Different posters with very similar avatars!
Ben McLemore
- Thread starter Kingsfan23
- Start date
Different posters with very similar avatars!
macadocious
Starter
Oh Jeez, and they both have kingsfan as part of their username. SOMEONE NEEDS TO FIX THAT!
K
KingsFan80
Guest
What? I never said we shouldn't trade him? I just said if the FO plans on trading him we should now because of his stock. I think you are confusing mine and another persons posts?
Peter_Gibbons
Starter
It would be nice to keep him on a cheap contract. But that is unlikely as I remember hearing something about his "handlers" wanting him to leave the Kings and get money somewhere else.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Yes!
Assuming a draftee or FA pickup is going to better than Ben would be ignoring recent history. Let it happen first. Otherwise, we are giving away players for nothing...again.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Very true. He may not want to come back anyways. But I don't think it's safe to assume we will be better off without him just yet, given the Kings track record of finding SGs.
jcassio
Starter
If trading Ben can get us anything of value (forget the late 2nd round pick), I'm happy to take that risk.
I wish him luck and hope he succeeds in the NBA.
Malachi has more potential than Ben, although he's not quite the athlete that Ben is. But I'll take Malachi over Ben 99 times out of 100, and I'll plug him in as next year's likely starter at SG. With Temple, Bogs will be the #1 or #2 backup SG next year, if he signs with us. If he doesn't, we're still set at SG for next year.
I wish him luck and hope he succeeds in the NBA.
Malachi has more potential than Ben, although he's not quite the athlete that Ben is. But I'll take Malachi over Ben 99 times out of 100, and I'll plug him in as next year's likely starter at SG. With Temple, Bogs will be the #1 or #2 backup SG next year, if he signs with us. If he doesn't, we're still set at SG for next year.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Isaiah Thomas just called ...
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Conference call with Hassan Whiteside
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Tyreke Evans and Seth Curry are waiting on the other lines.
jcwkings
All-Star
Out of those four only Whiteside "needed to go" in the sense he was a total non factor in this league and wouldnt be until after stints overseas and in the D league. The other three(Thomas to a much bigger extent) are/were valuable young pieces on cheap contracts. Like seriously IT at 7 million? That is the easiest decision you ever had to make. Its like we find diamonds in the rough( what small markets need to do) but we dont know what we have. We prod at the few things guys cant do instead of all the things they do well. Larry Bird aint walking through that door folks, when you find talent you freaking keep it.
I've never doubted Ben's talent, personally. I got to a point late last season when I started to feel like he wasn't ever going to put it together mentally, but the talent to be at least a steady starting SG who can pour in shots from all over the floor when he gets hot has always been there. This puts us in an awkward position because we already have 4 years and a high lotto pick invested in Ben but we also have Malachi and Bogdan coming in on cheaper deals. Looking at how much a player like Allan Crabbe signed for last summer (4yrs/$75 million) it seems likely that the price tag to bring Ben back as a Restricted Free Agent is going to be big enough to cause all of us to break out in a sweat if we match. The alternative is losing another lottery pick for nothing right when he may be starting to get it and start the cycle all over again with another unproven youngster instead. But then I don't want to pay him $18 million a year either. Not an easy decision.
I'm inclined to keep him if he's being productive and hope his overall resume so far keeps his price tag reasonable. We're always going to need players who can knock down shots, especially with Cousins playing a point Center role now, and Ben's issue offensively has always been consistency not ability -- his monthly shooting splits have been crazy hot and cold for the past 3 years. As much as I like Temple (and I know I'm going to get flack for this) I think the smarter move may be to trade Temple at the deadline for cap space and a future pick, trade Koufos for the same and clear 16 million off the cap for this summer. Neither player is essential to our playoff chances this season anyway and I feel like both would have a lot of value for contending teams with holes in their lineups. This is a complete reversal of the way I felt just a month ago (Keep Cousins, Temple, Casspi and the rookies -- trade everyone else) but circumstances have changed somewhat. I don't know what's going to happen with Rudy this summer, but I figure between Ben, Malachi, and Bogdan we've got the outline of a decent wing rotation just lacking one elite starter and we'll need a truckload of cap space if we're hoping to bring in a starting PG or SF in free agency at the current rates.
