Boogie and that All Star slot

Bosnian Diehard · Nov 16, 2013

If this entire board votes once a day, plus a lot votes from India, and other Kings fans and NBA fans who think he should start, he could challenge for the starting spot. It isn't unrealistic, seeing as Dwight has a lot of haters across the NBA among fans, so he could lose plenty of votes (from Lakers fans, Magic fans, etc.).

mac · Nov 16, 2013

Tetsujin said:

Of course, there's also the issue that he isn't playing 36mpg while the others are. And I'm not quite ready to say it's just a matter of Malone playing him more. Cousins does get fatigued, he does pick up lots of fouls at times. I maintain that if he gets snubbed, it'll be because there are a bunch of other big men playing pretty darn well themselves, and team record will then play a part in deciding who gets the cut. But you and everyone else is right - to put up those stats and get snubbed on any given year would be ridiculous... only this year there are a bunch of others putting up stats in the same ball park.

Glenn · Nov 16, 2013

mac said:

Probably right. I think the fact that the game was on ESPN and the announcing crew almost single handedly were trying to resurrect Cousins' rep was great and will help. They also pointed out the skills he has that other people don't have. The camera was on him a lot. It was almost like they were looking for a scowl and never found one. Heck, Detroit whined more.

I'd like him to make it but I think I am being honest with myself by saying I am feeling very good about has advances this year and need nothing more at the moment. He is under control and seems to be taking more interest in shot blocking. At his length, he should scare a few people and although I know he is huge and not a great leaper, with his height and wing span, he should be able to block shots. He finally is. Bravo, Cuz and Malone.

Tetsujin · Nov 17, 2013

Been looking into some numbers. It's amazing how many big men have made the all-star game despite absolutely horrendous numbers on the defensive end.

Also, in the '87-'88 season, James Donaldson made the game despite having one of the most pedestrian season statlines anyone over 6'8" could possibly muster:
31.1 mpg, 7 ppg, 9.3 rpg, .8 apg, .5 spg, 1.3 bpg

As a comparison, here are Jason Thompson's stats from his second (and statistically best) season in the league:
Jason Thompson: 31.4 mpg, 12.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.7 apg, .5 spg, 1 bpg

In other words, I could make a favorable case for an argument that Jason Thompson has been better than an NBA All Star.

Ridiculous.

Are there any old timers on the board who could possibly enlighten me as to how Donaldson somehow wound up playing in an ASG featuring Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Kevin McHale, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Brad Daugherty. and Moses Malone as the other big men? Did he have compromising pictures of David Stern or something?

sdballer · Nov 17, 2013

Tetsujin said:

Been looking into some numbers. It's amazing how many big men have made the all-star game despite absolutely horrendous numbers on the defensive end.

Also, in the '87-'88 season, James Donaldson made the game despite having among the most pedestrian season statlines anyone over 6'8" could possibly muster:
31.1 mpg, 7 ppg, 9.3 rpg, .8 apg, .5 spg, 1.3 bpg

As a comparison, here are Jason Thompson's stats from his second (and statistically best) season in the league:
Jason Thompson: 31.4 mpg, 12.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.7 apg, .5 spg, 1 bpg

In other words, I could make a favorable case for an angument that Jason Thompson has been better than an NBA All Star.

Ridiculous.

Are there any old timers on the board who could possibly enlighten me as to how Donaldson somehow wound up playing in an ASG featuring Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Kevin McHale, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Brad Daugherty. and Moses Malone as the other big men? Did he have compromising pictures of David Stern or something?

He was a replacement for an equally crappy allstar in Steve Johnson. Basically, they really wanted another center and the only other option (who they should have picked) was mark eaton.

Chubbs · Nov 17, 2013

Tetsujin said:

You do have to keep in mind AD has the potential to be one of the top defenders in NBA history. 8 blocks last night.

Glenn said:

Big cuz was on his best behavior. No doubt about that. Curious if that continues when the cameras go away and he's left playing in front of mostly the members of this board the rest of the season.

