Bibby Likely to Opt Out this Summer

[VF21]

So Ron Artest doesn't count because he's a small forward, even though it's about which 2 players I'd rather have than Mike?

Factoring in contract, age, and defense I'd rather have Kevin than Mike too.

You do realize you MUST have more than two players, right? You didn't say two players you'd rather have than Mike. You said two players on the team right now who are better than Mike.

Ron Artest may be better at defense, but I certainly wouldn't want him as our primary offensive option. And he has nowhere near the court vision that Mike has.

If you think Kevin Martin is BETTER right now than Mike, you're just being silly. I have all the hopes in the world for Martin to succeed beyond our wildest dreams, but we're seeing just the tip of what might be a successful NBA career iceberg right now. He is NOT better than Mike Bibby.

Our problem is with our bigs, not with our guards or our small forward. People who want to fix what isn't broken may have success in NBA video games but they're not gonna do very well in the real NBA.

BTW? hat tyrant was pointing out is the skill set demanded of a successful point guard is totally different than that required of a successful small forward. That was why he said Artest doesn't count.

 

[BMiller52]

Whatever, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[VF21]

Agree to disagree that you cannot decide what you said? What part of my comments do you think are open to more than one interpretation?

 

[BMiller52]

I didn't type what I meant but still I would rather have Martin and Artest than Mike, who I feel is about to get extremely overpaid. Anyway, we'll have to just agree to disagree.

 

[VF21]

And again, why do you think it would come down to either Bibby, Artest or Martin? Present something that substantiates your position and I'll be more inclined to decide whether or not I want to agree to disagree.

What I'm basically doing is challenging you to back up your statements.

 

[nbrans]

I don't think it's "silly" to say that Martin is better than Bibby. It's debatable, but not silly.

 

[VF21]

How do you define better, nbrans? I'm one of the original and strongest supporters of Kevin Martin on this website. I think some day he may make a real mark for himself. But he's not there yet.

A healthy Bibby is feared and respected by most teams in our league, which he should be. Martin is just now garnering more than a casual glance. He still has a long way to go. Does he have the potential to be better than Bibby? Maybe. Will he realize that potential? It would sure be nice. Is he there now? Of course not. He doesn't even have one solid season under his belt yet.

 

[BMiller52]

And again, why do you think it would come down to either Bibby, Artest or Martin? Present something that substantiates your position and I'll be more inclined to decide whether or not I want to agree to disagree.

What I'm basically doing is challenging you to back up your statements.

Let me put it this way. We resemble the Nets, like you have to have one really good frontcourt player to get far. We have a good 1/2/3 just like NJ, but everything can't come from the perimeter. So if we're going to get that big guy, I figure one of them will have to go. And to be honest I'm starting to think of Mike as a no defense chucker instead of the way I used to think of him.

 

[VF21]

Let me put it this way. We resemble the Nets, like you have to have one really good frontcourt player to get far. We have a good 1/2/3 just like NJ, but everything can't come from the perimeter. So if we're going to get that big guy, I figure one of them will have to go. And to be honest I'm starting to think of Mike as a no defense chucker instead of the way I used to think of him.

Okay, that's more like it.



But, if we're like NJ, doesn't that make Bibby like Kidd?

We can agree to disagree about one thing - Mike is not a "no defense chucker"...

 

[nbrans]

How do you define better, nbrans? I'm one of the original and strongest supporters of Kevin Martin on this website. I think some day he may make a real mark for himself. But he's not there yet.

A healthy Bibby is feared and respected by most teams in our league, which he should be. Martin is just now garnering more than a casual glance. He still has a long way to go. Does he have the potential to be better than Bibby? Maybe. Will he realize that potential? It would sure be nice. Is he there now? Of course not. He doesn't even have one solid season under his belt yet.

Well, I don't want to wade too far in because IMHO it's largely apples to oranges because point guards and shooting guards are different and bring different skills, and you'd have to decide if you want to judge on part of a season vs. a career. I will say that if one is better than the other it's not by much. I just don't think Bibby has ever had a 17 game stretch like Kevin's. Bibby brings distribution skills, but he's still a shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body. And last year he averaged 21 points on 43% shooting (16.9 shots per game) whereas Kevin is averaging 21 points on 52% shooting (13.7 shots per game). And while Kevin has his lapses on defenses he's much better than Bibby, and actually has been guarding the guy Bibby should be guarding.

