Bill Simmons of ESPN?

[burekijogurt]

Or Bricklayer of KingsFans message boards?

"Before we continue, let's bid adieu to the following players from last year's Top 40 who couldn't crack this year's list for the following reasons: Lamar Odom (No. 22 last year) had a "Maybe I should just fail another drug test so I don't have to play with Kobe anymore" look on his face from January on … Peja Stojakovic (31) has been exposed in the Post-Divac/Webber Era as someone who can't make his teammates better or create his own shot, as well as someone who may or may not have a pulse … Nene (37) might need to go back to using his last name … Carlos Boozer (38) had a promising career derailed by bad judgment (leaving LeBron) and suffocatingly bad karma (from stabbing a benevolent blind millionaire in the back) … and Joe Dumars has definitely passed the "If I trade him now, everyone will know I screwed up" point with Darko Milicic (40)."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050701

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh, I've mentioned before that its not as if I stand alone in my assessment. I think the Kings management and a few hardcore fans are the last true believers. That said, since Bill's job is to professionally rip on anybody he can get his grimey little mitts on, he's hardly gospel. Just restating a widely helpd opinion.

 

[jeffjcalweb]

bill simmons number one job is to make sports funny .... which he does a great job of doing. i wouldn't think it fair of anyone to try and judge his articles as an "expert" analysis. he basically writes a column like any fan of any sport would, it doesn't have to make sense or follow a salary cap. i personally find his work damn funny and quite original. and no, i'm not related/his mother/his boss, etc.

 

[Gargamel]

So what you're saying Jeff is that BSPN is full of that kind of quasi-entertainment garbage? I agree.

I'll bet Carlos Boozer would spit his Pepsi in Simmons' face if he told him he made a mistake in taking 70 million from Utah. Not only that, Cleveland is one of the few NBA cities which actually makes Salt Lake City seem acceptable to a free agent. Post script: why is leaving Bron such a travesty if Bron can't make it to the playoffs WITHOUT Boozer? I don't think BSPN is ever going to figure out that Bron is not the second coming of MJ or Magic.

 

[Bricklayer]

So what you're saying Jeff is that BSPN is full of that kind of quasi-entertainment garbage? I agree.

I'll bet Carlos Boozer would spit his Pepsi in Simmons' face if he told him he made a mistake in taking 70 million from Utah. Not only that, Cleveland is one of the few NBA cities which actually makes Salt Lake City seem acceptable to a free agent. Post script: why is leaving Bron such a travesty if Bron can't make it to the playoffs WITHOUT Boozer? I don't think BSPN is ever going to figure out that Bron is not the second coming of MJ or Magic.

I stil think you are in complete denial with LeBron. Gee, maybe because the kid is 20 and arguably better than ANYONE in the history of the game at that age? Magic always had a 7'2" crutch when he was young. MJ missed the playoffs himself when Charles Oakley was his wingman. Put three years on LeBron, and barring injuries he's headed toward a date with history.

And yes, what Boozer did was completely slimy. So much money that its obvious how/why it happened, but despicable nonetheless. No honor there.

 

[Nikos]

Bron is probably already as good as Magic in his 2nd/3rd seasons. At least in rank relationship to the rest of the league. Both are/were statistically Top 5-8.

Lebron is very comparable to Magic in terms of impact in the NBA at his age. If he makes small leaps each year he will basically be in Michael Jordan territory. Surround him with good role players, and he likely will put his team in title contention for the next Decade+.

 

[hoopsfan]

"Bron is probably already as good as Magic in his 2nd/3rd seasons."

??? Did LeBron lead his team in the championship clinching game as a rookie, play every position and record 42/15/7, with Kareem sitting at home??? (vs. Sixer team with Dr. J, Darryl Dawkins, et al. AT Philly)

 

[Bricklayer]

"Bron is probably already as good as Magic in his 2nd/3rd seasons."

??? Did LeBron lead his team in the championship clinching game as a rookie, play every position and record 42/15/7, with Kareem sitting at home???

Did Magic enter the game straight out of high school, or are all rookies the same?

