, that Brad Stevens is superior than Keith Smart and their complimentary pieces are a lot better.
But you are right - Boston is a surefire playoff team in the East. Why should they deplete their roster to get Cuz? Fine with me - I prefer a successful Kings team around our big guy over a Celtics team with IT and Cuz.
But you can coun't on it, if Cuz gets traded to the Celts I will be watching a lot of Celtics basketball.
They won't trade us all three of them, but the negotiations would start with Bostons most valuable assets, which are Bradley, Crowder and Smart alongside their draft picks.
And no matter which package they would hypothetically send back to get DMC, they wouldn't turn into the 2012 Kings, because I would assume, that Brad Stevens is superior than Keith Smart and their complimentary pieces are a lot better.
But you are right - Boston is a surefire playoff team in the East. Why should they deplete their roster to get Cuz? Fine with me - I prefer a successful Kings team around our big guy over a Celtics team with IT and Cuz.
But you can coun't on it, if Cuz gets traded to the Celts I will be watching a lot of Celtics basketball.
And no matter which package they would hypothetically send back to get DMC, they wouldn't turn into the 2012 Kings, because I would assume, that Brad Stevens is superior than Keith Smart and their complimentary pieces are a lot better.
But you are right - Boston is a surefire playoff team in the East. Why should they deplete their roster to get Cuz? Fine with me - I prefer a successful Kings team around our big guy over a Celtics team with IT and Cuz.
But you can coun't on it, if Cuz gets traded to the Celts I will be watching a lot of Celtics basketball.
Assuming Karl is fired it will mean that after three years and three head coaches, the GM finally gets to conduct a coaching search and hire who he wants.
I think it makes sense to give Cousins, Vlade and the new coach one season before blowing this thing apart completely.
The hard part for me is that giving that one season also likely requires signing Rondo to a big money FA deal and I'm not sure he'd be all that easy to move if the team does decide to rebuild.
But if we want to play this game (which is more fun than watching Kings games any more) I can take a look at what a Boston trade might result in. Let's say Boston ends up with a top 2 pick courtesy of Brooklyn's first rounder. Trading Cousins for Bradley, Sullinger, the Net's pick and one of Boston's other two first rounders (either their own or Dallas') would mean the Kings have a top 2 pick, a top 10 pick (their own) and another pick in the early 20's or so.
Rondo and the Kings would mutually part ways in this scenario (Rajon doesn't need to be a part of another rebuilding team and the Kings don't need to spend a ton of caproom on a nearly 30 year old PG), Gay would likely be dealt and at least one of McLemore and Belinelli would likely go as well. Let's say Belinelli goes for a future 2nd rounder. Then the roster is:
Collison
Bradley/McLemore
Gay/Casspi
Sullinger
Cauley-Stein/Koufos
With a top two pick the Kings would end up with one of Simmons or Ingram. With their own pick (depending on how poorly the Kings finish the season will likely be in the 7-9 range) the Kings will probably be looking at guys like Buddy Hield, Skal Labissiere or maybe Kris Dunn who should go higher but may drop because of all the lottery teams with PGs. The later pick would be a crapshoot. I think Wade Baldwin (who I like) will move up draft boards so the guys I like later in this draft are Caris Levert (who is slotted 24-32 or so in most mocks but should be higher IMO) and Ivica Zubac, the young center.
Let's say the Kings end up with Ingram, Dunn and Levert, they resign Curry and Acy, do a sign and trade of Rudy for Ryan Anderson, sign a free agent or two and roll the ball out next season
Collison/Dunn/Curry
Bradley/McLemore/Levert
Casspi/Ingram/FA
Sullinger/Anderson/Acy
Cauley-Stein/Koufos/FA
That roster would probably lose a lot of games next season. The hope would be that Dunn and Ingram (or Simmons and Labissiere etc) would develop enough to make the Kings winners again. But it's a big gamble. I don't see any sure things in this year's draft. Simmons is more a poor man's Magic Johnson than LeBron James-lite but unless he fixes his shot he's not going to be a great player. Ingram doesn't do any one spectacularly and his success will also hinge on getting bigger and stronger and finishing better at the rim.
If you want to roll the dice by dealing Cousins to start a full rebuild, that's the level of roster you'd be left with. In fact, I think it's a really optimistic view of what the Kings could have after trading Cousins.