I honestly don't know how I feel either way, I could very well see both sides of the argument. I just don't think the idea that Kevin is better is outlandish. Kevin is the more talented scorer of the two and obviously better on defense, the only way I could see someone saying Bibby is better is his ballhandling and passing.

 

[BMiller52]

Maybe it makes Bibby like Kidd, but Kidd is more well rounded and just a better all around player. But they aren't exactly going to the conference finals even though they're in the east. One of those guys has got to go for a significant front court player if they want to conted. For us the same is true. Would you rather trade Ron/Kev?

 

[VF21]

If it was just about scoring, I might agree with you, nbrans. But players -especially nowadays - have to wear a lot of different hats. I think if you look in Bibby's closet you'll see more hats there than in Martin's closet. Not to say that Kev won't get them, but that he doesn't have them quite yet.

 

[BMiller52]

If it was just about scoring, I might agree with you, nbrans. But players -especially nowadays - have to wear a lot of different hats. I think if you look in Bibby's closet you'll see more hats there than in Martin's closet. Not to say that Kev won't get them, but that he doesn't have them quite yet.

Yeah, Kevin is more efficient but the one thing you gotta give Mike is that he's more polished and has more moves. Then again with Muss, we haven't seen some of Martin's moves(he can get in the lane for a 15 footer off the drive but we hardly ever see that) much.

 

[nbrans]

If it was just about scoring, I might agree with you, nbrans. But players -especially nowadays - have to wear a lot of different hats. I think if you look in Bibby's closet you'll see more hats there than in Martin's closet. Not to say that Kev won't get them, but that he doesn't have them quite yet.

No doubt, I see that side too. Although latley I've been wishing Bibby would put the shooting hat in the closet for a while and start sporting the passing hat.

 

[VF21]

Maybe it makes Bibby like Kidd, but Kidd is more well rounded and just a better all around player. But they aren't exactly going to the conference finals even though they're in the east. One of those guys has got to go for a significant front court player if they want to conted. For us the same is true. Would you rather trade Ron/Kev?

I don't buy into your premise, BMiller52. For that reason, I don't have an answer to your question.

We aren't privy to Petrie's thought process. We don't know what he has planned. People keep making erroneous assumptions, such as believing that Petrie actually looked upon this team at the beginning of the season as a completed project. He didn't and he doesn't... Looking at the roster, with the expiring contracts, makes that pretty obvious.

As a reminder, it took him a couple of years to build the first TEAM. And that was with the luxury of being able to go after some players while staying under the radar. That luxury no longer exists.

 

[Smills91]

I too see it unlikely that Mike opts out, but it's not out of the question. He has played poorly so far this season(injury has a lot to do with that). But look at Peja, he had a down year and still CASHED out. However, if Mike opted out, it might actually be beneficially for both the Kings AND Bibby.

Bibby might opt out just to re-work his contract. While his contract is back heavy, maybe he'll take a pay cut in those two year to have a more balanced long term contract.

For instance, Bibby makes about 27-28 million over the next 2 years. Maybe he'll take a 6 year deal for 60 million dollars. Kings can re-work it so it either descends in value OR make it straight 10 million a year for 6 years? The numbers are just arbitrary, but I think you see my point. Restructuring Bibby's deal may give the Kings more cap flexibilty AND allow Bibby to be locked up long term at a high rate.

I think that's more likely than Bibby, jumping ship. He's one player that truly does enjoy being in Sacramento and has a good relationship with the franchise.

 

[tyrant]

ok. this isnt a debate about which one of our wing players is the best. we have all 3. staying on topic, bibby should not go because we were the best team in the league when we had a big man that could play defense and do more than shoot 3-pointers.

 

[Venom]

If I look at this strategically, I think that Petrie has been preparing for Bibby to opt out for a while now. The Douby pick could be construed as insurance against Bibby leaving, as is the Salmons signing. We desparately needed frontcourt help, but nothing truly tantalizing was available, so Petrie waited. There will be some good talent on the FA market at the 4/5, the draft is loaded, and we're solid at the PG spot even without Bibby. Unless someone bowls Petrie over, Bibby stays past the deadline, then walks at the end of the year.

Health issues aside, how do we know where Musselman thinks Bibby fits? Bibby was a gem of a player in that hybrid Princeton set under Adelman, but Musselman stresses defense and we need a distributor with scoring options like Artest and Martin.