Let's see:

Magic age 20: 18.0pts 7.7reb 7.3ast
LeBron age 20: 27.2pts 7.4reb 7.2ast

Maybe, just maybe, if LeBron had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar rather than Big Z, Jamaal Wilkes rather than Drew Gooden, and Norm Nixon rather than Jeff McInnis we could have seen how his Game 7 performance would have measured up.

 

[Gargamel]

Maybe, just maybe, if LeBron had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar rather than Big Z, Jamaal Wilkes rather than Drew Gooden, and Norm Nixon rather than Jeff McInnis we could have seen how his Game 7 performance would have measured up.

Magic didn't have Kareem in his Gm6 performance either.

42/15/7, overshadowed a legend (Dr. J) in the process.

 

[Gargamel]

I stil think you are in complete denial with LeBron. Gee, maybe because the kid is 20 and arguably better than ANYONE in the history of the game at that age? Magic always had a 7'2" crutch when he was young. MJ missed the playoffs himself when Charles Oakley was his wingman. Put three years on LeBron, and barring injuries he's headed toward a date with history.

I'll be a fool and take Magic or Jordan over LeBron at their respective ages then.

And yes, what Boozer did was completely slimy. So much money that its obvious how/why it happened, but despicable nonetheless. No honor there.

Bidness. This time the player gypped the team instead of the other way around.

 

[Bricklayer]

Bidness. This time the player gypped the team instead of the other way around.

No not bidness. Or actually I suspose it is "bidness" as its conducted by street punks with no real idea of the concept. In the real "bidness" world the only thing you always have is your reputation. In the real "bidness" world, you pulled something like this you would probably end up being sued (you induced reasonable reliance on an oral promise to the detriment of the other party). And as it is, nobody will ever trust Boozer or his agent's word in the NBA again. Nor should they.

 

[Gargamel]

No not bidness. Or actually I suspose it is "bidness" as its conducted by street punks with no real idea of the concept. In the real "bidness" world the only thing you always have is your reputation. In the real "bidness" world, you pulled something like this you would probably end up being sued (you induced reasonable reliance on an oral promise to the detriment of the other party). And as it is, nobody will ever trust Boozer or his agent's word in the NBA again. Nor should they.

C-Webb still trusts Pelinka.

C'mon, don't tell me you don't feel good for parity's sake that the Jazz were able to land a free agent of his caliber... I never though that would happen after Karl/Johnny retired.

 

[funkykingston]

Unlesss I'm mistaken, Boozer's agent stopped representing him soon after the details of the whole ordeal became public.

 

[iheartBrad]

Or Bricklayer of KingsFans message boards?

"Before we continue, let's bid adieu to the following players from last year's Top 40 who couldn't crack this year's list for the following reasons: Lamar Odom (No. 22 last year) had a "Maybe I should just fail another drug test so I don't have to play with Kobe anymore" look on his face from January on … Peja Stojakovic (31) has been exposed in the Post-Divac/Webber Era as someone who can't make his teammates better or create his own shot, as well as someone who may or may not have a pulse … Nene (37) might need to go back to using his last name … Carlos Boozer (38) had a promising career derailed by bad judgment (leaving LeBron) and suffocatingly bad karma (from stabbing a benevolent blind millionaire in the back) … and Joe Dumars has definitely passed the "If I trade him now, everyone will know I screwed up" point with Darko Milicic (40)."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050701

First off, ^thats hilarious and secondly I agree with Brick some people are very much in denial about Lebron...wake up and smell the coffee people...he is the real deal...believe the hype

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Why should we?

 

[sloter]

Well, how many players can you compare him to at his position ? Maybe Kobe and T-Mac, and that's it, and I'd take him over both of those players because he is more team oriented and a smarter player.

 

[Gargamel]

Well, how many players can you compare him to at his position ? Maybe Kobe and T-Mac, and that's it, and I'd take him over both of those players because he is more team oriented and a smarter player.

If his rep is based on how his team performs because of him, then he has a chink in the armor already. Why did the Cavs spin out of control at the end of the season and lose out to the Wizards or whoever? BSPN sez it was in spite of Bron. I guess that means that he benefits the Cavs when they play well and he is absolved from blame when they don't.