I'm inclined to keep him if he's being productive and hope his overall resume so far keeps his price tag reasonable. We're always going to need players who can knock down shots, especially with Cousins playing a point Center role now, and Ben's issue offensively has always been consistency not ability -- his monthly shooting splits have been crazy hot and cold for the past 3 years. As much as I like Temple (and I know I'm going to get flack for this) I think the smarter move may be to trade Temple at the deadline for cap space and a future pick, trade Koufos for the same and clear 16 million off the cap for this summer. Neither player is essential to our playoff chances this season anyway and I feel like both would have a lot of value for contending teams with holes in their lineups. This is a complete reversal of the way I felt just a month ago (Keep Cousins, Temple, Casspi and the rookies -- trade everyone else) but circumstances have changed somewhat. I don't know what's going to happen with Rudy this summer, but I figure between Ben, Malachi, and Bogdan we've got the outline of a decent wing rotation just lacking one elite starter and we'll need a truckload of cap space if we're hoping to bring in a starting PG or SF in free agency at the current rates.
Telemachus
Starter
I think we should try to trade Ben to Chicago for the rights of our pick this season. Don't know if they would be interested or not, but it is worth a try.
upinsmoke
All-Star
The Sacramento Kings should NEVER trade for cap space. NEVER. Temple shouldn't be involved in any deal short of an absolute no brainer, slam dunk, if you don't like that you don't like nba basketball type of offer.
Why would they trade for that if they can just sit back and sign Ben in FA and have that pic fall to them?
Telemachus
Starter
There is no guarantee they could sign Ben in FA. Make the trade and they have more control in that area. And there is a chance they lose out on the pick anyway.
allrightythen
Starter
I'd probably prefer to trade him but he is still a tantalizing mix of age and talent. Watching that quick release and seeing him moving without the ball, you see a great compliment to Cousins. Unfortunately we've seen him have good stretches in the past only to fizzle out. Since being drafted he has been the model of inconsistency and the downs have been much more frequent and longer lasting than the ups. I see his talent I'm just not convinced he can maintain it though. In the back of my mind there is a little voice that I probably shouldn't trust that says "but it's different now! Coach Joerger has him doing all the right things! He can maintain it now!" I'm glad I'm not a Kings exec and have to figure out if this is Ben growing and learning and getting better or simply his yearly temporary upswing.
Here's my argument: What we've completely failed at for the past 10 years is long-term planning. Put aside your emotional gut reaction to how Garrett Temple has improved this team right now. Re-signing Ben (or not) is a long-term decision. He's 24 years old, if he's a piece of the puzzle for us we can count on him filling a role for the next 4 years at least. I can understand both sides of that argument, but it's a decision that really needs to be pondered because letting him go right now could end up impacting us the same way letting all these other players leave has. Keeping Temple (or not) only effects the next 2 years though. If his 8 million is the difference between making a competitive offer for Jrue Holiday this summer or riding into next season with no PG, are you going to tell me we absolutely need Temple on this team next year? Re-signing Ben will wipe out that 8 million and then some but that's why it becomes an either/or situation. Keeping Koufos and Temple likely means we won't be able to do much besides re-sign our own players.
The thing is, I love Temple as a player and as an all-around good guy, this isn't about trying to get of him. We're not going to get much if anything for trading Ben right now because he has an expiring contract. Temple being a solid productive vet signed to a reasonable deal has positive trade value. We wouldn't be dumping him for cap space, we would be trading him for a future pick, cap space, and more minutes in the rotation for the young guys we've already committed picks to. That draft pick represents another young player on a cost-controlled 4 year deal which is going to become very important for us once DeMarcus' expected 40 million per year plus extension kicks in and we suddenly find ourselves fighting the salary cap every year. I don't see the point of doubling down on mediocrity. We can all pretty much agree that we need more talent to actually be competitive. How do you expect us to get it if we can't even afford to sign a starting caliber player in free agency? Koufos and Temple made a lot of sense at the time they were signed. I think trading both of them makes more sense for the situation we're in now -- a borderline playoff team with a 26 year old All-NBA superstar and a good coach trying to build themselves up into a solid contender.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I see the approach you are taking with Ben. I do...however, let's wait until the end of the season and see if Joerger has managed to turn Ben into not just a serviceable player, but a consistent player. We know Ben has had three different head coaches since entering the league, no stability, no development. Joerger arrives and after 30-40 games, we are seeing life out of him. He has even started using a floater, which he never makes. With Temple, he won't spread the floor for you on a consistent basis but he is our best wing defender and if the choice is between the two at the end of the season, that falls on what Vlade values more around his centerpiece. Defense or shooting.