The Hammer · Nov 17, 2013

Tetsujin said:

Well, I think that people don't realize is how absolutely start studded the league was back then. You're talking just prior to/including the dream team era. There was simply just major drop in talent (especially in big men, who are more rare anyway) after the names you mentioned. I agree that I think Eaton should have made it.

And when I say start studded I mean highly skilled stars. The league now does have stars of course, but there are more athletic freak stars, as the league in general has moved more towards freakish athleticism. There were just less freakish athletes back then and more incredibly skilled stars, with a major drop off in talent level outside of the elites. Even Magic wasn't that great an athlete. Tall, yes, but skilled beyond belief. The game in general doesn't foster that kind skill anymore, because overall there are just so many competent amazing athletes. That's one reason why we're all so excited about Cuz. It's his skill talent more than his athletic talent that is so jaw dropping. There may never be another Kevin McHale.

King Baller · Nov 17, 2013

Tetsujin said:

Well I did not watch him play much, so I looked up the Wiki on James Donaldson. Here are some interesting points:
1) He played High School ball at Luther Burbank in Sacramento.
2) He played 20 years of pro ball. 15 in the NBA and 5 in Europe.
3) He is number 49 on the NBA all time blocked shots leaders.
4) During the 1984–85 NBA season, he led the league in field goal percentage at 0.637 — still one of the ten highest percentages in NBA history.
5) Donaldson joined the Dallas Mavericks in 1985. He had his finest years while playing for the Mavericks, providing rebounding and shot-blocking to complement Dallas' star-studded line-up, which included Mark Aguirre, Rolando Blackman, Roy Tarpley, Derek Harper, and Brad Davis. Donaldson himself earned a spot on the 1988 All-Star Team during a season in which the Mavericks reached the Western Conference Finals before losing to the Los Angeles Lakers.
6) Donaldson, a 7'2" center, starred at Luther Burbank High School and Washington State University in the late 1970s before being drafted by the Seattle SuperSonics in 1979. However, he spent his first professional season abroad, with the Italian Serie A's 3A Antonini Siena.

I wonder if James can still play? Sounds like just what the Kings need

King Baller · Nov 17, 2013

More on James Donaldson:

Bricklayer · Nov 17, 2013

Haha! Highlight clips of James Donaldson!

Donaldson is hard to compare to any of today's centers because he was a lumbering beast. Maybe would have been like a Brendan Haywood or a bigger Erick Dampier. A big lumbering roadblock on the boards and blocks, and never expected to do more. I guess in that way like so many of today's supposed top centers. There was never even a thought that James Donaldson was going to beat you. He was just out there to try to slow down your center and make sure that your center did not beat THEM.

And yes, he was one of several prominent Sacramento era players of that era. J.D. Bill Cartwright. Later Kevin Johnson. Now I think all you've got is Matt Barnes.

Glenn · Nov 17, 2013

King Baller said:

Sounds good to me.

Showtime · Nov 18, 2013

Davis is balling and the Pelicans will be in the playoff hunt. I can't see Cousins earning a spot with Davis, Love, Howard, etc in the west.

Glenn · Nov 18, 2013

If Cousins spends more time on the bench because the coach is "sending a message," people may assume he is the problem. At the least his stats will drop.

Tetsujin · Nov 18, 2013

Showtime said:

well it's that etc. part that really matters in the Cuz debate. There's probably two or three spots left for big men on the West roster with Cousins, Aldridge, Griffin, Lee, Dirk, Gasol, and others all candidates for them.

King Baller · Nov 18, 2013

Bricklayer said:

Haha! Highlight clips of James Donaldson!

Donaldson is hard to compare to any of today's centers because he was a lumbering beast. Maybe would have been like a Brendan Haywood or a bigger Erick Dampier. A big lumbering roadblock on the boards and blocks, and never expected to do more. I guess in that way like so many of today's supposed top centers. There was never even a thought that James Donaldson was going to beat you. He was just out there to try to slow down your center and make sure that your center did not beat THEM.