I understand we're all tired of watching a terrible Kings team lose night after night, but dealing Cousins for picks is at least a big a gamble as trying to retool around him.
I think it makes sense to give Cousins, Vlade and the new coach one season before blowing this thing apart completely.
The hard part for me is that giving that one season also likely requires signing Rondo to a big money FA deal and I'm not sure he'd be all that easy to move if the team does decide to rebuild.
But if we want to play this game (which is more fun than watching Kings games any more) I can take a look at what a Boston trade might result in. Let's say Boston ends up with a top 2 pick courtesy of Brooklyn's first rounder. Trading Cousins for Bradley, Sullinger, the Net's pick and one of Boston's other two first rounders (either their own or Dallas') would mean the Kings have a top 2 pick, a top 10 pick (their own) and another pick in the early 20's or so.
Rondo and the Kings would mutually part ways in this scenario (Rajon doesn't need to be a part of another rebuilding team and the Kings don't need to spend a ton of caproom on a nearly 30 year old PG), Gay would likely be dealt and at least one of McLemore and Belinelli would likely go as well. Let's say Belinelli goes for a future 2nd rounder. Then the roster is:
Collison
Bradley/McLemore
Gay/Casspi
Sullinger
Cauley-Stein/Koufos
With a top two pick the Kings would end up with one of Simmons or Ingram. With their own pick (depending on how poorly the Kings finish the season will likely be in the 7-9 range) the Kings will probably be looking at guys like Buddy Hield, Skal Labissiere or maybe Kris Dunn who should go higher but may drop because of all the lottery teams with PGs. The later pick would be a crapshoot. I think Wade Baldwin (who I like) will move up draft boards so the guys I like later in this draft are Caris Levert (who is slotted 24-32 or so in most mocks but should be higher IMO) and Ivica Zubac, the young center.
Let's say the Kings end up with Ingram, Dunn and Levert, they resign Curry and Acy, do a sign and trade of Rudy for Ryan Anderson, sign a free agent or two and roll the ball out next season
Collison/Dunn/Curry
Bradley/McLemore/Levert
Casspi/Ingram/FA
Sullinger/Anderson/Acy
Cauley-Stein/Koufos/FA
That roster would probably lose a lot of games next season. The hope would be that Dunn and Ingram (or Simmons and Labissiere etc) would develop enough to make the Kings winners again. But it's a big gamble. I don't see any sure things in this year's draft. Simmons is more a poor man's Magic Johnson than LeBron James-lite but unless he fixes his shot he's not going to be a great player. Ingram doesn't do any one spectacularly and his success will also hinge on getting bigger and stronger and finishing better at the rim.
If you want to roll the dice by dealing Cousins to start a full rebuild, that's the level of roster you'd be left with. In fact, I think it's a really optimistic view of what the Kings could have after trading Cousins.
I understand we're all tired of watching a terrible Kings team lose night after night, but dealing Cousins for picks is at least a big a gamble as trying to retool around him.
We bring Marcus Smart onto this team, and I'm done! Period, end of discussion. If Boston isn't willing to deal Crowder or It, then they aren't serious. I'm not trading the best center in the NBA, and arguably a top five player in the NBA for a PG that is a trouble maker, and can't shoot a pea into the ocean, and a backup center/PF.
Sure, but that will be known by the time teams are able to make trades. The draft lottery happens during the playoffs (during the Conference Finals I think) and it will be a few weeks after that where teams are actually able to make trades.
IF Boogie were traded this offseason (and I really, really doubt he will be) the Kings would know exactly what draft slots (at least for 2016 draft picks) they'd be getting back.
IF Boogie were traded this offseason (and I really, really doubt he will be) the Kings would know exactly what draft slots (at least for 2016 draft picks) they'd be getting back.
If we could end up with everything you described, I would be pretty happy. I agree that it will take some time for all the pieces to jell, but it would be a much better defensive team. Ingram reminds me of a young Rudy Gay at times, and at this point in his career, shows better ability from the three. Sullinger becomes your catch all player. He can play both PF and Center, but like Cousins, he's not a run and gun type player. I think Dunn has the potential to be a good player on both sides of the court, and can play some SG if needed. I've been a fan of Andersons since his days at Cal. Now if you can figure out a way to turn Levert and McLemore into Buddy Hield, I'll be even happier.