 

[VF21]

Why did the Cavs spin out of control at the end of the season? Could it perhaps be because the new owner decided he needed to switch horses in mid stream, firing the coach that had gotten them into contention in the first place?

 

[hrdboild]

He's played two years in the league. I think the "so when are you going to carry your team to the playoffs?" talk can be put on hold at least until his rookie contract is up. The guy's not even 21 years old yet.

 

[Bricklayer]

There is no argument here Gargamel. There really is none. Criticizing a 20 yr old kid putting up historic numbers for not taking one of the least talented teams in the league (sans him) to the playoffs is just silly. Its a real reach, and to break out a term not normally in my lexicon, pretty much just "playa hating". I don't know if there are 5 players in the league who take that Cavs supporting cast to the playoffs (there may, in fact, not be any). And I can virtually guarantee there are exactly zero guys in the league who could have done it at 20. Ira Newble, Tractor Traylor, Luscious Harris, oh my.

 

[funkykingston]

First off, I'm not bashing Kobe. I don't personally like the guy, but I think he gets WAY too much blame/hate from the media as it is.

But just for the sake of comparison, Kobe didn't take a MUCH more talented Laker team to the playoffs either. LeBron has no one on the level of Lamar Odom. Big Z is decent, but he doesn't really do anything well. Not to mention the the Lakers have another guy that could put up 20 on any given night in Caron Butler. I'm not saying that the Lakers had an abundance of talent last season, but they had much more than the Cavs and Kobe Bryant in his prime didn't help them avoid the lottery.

And yet I still think Kobe is one of the five best players in the league and a lock for the hall of fame.

 

[bigbadred00]

Honestly with considering age, I'd want Leborn over any player in the league. He's just that good. Yeah maybe he couldn't lead his team to the playoffs, but he did have some pretty crappy help. Other than Z, noone on his team has ever done anything. Neuble, McInnis, etc. are crap. Now with so much money under the cap they can build around the guy. It's not like Lebron was put onto a good team, he was put into a crappy environment much like Jordan or others in the past. HE's also had a ton of pressure on his back, coming not only from the Media and the fans but from himself.

 

[Nikos]

I am not even so sure that its JUST Lebron's age. I mean Tracy McGrady was just as fantastic as Lebron when he was 21. Had a spectacular year in Orlando. Sure that was year 4 and Lebron was in year 2, but McGrady was much less physically developed than Lebron was coming in.

Either way these guys, Kobe, and Wade are basically the cream of the crop for 2 guards in this league now, and likely for years to come. Vince Carter is probably a slight cut below unless he can get his head and heart on straight. What a talented crew that is.

Lebron might not make HUGE jumps every year, but he should improve all around and eventually get better teamattes.

As it stands Lebron has played great basketball for a 27 year old vet, let alone a 20 year old. Sure his defense can improve, but so can the quality of his teamattes as well.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

There is no argument here Gargamel. There really is none. Criticizing a 20 yr old kid putting up historic numbers for not taking one of the least talented teams in the league (sans him) to the playoffs is just petty...

Edited for accuracy.

 

[thesanityannex]

If LeBron and Kobe had switched teams last year, Lakers make the playoffs, Cavs are still out. LeBron can play team ball, he hasn't been able to yet because his current team sucks. Kobe would be untouchable if he could learn to forget the name on the back of his jersey.

 

[funkykingston]

no historical performances in pressure situations to compare him with MJ/Magic...even Kobe?

He has to have at least enough talent around him before we can have any idea how he fares in pressure situations. We'll get a look this season I'm sure. Larry Hughes is a step in the right direction. Re-signing Big Z is treading water but a necessary step. If I'm a Cavs fan, I'm hoping for one more decent signing (Daniels or Watson would help) but then James has no excuse.

But right now, there's no argument that he's already a top 5 player in the NBA. Hell, if he wins one title in the next seven years, he'd be ahead of Michael Jordan's pace.

I'm willing to give a 20 year old who averages 20, 7, & 7 a little slack. Now, if he can't make the postseason, then maybe we reassess projections that place him in the rarified air of Magic & MJ.