And yes, he was one of several prominent Sacramento era players of that era. J.D. Bill Cartwright. Later Kevin Johnson. Now I think all you've got is Matt Barnes.

There is also Tyreke's running mate Ryan Anderson

Bricklayer · Nov 18, 2013

Tetsujin said:

Might help is his own coach quits benching him for entire halves.

And if Portland doesn't quit playing so far over their heads, Aldridge is going to be a serious threat and really really put the squeeze on given our team's likely pathetic record.

KingMilz · Nov 18, 2013

Bricklayer said:

What would help the most is he puts away the mid range jumper and gets to his good spots on the floor rather than taking long 2's which he's shooting at a woeful% he's shooting like 64% in the paint and outside of it it's scary bad. The difference between elite players is they catch the ball and go to there sweet spots Cousins does not do that enough at this point in time. His rotations on defense last game were non existant as well that's why he was rightfully benched.

The Grizzles also have seemed to be finding there groove now so add Z-Bo as another one who could be in like for another go for the ASG.

mac · Nov 18, 2013

andremiller07 said:

What would help the most is he puts away the mid range jumper and gets to his good spots on the floor rather than taking long 2's which he's shooting at a woeful% he's shooting like 64% in the paint and outside of it it's scary bad. The difference between elite players is they catch the ball and go to there sweet spots Cousins does not do that enough at this point in time. His rotations on defense last game were non existant as well that's why he was rightfully benched.

The Grizzles also have seemed to be finding there groove now so add Z-Bo as another one who could be in like for another go for the ASG.

Beat me to it

Bricklayer · Nov 18, 2013

andremiller07 said:

Indeed, 106 of his 162 shots this season have come from within 5ft of the hoop, that's about 65% of them. But he sure is gunning it up from outside.

Too bad he doesn't play a power game like his All Star competitors like Anthony Davis (92-157 within 5ft), LaMarcus Aldridge (66-222), Blake Grifftih (116-180), Kevin Love (84-204), or David Lee (106-142).

P.S. Zach is still averaging about 15 and 8-9. He has some work to do to get into the conversation, beyond the impossible to predict good team gets guy even if he's not that great thing. On that front Dirk might be more dangerous as he's had a few pretty good games of late, and he's Dirk, and therefore entitled to special career long All Star passes even if he grabs fewer rebounds than your PG.

KingMilz · Nov 18, 2013

Bricklayer said:

Every single one of those guys has a better mid range J than him by a wide margin except for Griffin who has not been to bad and the difference between Cousins and all those guys taking middies is they all have big good offensive rebounders to give them 2nd chances, when DMC takes those shots they are magnified since it takes his away from the the offensive glass as well (which he's really really good on) and our 2nd chance points go down cause of it. Leave the mid ranges shots to Patterson/Thompson/LMAM better off staying in the paint useing his exceptional hands and fighting for boards and drawing fouls.

Him doing those things will help the team more rather than attemtping mid range jumpers until he's either worked to sufficently improve his stroke or if the shot clock is about to run out. Again I'm just saying this cause he's the franchise guy so he's got to be held to a high standard. I don't get why people are shocked why he was benched last game either his effort was not what it's been 90% of the time this season.

Bricklayer · Nov 19, 2013

andremiller07 said:

I was shocked. Our starting lineup, intact, had the game at 16-18 before fouls took JT and Cuz out of the game. They got 4 more minutes together before it was time to throw mini chuckers on the court and let em chuck, apparently as a lesson on how to play. Well hell, Keith Smart taught that same lesson last year. Maybe we need him back. Run! Chuck! Lose! Woohoo!