 

[Rockmeister]

The Douby pick could be construed as insurance against Bibby leaving, as is the Salmons signing.

Please, tell me that signing Douby was insurance just in case Bibby leaves. I have not been impressed with Douby.

 

[Viking]

2. I don't even want to think about when "they're" all gone. I sure wish the Kings or the NBA would come out with a DVD set of the 2002-2003 Kings.

part of me wants that and part of me kinda wishes i could forget them, or that they werent so special to watch. something so awesome has too many bad memories

 

[BJax24]

looking at the facts, i believe that mike bibby will opt out of his contract this summer...

bibby and his agent put that opt out clause in the contract for a very good reason... they knew he would be hitting his prime at 28 years old and they wanted an opt out clause to capitalize on that... at 30 years old, he would be considered "Old" in NBA terms...

bibby will be 28 years old this summer... a prime age for NBA free agents... he is just hitting his prime and premium point guards are highly sought after in NBA free agency... if chauncey billups re-signs with detroit, bibby will be the prime free agent point guard on the market... he could probably get 5 years/ $70mil or more in free agency this summer....

if he were not to opt out of his contract this summer, he would not be a free agent until 2009, when he will be 30 years old... and at 30 years old, teams become hesitant to sign players, considered to be on the down side of his careers, to big long term contracts....

i am not saying that he won't re-sign with the kings for a bigger, long term contract, but i think he will opt out this summer, in order to get a long term contract... if bibby does opt out, there are a few course of actions the kings can do...

1) Allow him to opt out, freeing up a lot of cap space, the kings would be 10-12mil under the cap if bibby opts-out.... the kings can persue some free agent big men like Anderson V. of Cavs or Darko Milicic.. then trade or sign a FA point guard

2) Trade him before the trade deadline this February... they could possibly land a big man with this trade to a contender, looking for the missing piece, i.e. Cleveland... or possilby to Minnesota along with Miller for Garnett????

3) Make a trade for a backup point guard as insurance for Bibby's possible departure, i.e. Earl Watson of Sonics

4) Sign him to an contract extension before he can test the free agent market... sign to a 5 year/70 mil extension, before he can get away

this could be a long season if the kings continue to play the way they have been lately... it could be an even longer off season if bibby opts-out of his contract...

and that is the exact reason why we should ship out mike bibby when we have the chance it will be better than him opting out an going straight to socal and playing with kobe and the lakers(which is closer to home)and were left with nothing...

 

[ezekielbear]

Apperently, a few people heard Carmike Dave on KHTK say that he's heard from a couple people close with Bibby and the Kings that he will opt out...

So, take it for what it's worth.

 

[Kings113]

I'd be okay with Bibby opting out if we can get Billups . Which I'm not sure about with the cap/money situation. Guy is a damn stud, and has really become one of my favorite players.

Anyhow, sooner or later, I think were gonna have to get a very solid PG that can at least stay in front of people.

That's partly what the Mavs started to do with letting Nash go, or at least eventually came to be. Then getting Terry. Not near a major part, but a key detail, in the Mavs slowly getting better defensively. While not a stand-out defender, Terry is at least quick enough to stay with his man. Having the significant length helps too.

Same goes for Tony Parker with the Spurs. Aside from being with a defensive-minded team, Parker has the quickness to keep up with his man on defense. Actually have seen him play a few long stretches of really good defense - specifically on Steve Nash in the 2005 WCF.

 

[rumpled]

He'd be trading his last two years (what, about 25 million) for that next contract. It doesn't seem to me like he could get a 5 yr 70 mill new deal. On the other hand, those "I can't believe he got that much" contracts get signed every year.

I really like Bibby and what he brings to a team. But that's mostly scoring, thats not a secret. On the other hand, there's an endless supply of energetic youngsters (like Ronnie Price maybe) willing to play some hard D and just pass the ball for "cheap". Would the team really be _that_ much worse if there was no Bibby? Seems like his 16-20 points could be made up for by the other guy's getting more shots. And that's really about it, the 16-20 points. Well, that and we wouldn't have his clutch shooting for our next deep playoff run.

Salary cap= 65 million per year.
Bibby = 12 million/year
Price = 500k ?

Man, nothing kills the mood faster than math. I should put something like "Capspace to sign your new breakout player and another free agent - Priceless" but it wouldn't really be funny.