The reason I like Hield better than Levert, is that Levert has struggled with injuries and I'm afraid it might be a recurring problem. Plus, I've watched both guys play a lot, and Hield is a more aggressive player, and at least to me, appears to be a smarter player on the court. But I'm nit picking, and I do like Levert. I just like Hield better.
My starting lineup out of that group would be Cauley-Stein at center, Anderson at PF, Casspi at SF, Bradley at SG, and Collison at PG. I like Anderson on the floor with Willie so the post doesn't get crowded. Which is what would happen with Sullinger on the floor.
The reason I like Hield better than Levert, is that Levert has struggled with injuries and I'm afraid it might be a recurring problem. Plus, I've watched both guys play a lot, and Hield is a more aggressive player, and at least to me, appears to be a smarter player on the court. But I'm nit picking, and I do like Levert. I just like Hield better.
My starting lineup out of that group would be Cauley-Stein at center, Anderson at PF, Casspi at SF, Bradley at SG, and Collison at PG. I like Anderson on the floor with Willie so the post doesn't get crowded. Which is what would happen with Sullinger on the floor.
Hield is better than Levert, though I like Levert's length defensively. He's not a sexy prospect but if he can stay healthy he's a nice 3&D prospect who adds some ballhandling and passing. I liken him to a poor man's Doug Christie.
Anderson as a starter makes more sense. And would probably appeal to him more in terms of convincing him to sign. Sullinger is a throw in in my scenario, likely to be allowed to leave as a free agent after next season.
But we have no idea what Boston (or another team) might offer, where the draft picks might fall or which players will be available. But the team COULD rebuild by trading Cousins if they wanted. It's a huge gamble, especially in a relatively weak draft, and I'd rather see them build around him but it's there as an option. No matter what happens, I certainly hope whatever Kings team takes the floor next season defends better, moves the ball more, plays with more fire/hustle/energy and preferably has more outside shooting. This season has been draining. Not just because of the losing but because of the high expectations I had and maybe even more so because of the WAY they've lost.
Anderson as a starter makes more sense. And would probably appeal to him more in terms of convincing him to sign. Sullinger is a throw in in my scenario, likely to be allowed to leave as a free agent after next season.
But we have no idea what Boston (or another team) might offer, where the draft picks might fall or which players will be available. But the team COULD rebuild by trading Cousins if they wanted. It's a huge gamble, especially in a relatively weak draft, and I'd rather see them build around him but it's there as an option. No matter what happens, I certainly hope whatever Kings team takes the floor next season defends better, moves the ball more, plays with more fire/hustle/energy and preferably has more outside shooting. This season has been draining. Not just because of the losing but because of the high expectations I had and maybe even more so because of the WAY they've lost.
I share your disappointment, although my expectations may not have been as high as yours. I had a hard time seeing a team that couldn't win more than 29 games over the last five or six year suddenly becoming a playoff team. However, when many of the teams that were supposed to be shue in's for the playoffs started falling by the wayside, I thought just maybe we'd pull it off. The season got off to a bad start during summer league, when there seemed to be more interest in the conflict between Cousins and Karl than the summer league team. Blame whoever you want, but I doubt there was ever good chemistry between Cousins and Karl. Both seemed to be going through the motions of what getting along looks like.
That's not a good way to start a season, and I think some of Cousins tantrums have to do with him suppressing how he really feels. That's not an excuse for Cousins actions, just an explanation. Like you, my first choice is to rebuild, or whatever you want to call it, around Cousins. That said, Karl has to go, and I want to believe that his leaving is a given, but you never know for sure. I can't see Cousins and Karl co-existing on the same team. That means Karl needs to be replaced by a coach that's more flexable and creative. If we were to go for a young coach, I'd like someone like Shaka Smart. A coach whose teams tend to overachieve. It should be an interesting summer...
That's not a good way to start a season, and I think some of Cousins tantrums have to do with him suppressing how he really feels. That's not an excuse for Cousins actions, just an explanation. Like you, my first choice is to rebuild, or whatever you want to call it, around Cousins. That said, Karl has to go, and I want to believe that his leaving is a given, but you never know for sure. I can't see Cousins and Karl co-existing on the same team. That means Karl needs to be replaced by a coach that's more flexable and creative. If we were to go for a young coach, I'd like someone like Shaka Smart. A coach whose teams tend to overachieve. It should be an interesting summer...