1) NO franchise player except for Shaq has ever been able to eschew facing jumpers. Well, except for Kareem. but you know what? Kareem just moved his hook out to the 18-20 foot area for the same effect. But no big man except for Shaq has ever been physically dominant enough to overpower anybody and any combination of opponents at the rim every time down the floor. Does not happen. Ever. And you want to bring up Dwight, and I will point out to you that you are proving my point. Dwight is limited, and hence easy to stop. Even by Andrea Bargnani.

2) Boogie's teammates suck. They sucked especially hard about the time he ended up getting benched yesterday. Result? He's shaded. He's doubled. Sometimes he's tripled. Oh BTW, you may or may not have noticed the considerably larger Defensive Player of the Year standing on the other side waiting for him inside?

3) End result is teams with huge post defenders and help coming chase Boogie out of the interior. And they should. He is not a great post player. He's becoming a pretty good one. But Marc Gasol post defense, with help >> Boogie's post offense with Team Brick providing spacing. You are advocating DeMarcus play it stupid. Cousins is a revolutionary player not because he is the best post player I have ever seen. He is revolutionary because he's the best player of his bulk I have ever seen with the ball on the move. Guys his size have never been that fluid before. Never had handles like that. You ask him just to dumbfire down into the post, no matter the opponent, no matter how swarmed he is because gee, John Salmons doesn't seem to be scaring people with his shooting, well he flat gets beat. And so do we. And BTW that would be true of any of the above players as well. They all depend on the ability to escape interior pressure and mix it up.

KingMilz · Nov 19, 2013

Bricklayer said:

So why not instead of firing up jumpers does he not use that handle to get into the paint more often to try draw fouls or even better kick it out when everyone collapses on him, I don't mind what DMC does on the court as long as he stops taking long 2's, drive in kick it out and get into a rebounding position I just want him to attack the rim relentlessly until he develops a jumper or he finds 1 spot where he can knock down a high %. I'm not saying he should just post up but if your a elite offensive rebounder like he imo is when he puts his mind to it why not do that more it's easy points and there is no shortage of players who brick on the squad. Him floating on the perimeter when shots go up is not helping anyone.

Cousins sadly enough could also be the 2nd best drive and kick guy on the team, do that and cut the jumpers in half and position yourself for rebounds.

Chubbs · Nov 19, 2013

Bricklayer said:

At this point, Aldridge makes it over cuz. Records matter. Cousins numbers will have to be insane to make the team if our record continues as it is.

Bosnian Diehard · Nov 19, 2013

Why do records matter when choosing the best players?

mac · Nov 19, 2013

Bosnian Diehard said:

Because best players should be helping their teams to win? Obviously you're not going take a 12-8 guy on a winning team over a 22-10 on a losing one, but if they're in the same ballpark the nod easily goes to the one on the winning team.

flamecrow · Nov 19, 2013

so do we text "Cousins" to 69622, every day? Should we also text in for IT and Grievez or does that lower DMC's chances?

VF21 · Nov 19, 2013

flamecrow said:

It's okay to vote for IT and Greivis. Just don't vote for any other player for the frontcourt positions.

swisshh · Nov 20, 2013

I think Cousins is facing three barriers to being an all-star.

1. The team losing.
2. Coaches who hold grudges for what happened with Westphal.
3. People who base everything on advanced stats because they know more about anime than they do real basketball.

Cousins is not a shiny piece of advanced stats. You have to watch him to understand why he's valuable. There is no stat for the fact he takes up three guys on the glass. Stats don't differentiate between beating an entire frontline down on the block versus getting an easy gimme dunk on an wide open look.

HereWeBoogie · Nov 21, 2013

Cousins needs to keep his effort level up and his fouls down so he can stay on the court a consistant 36-38 mpg. no more of these 15-20 min games like the 2 or 3 hes already had this year.

because his per 36min averages so far this season are 26pts and 12reb!!! but he is only averaging 21.8ppg and 9.6rpg because of his low minutes

Chubbs · Nov 21, 2013

Bosnian Diehard said:

Is that a joke?

Boogie and that All Star slot

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KingMilz

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KingMilz

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KingMilz

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