DesertFox
Starter
You give him Ben a qualifying offer if he keeps playing anywhere close to this level for the rest of the season. In that case I think it's 50/50 someone offers Ben something more than the team should be willing to match, but at least the Kings will have that option. Maybe squeeze a 2nd round pick out in a sign and trade, which is what we were hoping to get for him anyway.
It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Ben on a 5-6 million dollar expiring deal. In terms of the roster crunch, Bogdan can slide into Afflalo's spot, and at least one of Gay/Casspi won't be back.
It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Ben on a 5-6 million dollar expiring deal. In terms of the roster crunch, Bogdan can slide into Afflalo's spot, and at least one of Gay/Casspi won't be back.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Still playing well. 3pt% looking pretty good right now. .378 for the season. Going up every season. Same age as Hield and putting up similar shooting numbers. Just saying..... Sometimes it takes stability and some seasoning.
He's all but gone now, so another team will reap the benefits.
He's all but gone now, so another team will reap the benefits.
ockingsfan
Starter
I think Ben will continue to have a good basketball renaissance.
His best games has always come with DMC and Gay out of the line up in the past.
He got too timid with 2 big scorers on the floor with him.
I think he will flourish in this new system. There is no reason he can't become a Kent Bazemore type SG/SF player for us.
The problem will come in the summer when we will need to re-sign him!
His best games has always come with DMC and Gay out of the line up in the past.
He got too timid with 2 big scorers on the floor with him.
I think he will flourish in this new system. There is no reason he can't become a Kent Bazemore type SG/SF player for us.
The problem will come in the summer when we will need to re-sign him!
allrightythen
Starter
With all the craziness we have at SG I think he is one of the odd men out (there should be 4 of them) but I hope we are able to get something for him. I'm getting frustrated with seeing value leave for little return.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Logjam at SG is:
Mclemore
Hield
Malachi
*Bogdonovic
Temple doesn't have a position
Tyreke doesn't have a position.
So if Ben continues this pace for the remainder, he will be shooting 40% from 3. What we always begged for is shooters.
Why do we let Ben go in favor of Malachi or Bogdonovic? Cheaper salary for Malachi, but you are gambling that he will be effective in the future. You don't get the salary savings with Bogdonovic if I'm not mistaken. And we don't yet know what Bogdonovic will be. No one does. So is this just a case of moving on from Ben to change it up? Or is it really obvious that we'd be better off without him?
Mclemore
Hield
Malachi
*Bogdonovic
Temple doesn't have a position
Tyreke doesn't have a position.
So if Ben continues this pace for the remainder, he will be shooting 40% from 3. What we always begged for is shooters.
Why do we let Ben go in favor of Malachi or Bogdonovic? Cheaper salary for Malachi, but you are gambling that he will be effective in the future. You don't get the salary savings with Bogdonovic if I'm not mistaken. And we don't yet know what Bogdonovic will be. No one does. So is this just a case of moving on from Ben to change it up? Or is it really obvious that we'd be better off without him?
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ockingsfan
Starter
Ben is still only 24 years old. I would keep Ben and trade Temple, if it came down to the two of them.
While I love Temple's heart, he is 30 years old and Ben has a much higher ceiling.
I think Ben can play the 3, if Buddy Hield is your 2. Or Ben can be a super sub between 2/3 swing position.
I don't think you let him go after developing him for so many years, just as he's starting to find himself.
roasthawg
Starter
If it came down to those two I'd take Temple I think... His locker room presence is probably enough to make up for Ben's higher upside on the court. With Buddy and Malachi and bogdan Ben is pretty repetitive at this point.
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